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I know, and I don't expect you to always agree with everything I say. That would be boring and just wrong, because it would make you dishonest and will never expose any wrong understanding I may have or you may have.
PS - You have been and are an encouragment and blessing to us here on CBF.
That statement is an encouragement to me. Thank you. Your input (and the input of some others) is also one of the things that always encourage me too.
There is no allegorical interpretation. People characterize it as such, but it's a total mischaracterization... and often is done very purposely and disingenuously. And some just kind of blindly follow suit...
No, allegories may contain symbols from time to time, but allegory and symbolism, in and of themselves, are two very different things, EG.
"Literature is full of symbolism and literary devices with a deeper meaning beyond what the words on the page say. Allegories and symbolism are two such literary devices commonly used in English writing.
Sure, but the point I'm making, and you seem to be voicing agreement with ~ is that, for someone who sees a lot of symbolism in a writing (in this case Revelation), they are not making it into an allegory, so the characterization of it as such is wrong.
Well, the ideas can be abstract, but in this case no. And the "easier to understand" part is not necessarily true, either. In the case of Revelation, I'd say, rather, that the symbolism makes something we really can't understand ~ because we lack a frame of reference for what it really will be like ~ digestible.
And we can get the main point from it, which is that God is always in control, that everything is happening according to His will, and that Jesus wins. This is the blessing that John talks about in Revelation 1:3, that (and I quote) "(b)lessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near."Right, well, there's nothing hidden in John's Revelation. It is a revelation, after all, a revealing. Thus the title of the book...
And even regarding allegory, meaning(s) are not necessarily hidden; Pilgrim's Progress, by John Bunyan, is an allegory of the spiritual journey of Christians. All of us have our Sloughs of Despond from time to time, and all of us know a Worldly Wiseman or two... Maybe instead of 'hidden' we should say a 'deeper,' or 'profound'... meaning. What a great book that is. Makes me want to read it again. An allegory is an expression of truths or generalizations about human existence... which may use symbolic fictional figures and actions in relating those truths or generalizations, but not necessarily.
ALL true but today we have nations who are either supporting terrorism with those Arab nations such as Russia, China and others.
The Thessalonians said the same thing.
I was surprised when I discovered that the Egyptian Pharaoh treated Joseph as one of his own, and gave them land and treated Joseph as one of his own so the Jews packed up everything and moved to Egypt
Why did that surprise you? We don’t know who that pharaoh was, but there’s likelihood that he was not Egyptian. The Hyksos ruled around the time of Joseph. Some refer to them as shepherd kings or foreign kings.
The opposite is cloudy symbolism.
I wouldn't call it "the opposite," really ~ and certainly not "cloudy," but it can obviously seem that way to many ~ but just not false and baseless, as wooden literalism often is, and in the case of John's Revelation very, very often ~ mostly, actually ~ is.
Well, sure, and this is why we should take Paul's advice ~ and I exhort you to do so ~ to always be sober-minded so that we may not turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
I've been to Atlantic City. A fun, nice place.
Although not as much so as it once was...
I doubt that applies to the book of Revelation.
I suppose I will keep poking holes in your clouds with my wooden stick.I wouldn't call it "the opposite," really ~ and certainly not "cloudy," but it can obviously seem that way to many ~ but just not false and baseless, as wooden literalism often is, and in the case of John's Revelation very, very often ~ mostly, actually ~ is.
Well, sure, and this is why we should take Paul's advice ~ and I exhort you to do so ~ to always be sober-minded so that we may not turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
I've been to Atlantic City. A fun, nice place.
Grace and peace to you.
Well, not just today, 2000-plus years after he wrote of what he was shown. And nobody here disagrees with you regarding the literal fulfillments that, then, were still to come. As has been said here many times, the very definition of symbolism is the use of words or images to symbolize literal concepts, people, objects, or events. And again, much of what John "saw" would have many, many iterations ~ and now have had many iterations, with still more to come ~ rather than just one.
No, all events from John's time leading up to the second coming. This is why it was just as relevant to people of the first and second century (and all centuries in between) as it is to us here in the twenty-first ~ and, as John says in Revelation 1:3, a blessing to the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and to all those who hear, and who all those who keep what is written in it.
That's not his point at all, but rather that we should all be secure at all times of the fact that God is in control ~ despite how "government" or anyone else acts or reacts ~ and really despite the schemes and actions of Satan and who seemingly has won ~ and that the outcome is certain: Jesus wins.
And that our eternal future is certain. This is the blessing that John is talking about, and it is for all people of all times.
And I will watch you ~ from a distance, at least ~ continue to grope and poke in the dark.
You know, I read a book once about fishermen in the north Atlantic who would get caught at sea in a storm, and they would be out on deck at night and they would look up and see what they thought were clouds with moonlight hitting them, only to find out very, very quickly that they were really very, very high breaking waves crashing down upon them...
Red Dragon = symbolic of ........
