WAR IN ISRAEL — PROPHECY

[Zao is life]

First, I know I was not involved in this discussion between yourself and @David in NJ but I found it intriguing. Before someone tries to cut me short, hear me out.

I’ve looked at that specific scripture and though I have an opinion, I’ve never settled it fully beyond a reasonable doubt. Let me explain.

The first reason:
Rev 21:1 specifies in the NHNE there was no more sea. In apocalyptic terms, the sea was the nations of the world filled with peoples, tongues, tribes etc. The theme, there was no more sea, would be understood by that example as Christ reigning and the Kingdom(s) of the world are now his. The stone made without hands grows to a giant mountain filling the whole earth. In Rev 16:20, every isle and mountain fled away at the 7th bowl which happens in his millennial kingdom when he begins to reign at the 7th trumpet, not after he reigns 1k years.

The second reason:
Rev 21:2 mentions John seeing the New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven prepared as a Bride. That event seems to happen at the 7th Trumpet when Christ reigns before the 1k years because Rev 19:6-8 says she was made ready and wore fine linen. It would be out of place to suggest the Bride doesn’t descend from Heaven till after the 1k year reign.

The third reason:
Rev 22:8-9 show John bowing to the messenger and repeating a specific phrase after he was shown the Bride, the New Jerusalem. He repeats the event which he was shown earlier in Rev 19:10 of the Bride when she was ready. Simply, in Rev 19 John sees the Bride and adds more detail about that vision in another chapter. That would make the context of the Bride in Rev 21 and Rev 22 happen after the 7th Trumpet putting the NHNE at that time and not 1k years later.

Now, I have 2 other reasons but I will not post them because they are more opinion based than can be proved with scripture so I will omit them.

When Rev 21:4 is viewed in this light, there is conflict. And obviously, there cannot be conflict in scripture as I prefer truth and sound logic to refute falsehood. So, if we are told “there shall be no more death”, does the translation have in view immediately at that time or forward from that time to something coming future; as in after the 1k year reign. (I don’t want to debate Premill and Amill positions but just to ascertain ideas)
If we accept that it means there will be no death at that moment, how do we understand the other 3 examples I gave that imho conflict?
I realize death cannot be defeated till after the 1k year reign per Rev 20:14
That would strongly imply Rev 21:4 takes place in a NHNE after the reign. Or does “there shall be no more death” imply a time after that when death is thrown into the Lake of Fire?

I’ve looked at various commentaries and honestly, I’m not satisfied when viewing each of the verses in Rev 21:1-4. What do you think @David in NJ and @Fullness of the Gentiles

It's confusing, and and I know that God will only give me the full understanding of it when He wills to, and if I ask for it. I don't know who has the full understanding already, nor do I know who 'thinks' he fully understands yet doesn't. All I know is that I don't fully understand.

Here's what seems to be a contradiction (not that there is ever a contradiction in scripture, but it seems to me to be, because I don't fully understand):

What's said about the bride in Rev 21 seems to correlate with Revelation 19 - BUT In the new heavens and new earth, the sea no longer is, and the sea is there until it delivers up the dead in them at the close of the thousand years, at the time of the GWT:-

THE BRIDE

2 And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband. --Rev 21

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. --Rev 19

14 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. --Rev 7

4 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away. --Rev 21

8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. -- Rev 21

14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. -- Rev 20

6 And a sea of glass was in front of the throne, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind. Rev 4

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire. And those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. --Rev 15.

3 saying, Do not hurt the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. --Rev 7

13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. --Rev 20

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is. --Rev 21

In the new heavens and new earth, the sea no longer is. There is also no more death. So it can only come after the thousand years have ended.

It would be easy if the thousand years commenced before the defeat of the beast mentioned in chapter 19. But it does not. The text makes it very obvious that it does not. Those who have the seal of God on the foreheads will not worship the beast. The beast has to be there before anyone can be killed for not receiving its/his mark.

It would also be easy if the New Testament epistles were full of assurances that Satan is currently bound. But the opposite is the case. The epistles are full of warnings about Satan the prince of the power of the air roaming the earth full of wiles who we need to resist in with the full armor of God.

 

[Zao is life]

Oh, good Lord. <eyeroll> Goodness gracious. Okay, do you want to join with me in ministering the Word to each other?

Grace and peace to you.

Respectfully,

Do you come here just to troll, or to discuss scripture?

Because so far in this thread I've only seen you troll.

 

[DavidTaylor]

When did JESUS literally stand on the Mount of Olives and cause a literal splitting of the mountains for the fleeing Israelites?

When did JESUS go forth and literally fight the literal nations that came against Israel?

John 8:1 “Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.”

Acts 4:25 “Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.”

John 3:
“Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”

 

[PinSeeker]

Respectfully, Do you come here just to troll, or to discuss scripture? Because so far in this thread I've only seen you troll.

To me, that calls into question your seeing abilities.

I really don't think anything I've said meets the criteria of "trolling," but rather calling out the dodges for what they are. Look back at some of the things David has said to me. You should see that all he's done is dodge my attempts to engage in earnest discussion, preaching at me in at least somewhat of a scornful, belittling manner. So, yeah, that's fine; I don't really care, but it is what it is. And, I think in a pretty respectful way, I've called him out on it. Me trolling? No.

I said before ~ and to you specifically ~ I'm delighted to discuss scripture. Even in my reply to him that you quoted, I said ~ using his own words ~ "...do you want to join with me in ministering the Word to each other?" And that's trolling to you? Nope. At any rate, so far in response all I've heard is crickets ~ from both you and David. Respectfully speaking, of course.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Marty fox]

so when did Jesus stand on the mount of Olives. When he he split it in two. When were NATIONS gathered against Jerusalem?

In Jesus day not only was Jerusalem a Roman province.. Only rome surrounded and attacked her (in 70 AD) not nations.

non of the events in zech 14 have happened yet

Rome was made of many concurred nations.

The bible records Jesus on the mount of olives many times that's why Matthew chapter 24 is also called the Olivet Discourse.

See post #103 above.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Rome was made of many concurred nations.

The bible records Jesus on the mount of olives many times that's why Matthew chapter 24 is also called the Olivet Discourse.

See post #103 above.

The passage says he will go against the nations.. when did that happen?

it says the mountain will split in 2 when did that happen.

it says there will be a new valley. When did that happen.

Jesus was probably on the mount many times.. But that is not what the prophecy said

 

[marks]

The passage says he will go against the nations.. when did that happen?

it says the mountain will split in 2 when did that happen.

it says there will be a new valley. When did that happen.

Jesus was probably on the mount many times.. But that is not what the prophecy said

All nations, actually. That's one of my observations that tells me this hasn't been fulfilled yet. And the valley thing would be pretty hard to miss!

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

John 8:1 “Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.”

Acts 4:25 “Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.”

John 3:
“Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”

He went to the Mt. of Olives in His First Advent as the suffering Servant = therefore Zechariah ch14 is His 2nd Coming as KING

 

[Marty fox]

The passage says he will go against the nations.. when did that happen?

it says the mountain will split in 2 when did that happen.

it says there will be a new valley. When did that happen.

Jesus was probably on the mount many times.. But that is not what the prophecy said

We will get nowhere if you can’t see past literalism because I’m speaking spirituality

Tell me when did living water flow out from Jerusalem?

Spiritually it happened on the day of Pentecost it was the Holy Spirit through jews from every nation

John 7
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Do you notice that from Zachariah chapters 12-14 it repeatedly says “on that day”? It also repeatedly mentions first advent events. Thus “on that day” is the time around the first advent and much of it is symbolic.

For example to show that most of it is symbolism how can chapter 12 show Jerusalem as an unmovable rock and chapter 14 as a besieged destroyed city? Because one is a literal city and the other is the New Jerusalem the church

 

[No Pre-TB]

BUT In the new heavens and new earth, the sea no longer is, and the sea is there until it delivers up the dead in them at the close of the thousand years, at the time of the GWT:

This is an excellent point. And again, I can’t unsee the comparisons between Rev 19 and Rev 21 as well as Rev 19 and Rev 22. But, that is still a valid point just as much as there being no more death in v.4 and that cannot happen till after the 1k year reign.

Here is a question then.

How can John witness the bride coming with Christ and his advent, being ready/worthy/married in Rev 19 and also descending from heaven 1k years after the reign in Rev 21:1 ? I find that very odd and out of place. If that can be reconciled, perhaps all will fit into place. Though, I’d also need a logical reason why John worships the angel in Rev 19 and 22 twice; though I strongly believe it’s the same event linked. This is most difficult!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We will get nowhere if you can’t see past literalism because I’m speaking spirituality

we wont get no where as long as you speak spiritually. because I am speaking prophecy. Not symbolic imagery

Tell me when did living water flow out from Jerusalem?

Spiritually it happened on the day of Pentecost it was the Holy Spirit through jews from every nation

so we are supposed to look at prophecy. where Gopd says when you see this happen, you will know I am the lord your God. and take this to mean it came true?

How is the world to witness this as true?

John 7
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Do you notice that from Zachariah chapters 12-14 it repeatedly says “on that day”? It also repeatedly mentions first advent events. Thus “on that day” is the time around the first advent and much of it is symbolic.

For example to show that most of it is symbolism how can chapter 12 show Jerusalem as an unmovable rock and chapter 14 as a besieged destroyed city? Because one is a literal city and the other is the New Jerusalem the church

ON THIS DAY.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward [e]the eastern sea
And half of them toward [f]the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.

10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. [g]Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.


11 The people shall dwell in it; And no longer shall there be utter destruction, But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall [h]dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

13 It shall come to pass in that day That a great panic from the Lord will be among them. Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand; 14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain

so when in history did this take place..Thats alot of spiritual imagery here. in one day.. when did all this take place? and who is supposed to look to God and say God can prophecy and these things happen JUST as god said they would..

 

[Zao is life]

This is an excellent point. And again, I can’t unsee the comparisons between Rev 19 and Rev 21 as well as Rev 19 and Rev 22. But, that is still a valid point just as much as there being no more death in v.4 and that cannot happen till after the 1k year reign.

Here is a question then.

How can John witness the bride coming with Christ and his advent, being ready/worthy/married in Rev 19 and also descending from heaven 1k years after the reign in Rev 21:1 ? I find that very odd and out of place. If that can be reconciled, perhaps all will fit into place. Though, I’d also need a logical reason why John worships the angel in Rev 19 and 22 twice; though I strongly believe it’s the same event linked. This is most difficult!

Yes, I agree with you, especially because the angel John worships is the same angel who showed him the harlot, the beast, and the ten kings:

Rev.17:1 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials came and talked with me, saying to me, Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on many waters ​

Rev.21:9-10 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.​

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God,

Rev.19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, Stop! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.​

Rev.22:7 Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he who keeps the sayings of the prophecy of this Book.​

8 And I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things.

Rev.16:15 Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.​

16 And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev.13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.​

Rev.20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.​

Rev.14:9-12 And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.​

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

It will already be known whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life when the population is divided between those who worship the beast or receive his mark/number of his name and those who don't, and are killed for it.

Rev.20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Besides this,

"They are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them. They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat.​

For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.​

To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes." (Rev.7:15-17 combined with Rev.21:3-8).​

​

But the sea that will deliver up the dead in them to be judged at the GWT, no longer exists when John sees the NHNE. The only way this can happen is if the thousand years and the NHNE commence together. But that will push the GWT to the time of the return of Christ, i.e the close of Rev.19, like Amillennialists have it.

JUDGMENT OF GOG

Ezekiel 39
17 And you, son of man, So says the Lord Jehovah. Speak to the bird of every wing, and to every beast of the field: Gather yourselves and come; gather yourselves from all around to My sacrifice that I sacrifice for you, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, so that you may eat flesh and drink blood.
18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty and drink the blood of the rulers of the earth, of rams, lambs, goats, and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And you shall eat fat until you are full, and drink blood until you are drunk, of My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 And you shall be filled at My table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, all the men of war, says the Lord Jehovah.
21 And I will set My glory among the nations, and all the nations shall see My judgments which I have done, and My hand that I have laid on them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one angel standing in the sun. And he cried with a great voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together to the supper of the great God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses, and those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.

Except that Gog's armies only gather at the close of the thousand years in the Revelation, but the thousand years is marked by the reign of those who did not receive the mark of the beast.

God hasn't given me the full understanding. I'm satisfied with that. Personally I think there's something - some little something - that all of us are missing, pre-mils, a-mils and post-mils. All of us.

 

[PinSeeker]

we wont get no where as long as you speak spiritually. because I am speaking prophecy. Not symbolic imagery

Ummmm...

That is the single greatest message board quote I think I have ever heard. I mean, not all prophecy in the Bible contains symbolic imagery, but much of it certainly does, and that prophecy cannot be credibly talked about without acknowledging it. Yeah, that is just a... "great" ... quote. And the "we wont get no where" part just makes it all the better...

SIGH...

Oh. Now...

God hasn't given me the full understanding. I'm satisfied with that. Personally I think there's something - some little something - that all of us are missing, pre-mils, a-mils and post-mils. All of us.

Now, this really is a great quote. Yes, at least some little something... God's thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways not our ways (Isaiah 55). His knowledge is high; we cannot attain to it (Psalm 139). Yes, a little something...

Grace and peace to both of you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Ummmm...

That is the single greatest message board quote I think I have ever heard. I mean, not all prophecy in the Bible contains symbolic imagery, but much of it certainly does, and that prophecy cannot be credibly talked about without acknowledging it. Yeah, that is just a... "great" ... quote. And the "we wont get no where" part just makes it all the better...

SIGH...

Oh. Now...


Now, this really is a great quote. Yes, at least some little something... God's thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways not our ways (Isaiah 55). His knowledge is high; we cannot attain to it (Psalm 139). Yes, a little something...

Grace and peace to both of you.

Hehe.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, I agree with you, especially because the angel John worships is the same angel who showed him the harlot, the beast, and the ten kings:

Rev.17:1 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials came and talked with me, saying to me, Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on many waters ​

Rev.21:9-10 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.​

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God,

Rev.19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, Stop! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.​

Rev.22:7 Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he who keeps the sayings of the prophecy of this Book.​

8 And I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things.

Rev.16:15 Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.​

16 And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev.13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.​

Rev.20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.​

Rev.14:9-12 And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.​

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

It will already be known whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life when the population is divided between those who worship the beast or receive his mark/number of his name and those who don't, and are killed for it.

Rev.20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Besides this,

"They are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them. They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat.​

For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.​

To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes." (Rev.7:15-17 combined with Rev.21:3-8).​

​

But the sea that will deliver up the dead in them to be judged at the GWT, no longer exists when John sees the NHNE. The only way this can happen is if the thousand years and the NHNE commence together. But that will push the GWT to the time of the return of Christ, i.e the close of Rev.19, like Amillennialists have it.

JUDGMENT OF GOG

Ezekiel 39
17 And you, son of man, So says the Lord Jehovah. Speak to the bird of every wing, and to every beast of the field: Gather yourselves and come; gather yourselves from all around to My sacrifice that I sacrifice for you, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, so that you may eat flesh and drink blood.
18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty and drink the blood of the rulers of the earth, of rams, lambs, goats, and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And you shall eat fat until you are full, and drink blood until you are drunk, of My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 And you shall be filled at My table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, all the men of war, says the Lord Jehovah.
21 And I will set My glory among the nations, and all the nations shall see My judgments which I have done, and My hand that I have laid on them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one angel standing in the sun. And he cried with a great voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together to the supper of the great God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses, and those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.

Except that Gog's armies only gather at the close of the thousand years in the Revelation, but the thousand years is marked by the reign of those who did not receive the mark of the beast.

God hasn't given me the full understanding. I'm satisfied with that. Personally I think there's something - some little something - that all of us are missing, pre-mils, a-mils and post-mils. All of us.

Your statement below is throwing you off.

@Fullness of the Gentiles says: "But the sea that will deliver up the dead in them to be judged at the GWT, no longer exists when John sees the NHNE. The only way this can happen is if the thousand years and the NHNE commence together. But that will push the GWT to the time of the return of Christ, i.e the close of Rev.19, like Amillennialists have it."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wrong time

Zechariah 14 was fulfilled in first coming of Christ. It tells us about the fall of Old Testament congregation. Making the way for remnants to flee into the New Testament congregation where Christians observe the feast of tabernacle since Pentecost.

Nothing to do with current war in Israel today.

Well Zechariah 14 still needs to be fulfilled. I ask, are you one who believes Israel as a nation is done and the church has forever taken its place?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ummmm...

That is the single greatest message board quote I think I have ever heard. I mean, not all prophecy in the Bible contains symbolic imagery, but much of it certainly does, and that prophecy cannot be credibly talked about without acknowledging it. Yeah, that is just a... "great" ... quote. And the "we wont get no where" part just makes it all the better...

SIGH...

Oh. Now...

Even the symolic parts represent a literal event or thing (like the 4 Beasts of Daniel)

If you remove literal interpretation from all prophecy in all instances. You destroy the purpose of prophecy

Laugh all you want dude..

 

[PinSeeker]

Even the symbolic parts represent a literal event or thing (like the 4 Beasts of Daniel)

Sure they do. And sometimes the relationship is one to many, rather than one to one. But sure, that's... basically the definition of symbolism. To denounce symbolic interpretations as "allegories" ~ or even not literal ~ is terribly misguided.

If you remove literal interpretation from all prophecy in all instances. You destroy the purpose of prophecy

Agreed. But wooden literalism is often the issue.

Laugh all you want dude..

Yes, sorry to have offended, but, well, it was a good laugh. Thanks for that.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Zao is life]

Your statement below is throwing you off.

@Fullness of the Gentiles says: "But the sea that will deliver up the dead in them to be judged at the GWT, no longer exists when John sees the NHNE. The only way this can happen is if the thousand years and the NHNE commence together. But that will push the GWT to the time of the return of Christ, i.e the close of Rev.19, like Amillennialists have it."

I think comparing too many similar statements in the Revelation and in Ezekiel with the Revelation is throwing me off.

Either way, my human mind is throwing me off so I need to do more praying and asking God to give me the understanding.

 

[David in NJ]

I think comparing too many similar statements in the Revelation and in Ezekiel with the Revelation is throwing me off.

Either way, my human mind is throwing me off so I need to do more praying and asking God to give me the understanding.

Always know that i am not against you my Brother - instead i am thinking with and for you in the Word.