Was Adam, Eve and Creation "Perfect" or "Very Good"?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is incorrect. It was MORE THAN POSSIBLE for Adam and Eve to obey that commandment.

They had everything they could possibly desire in Eden -- and the best of everything. They even had the fellowship of God in that garden. All it took was to avoid one particular tree in that orchard/garden. And Adam had a responsibility to watch over Eve, which again should have been a pleasure.

If you knew that one tree in your garden had poisonous fruit, you would have it removed, not try and see if that was really true by having one little bite.

I believe you are not listening. God is infallible. If God looked into the future before creating Adam and saw that he would be disobedient as people say since as I said God is infallible then Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient, if he could choose to be obedient after God had already saw he would be disobedient then that would mean God could be proved wrong and it's impossible to prove God wrong so Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient. He couldn't choose to be obedient if God had already seen him to be disobedient if he has that ability or capacity to prove God wrong concerning what God saw before creating him then that means God would be fallible not infallible. I believe God to be infallible. So these people who believe God saw that Angel to become Satan and Adam to be disobedient before creating them are wrong I believe. I also believe that those people who believe in this kind of definition of omniscient to be an arbitrary definition. They have a right to their definitions, beliefs, interpretation of scripture but I don't have to agree with them and because I disagree with them doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.

 

[amadeus]

literal or spiritual here? ty

As I explained once before if I am recalling it correctly, I don't like the word, "literal" here because to me, it could include both the spiritual and the physical... whereas I believe you meant physical or carnal or material.

Now if you used either "carnal" or "physical" in place of "literal" I would better understand your question although the answer is quite another thing...LOL

Physically it would seem to me that they already dying. They had physical flaws or weakness because of the material used to form them. They live nearly a thousand years physically because they were well made at the beginning. Likely the results of coupling [male-female] produced a slightly less than "very good" copy [child] than God did in the beginning. That is all conjecture or speculation, if you will. The spiritual part should have had no limit to its existence based on the information we have about how things wear out [presuming no wear and tear on the spiritual simply because of time]. hat is perhaps the limit time-wise was no limit.

But, how do the two affect each other... that the physical man and the spiritual man? If the spiritual man had not died that day [immediately?], perhaps the physical man would have been able to live longer than the 1000 years [almost] Adam attained. This is presuming that a Living "spiritual me" can or will enable the "physical me" to last longer. I recalled that there were verses related to this and I easily found the following ones using the search word, "long" in the Psalms and Proverbs. I am certain there are others that may express such thing more clearly but... anyway? Some of these may be understood to apply to either one or both types of "me":

"For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.
Thou wilt prolong the king's life: and his years as many generations.
He shall abide before God for ever: O prepare mercy and truth, which may preserve him." Psalm 61:5-7

"The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened." Prov 10:27

"The prince that wanteth understanding is also a great oppressor: but he that hateth covetousness shall prolong his days" Prov 28:16

Then again, the word, "for ever" as used here in the KJV Bible may not always mean unending life.

Also being subject to "death" is likely dependent on exactly what we mean by death and what God means by death. Man's definition is not always equal to God's. The spiritual Adam and Eve which as I see it died when they disobeyed God did not do so because their parts wore out. They were effectively killed because they did that which God told them not to do. They were killed by the Word of God.

I wrote a lot of words here, but wonder how well, if at all, I answered the question?

 

[Helen]

@Nancy
How did I miss this thread!! Only just see it.

I have NOT read any posts yet...I never do when I join a thread late in the day.

I would say re Adam and Eve they were perfect inasmuch as a small apple is green but not yet sweet and matured to full size.
An apple blossom is perfect...but it is not yet an apple.


Now I will go and read this thread and see all the 'wise' answers

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A PERFECT GOD CREATED A PERFECT WORLD. BELIEVE IT.

Only perfect world was (is)built up in Christ? Hebrews 6:1-6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That which is perfect: 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

To even come near to say He who is faithful fails to do it, puts him to open shame. Don’t see this world as “perfect” especially since “this world” is with an determined end...only the world that is to come created to stand (unmovable and unshakable) in Him, a world without end is perfect. How can this world be perfect when there is an end where it passes away?

 

[Enoch111]

How can this world be perfect when there is an end where it passes away?

You seem to be seriously confused. I was speaking about what GOD CREATED in the beginning. And you are talking about a fallen world after the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

We should never confuse the two. when God said that everything He had created was "VERY GOOD", a perfect God did indeed create a perfect universe. And when the New Heavens and the New Earth are established, it will again be a perfect universe.

 

[Enoch111]

I would say re Adam and Eve they were perfect inasmuch as a small apple is green but not yet sweet and matured to full size.

But that is not what is presented in Scripture. Adam and Eve were created as fully mature people who were perfect in every respect. If Adam could give names to all the creatures in less than one day, his intellect would have been far above anyone's today. He was made just "a little lower than the angels". And Eve would not have been inferior in any way, since God was the one who created her miraculously to be an exact complement to Adam.

 

[Helen]

But that is not what is presented in Scripture. Adam and Eve were created as fully mature people who were perfect in every respect. If Adam could give names to all the creatures in less than one day, his intellect would have been far above anyone's today. He was made just "a little lower than the angels". And Eve would not have been inferior in any way, since God was the one who created her miraculously to be an exact complement to Adam.

Yes you are right...

Jesus was perfect, but as He was tempted in all points as we are, He must have had the potential of being able to choose and sin.

( which I know brings people screaming at the mere thought that Jesus had the potential to sin....because they say He was 100% God while here....Ive heard nothing more silly than the phrase "100% Gd and 100% man" )

 

[Enoch111]

If God looked into the future before creating Adam and saw that he would be disobedient as people say since as I said God is infallible then Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient...

You are suggesting that Adam was *programmed* to be disobedient, and what I was presenting from Scripture is that ADAM AND EVE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO DISOBEY GOD.

But God knew that they would be disobedient, therefore He planned for the Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world FROM BEFORE the foundation of the world.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are suggesting that Adam was *programmed* to be disobedient, and what I was presenting from Scripture is that ADAM AND EVE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO DISOBEY GOD.

But God knew that they would be disobedient, therefore He planned for the Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world FROM BEFORE the foundation of the world.

we all know that God is infallible he can't make mistakes and he can't be proved wrong. If God looked into the future before God created Adam and saw that he was going to sin are you saying that Adam had the ability or capacity to prove God wrong and be obedient instead of being disobedient. Do you honestly believe Adam or anyone in creation can prove God wrong. I don't believe God programed Adam. I know that if God had looked into the future and seen that he was going to sin before he created him then that's what you call being programed. That's one of the reasons I don't believe God looked into the future to see if Adam would sin. God is selective how he uses his abilities I believe, that includes his ability of being omniscient. Think about it God is all-powerful yet when he destroyed the world with a flood, God didn't use every bit of his power yet he is still all-powerful. Just as God is selective how he uses his omnipotence(all-powerful) God is selective how he uses his omniscient(all- knowing). I agree that because God knows what he created, specifically talking about Adam(mankind) God knew that Adam had the ability to be disobedient. That doesn't mean that God looked into the future to see if Adam would be obedient or disobedient. God didn't plan for a savior for mankind until Adam and Eve sinned. Nothing in scripture suggests that God planned for a savior until after Adam and Eve sinned, not before.

 

[Nancy]

"because evil has been leashed upon us" hmm
consider the implications of that statement inthe context of "tree of knowledge" if you will

Well, it is the Tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL, yes? Maybe I should have said that evil and sin had been UN-leashed on us? We still have to fight that parasite called sin inside us, don't you think?

 

[101G]

I believe you are not listening. God is infallible. If God looked into the future before creating Adam and saw that he would be disobedient as people say since as I said God is infallible then Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient, if he could choose to be obedient after God had already saw he would be disobedient then that would mean God could be proved wrong and it's impossible to prove God wrong so Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient. He couldn't choose to be obedient if God had already seen him to be disobedient if he has that ability or capacity to prove God wrong concerning what God saw before creating him then that means God would be fallible not infallible. I believe God to be infallible. So these people who believe God saw that Angel to become Satan and Adam to be disobedient before creating them are wrong I believe. I also believe that those people who believe in this kind of definition of omniscient to be an arbitrary definition. They have a right to their definitions, beliefs, interpretation of scripture but I don't have to agree with them and because I disagree with them doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.

the omniscient of God is not questionable. but a foreknowledge of a path to take is, meaning ........ a choice. for if as you said that God knew that Adam would sin, the opposit is also correct, if he would not sin. for God have said "If you harken unto my voice", if is a conditional option, it's not set.
so nothing is set. for "PRAYER" changes things. I was shocked when God told the prophet Jeremiah not to "pray" for the people. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". understand, if Jeremiah would have prayed, God would have a. heared. b. delayed, not changed his mind, but delayed what he was going to do to the people. God have all the time in the world to do anything he wants. but most important God have a will too, and his will is supreme.

if God had set, or KNOWN only one way for Adam to go, then he's not the almighty. for the Almighty can do anything. with men it's impossible, but not with God. hence the way of SALVATION is Made. see now the paths?

PICJAG.

 

[Nancy]

Hmmm...I think there is no perfection apart from God. But...of Satan it says, you were perfect in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity was found in you. So...by your thoughts, God didn't create the angels perfect either. Because by your thought, if you are capable of sin, you aren't created perfectly.

So then, even before Adam and eve sinned, they were not perfect? So to be created perfect doesn't mean to have no sin but means instead to not be capable of sin? To be created perfect means an inability to sin? So...God has never created a single perfect being then.

But, according to the verse I gave about Satan, a created being can be perfect in his ways, but by your thought, to be without sin is not to be perfect (because to be perfect is to be completely incapable of sin).

And if I take your thought that perfect does not mean without sin but instead means not capable of sin and combine it with your thought that God wanted His creation to choose to love Him, I arrive at this: God created all beings imperfect because He desired them to choose love. So then, there can be no love God wants other than through an imperfectly created being?

There are some problems there for me. But when I go back to my first sentence (and I had to, because I'm in a problem here, lol), I said, I think there is no perfection apart from God. So then, with God is perfection. Seperating from God (as Satan and as Adam did) is to have iniquity found in you. So the only way your way can be perfect is in God, with God.

And I do find this in the NT. In Him is no sin. And Paul's desire was to be found in Him in whom there is no sin. If we abide in Him, we do not sin. If we abide in Him, there is no iniquity found in us. Because He is perfect. And I come to the conclusion that perfection is: to be in Him in whom is no sin. And that's as far as I can take it - and I'm left thinking, then I want to abide in Him! Yet my tent of flesh is condemned (it must die) because of imperfection (sin, iniquity found in it). And even if I am found in Him in whom there is no sin, this is still true of my tent, it must die because it is imperfect.

Have I just made it all worse? Lol.

So then my desire is to be in Him. My question is, I know He is in me, but how do I be in Him??

"So...by your thoughts, God didn't create the angels perfect either. Because by your thought, if you are capable of sin, you aren't created perfectly."
It seems simple to me that if one were "perfect" that they would not sin. A third of the angels decided to take sides with Satan so...I would say they have the same free will choices we have?

"So then, even before Adam and eve sinned, they were not perfect? So to be created perfect doesn't mean to have no sin but means instead to not be capable of sin? To be created perfect means an inability to sin? So...God has never created a single perfect being then."

I cannot say they were perfect, sinless yes but, obviously not perfect as they DID sin...only Jesus was sinless, so He gave us the only "perfect" sacrifice, perfect in all His ways. If one were created perfect and programmed not to sin, we would be robots and have no ability to choose to love Him.

"My question is, I know He is in me, but how do I be in Him??"

John 4:13-14
13 "This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us."

I believe we will be fighting against the flesh and sin til the day we die. We grow continually and, sin is a parasite and, as we renew our minds we will live more and more like Christ and sin less and less as the Holy Spirit shines that light on the sin we don't even realize we have and, we repent, how ever many times in a day we need to. I find that eventually the sin that so "besets" us, gets smaller and smaller until it is gone and His grace gets deeper and deeper as we seek Him...I wonder if we all have dif defs of "perfect"? I hope I got my points across

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well, it is the Tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL, yes? Maybe I should have said that evil and sin had been UN-leashed on us? We still have to fight that parasite called sin inside us, don't you think?

Doesn't saying that evil and sin had been un-leashed on God's creation imply that evil and sin existed before Adam and Eve sinned. I find nowhere in scripture that evil or sin already existed before Adam and Eve sinned. I do see a serpent tempting Eve to be disobedient to the command God had commanded them to obey. I agree that the scriptures show us that Satan is the original serpent. This shows us that this Angel became a Satan and a Devil when this Angel came to Eve like he did but before that we have no scripture that shows he was an enemy of God until that point in time where the Angel used a serpent to deceive Eve. The scriptures show that Satan was a manslayer when he began. This could only be speaking about causing Adam and Eve to fall into sin.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

the omniscient of God is not questionable. but a foreknowledge of a path to take is, meaning ........ a choice. for if as you said that God knew that Adam would sin, the opposit is also correct, if he would not sin. for God have said "If you harken unto my voice", if is a conditional option, it's not set.
so nothing is set. for "PRAYER" changes things. I was shocked when God told the prophet Jeremiah not to "pray" for the people. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". understand, if Jeremiah would have prayed, God would have a. heared. b. delayed, not changed his mind, but delayed what he was going to do to the people. God have all the time in the world to do anything he wants. but most important God have a will too, and his will is supreme.

if God had set, or KNOWN only one way for Adam to go, then he's not the almighty. for the Almighty can do anything. with men it's impossible, but not with God. hence the way of SALVATION is Made. see now the paths?

PICJAG.

I believe what I said about God being infallible stands, it's not going to change because you and others don't believe. You can say the omniscient of God is not questionable, but when people tell me they believe God saw that Adam was going to sin before he created Adam, then I'm going to question peoples definition of what they say omniscient means.

 

[Nancy]

Doesn't saying that evil and sin had been un-leashed on God's creation imply that evil and sin existed before Adam and Eve sinned. I find nowhere in scripture that evil or sin already existed before Adam and Eve sinned. I do see a serpent tempting Eve to be disobedient to the command God had commanded them to obey. I agree that the scriptures show us that Satan is the original serpent. This shows us that this Angel became a Satan and a Devil when this Angel came to Eve like he did but before that we have no scripture that shows he was an enemy of God until that point in time where the Angel used a serpent to deceive Eve. The scriptures show that Satan was a manslayer when he began. This could only be speaking about causing Adam and Eve to fall into sin.

First you say
"I find nowhere in scripture that evil or sin already existed before Adam and Eve sinned."

Then you say:

"I do see a serpent tempting Eve to be disobedient to the command God had commanded them to obey."

So, the serpent who USED to be Lucifer was already in that garden before they sinned, how could it be any other way??! He was wicked and evil the second He tried to rise above God The Father. When was Lucifer cast out of heaven with a third of his angels? If Satan was not already evil, why would he have Adam and Eve disobeying God??

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You seem to be seriously confused. I was speaking about what GOD CREATED in the beginning. And you are talking about a fallen world after the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

We should never confuse the two. when God said that everything He had created was "VERY GOOD", a perfect God did indeed create a perfect universe. And when the New Heavens and the New Earth are established, it will again be a perfect universe.

Ok. When was the world to come created perfect in Christ and always in God’s sight, the world God so loved that He gave His only begotten Son that others may have Life and the good Word and the power of the world to come? Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Many other verses. “Very good” is not perfect. Perfect seems to have been reserved for the Son. Didn’t Adam and Eve lack something...otherwise they would not have listened to another voice over God’s. The Son didn’t. He listened to the Father. Therefore He is not “very good” but Perfect. If God wanted perfect in any other than His Son, would He have created “very good” and reserved Perfect for the Son?

Ephesians 1:4-5
[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[Enoch111]

Didn’t Adam and Eve lack something...otherwise they would not have listened to another voice over God’s.

They lacked nothing whatsoever. They were also free from the sin nature. But they did have the free will to choose to either obey or disobey. That is why they were given a COMMANDMENT. All they had to do was obey it. It was not a grievous commandment since Eden had every kind of delicious and nutritious fruit, vegetable, and herb. It was an amazing orchard/garden.

BTW, when God says something is VERY GOOD, it is indeed perfect. Since God's standard is perfection. There were no flaws in creation, and even today -- even after the Fall -- we see God's mathematical precision in the minutest details of His creation. Fractals are an excellent example of how perfectly God created.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Fi
"I find nowhere in scripture that evil or sin already existed before Adam and Eve sinned."

First you say
"I find nowhere in scripture that evil or sin already existed before Adam and Eve sinned."

Then you say:

"I do see a serpent tempting Eve to be disobedient to the command God had commanded them to obey."

So, the serpent who USED to be Lucifer was already in that garden before they sinned, how could it be any other way??! He was wicked and evil the second He tried to rise above God The Father. When was Lucifer cast out of heaven with a third of his angels? If Satan was not already evil, why would he have Adam and Eve disobeying God??

Just because I said that in scripture I saw a serpent tempting Eve to be disobedient to the command God had commanded them to obey doesn't mean Satan was an enemy of God before he caused Adam and Eve death when deceiving them into sinning. The serpent in the garden was just a serpent. The Angel that became Satan and The Devil simply talked through that serpent using it as a medium. Jesus Christ said of Satan: “That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because the truth is not in him.” (Joh 8:44; 1Jo 3:8) Jesus here shows that Satan was once in the truth, but forsook it. Beginning with his first overt act in turning Adam and Eve away from God, he was a manslayer, for he thereby brought about the death of Adam and Eve, which, in turn, brought sin and death to their offspring. (Ro 5:12)

So, from a righteous, perfect start, this spirit person deviated into sin and degradation. The process bringing this about is described by James when he writes: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.” (Jas 1:14, 15) So until Satan committed this act of deceiving Eve to sin there was no sin or evil in Gods creation. It was when the Angel acted out by deceiving Eve that Evil and sin entered God's creation, not before.

 

[Collin Feener]

Ok. When was the world to come created perfect in Christ and always in God’s sight, the world God so loved that He gave His only begotten Son that others may have Life and the good Word and the power of the world to come? Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Many other verses. “Very good” is not perfect. Perfect seems to have been reserved for the Son. Didn’t Adam and Eve lack something...otherwise they would not have listened to another voice over God’s. The Son didn’t. He listened to the Father. Therefore He is not “very good” but Perfect. If God wanted perfect in any other than His Son, would He have created “very good” and reserved Perfect for the Son?

Ephesians 1:4-5
[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Not a lot to add to what has already been said, but maybe a little. Adam was perfect and created in God's image.
Being created in God's image means exactly that, being perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. He was perfect until he was seen to have iniquity in him. His imperfection was shown with his answer saying he knew they were naked. By that God knew he had sinned. The fruit looked good to Eve and you eat of it with your eyes and your ears and then defile by what you, or he says.
The odd thing is God created man to till the earth and the tilling didn't start until they were sent out from the garden. God's ministers are ministers of fire and the fire keeps the way of the tree of life. You have to look past the fires to see the tree. There was no bread in the Garden , just the trees. Men who don't sit in the seats with the scoffers, the ungodly sort.The tillers plant the seeds and good seed is planted with the bad seed and in the harvest God seperates the good from the bad. I think this was God's plan right from the beginning because Jesus said they would be thrown into the fires created from the beginning.

Ok. When was the world to come created perfect in Christ and always in God’s sight, the world God so loved that He gave His only begotten Son that others may have Life and the good Word and the power of the world to come? Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Many other verses. “Very good” is not perfect. Perfect seems to have been reserved for the Son. Didn’t Adam and Eve lack something...otherwise they would not have listened to another voice over God’s. The Son didn’t. He listened to the Father. Therefore He is not “very good” but Perfect. If God wanted perfect in any other than His Son, would He have created “very good” and reserved Perfect for the Son?

Ephesians 1:4-5
[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

As I explained once before if I am recalling it correctly, I don't like the word, "literal" here because to me, it could include both the spiritual and the physical... whereas I believe you meant physical or carnal or material.

Now if you used either "carnal" or "physical" in place of "literal" I would better understand your question although the answer is quite another thing...LOL

Physically it would seem to me that they already dying. They had physical flaws or weakness because of the material used to form them. They live nearly a thousand years physically because they were well made at the beginning. Likely the results of coupling [male-female] produced a slightly less than "very good" copy [child] than God did in the beginning. That is all conjecture or speculation, if you will. The spiritual part should have had no limit to its existence based on the information we have about how things wear out [presuming no wear and tear on the spiritual simply because of time]. hat is perhaps the limit time-wise was no limit.

But, how do the two affect each other... that the physical man and the spiritual man? If the spiritual man had not died that day [immediately?], perhaps the physical man would have been able to live longer than the 1000 years [almost] Adam attained. This is presuming that a Living "spiritual me" can or will enable the "physical me" to last longer. I recalled that there were verses related to this and I easily found the following ones using the search word, "long" in the Psalms and Proverbs. I am certain there are others that may express such thing more clearly but... anyway? Some of these may be understood to apply to either one or both types of "me":

"For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.
Thou wilt prolong the king's life: and his years as many generations.
He shall abide before God for ever: O prepare mercy and truth, which may preserve him." Psalm 61:5-7

"The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened." Prov 10:27

"The prince that wanteth understanding is also a great oppressor: but he that hateth covetousness shall prolong his days" Prov 28:16

Then again, the word, "for ever" as used here in the KJV Bible may not always mean unending life.

Also being subject to "death" is likely dependent on exactly what we mean by death and what God means by death. Man's definition is not always equal to God's. The spiritual Adam and Eve which as I see it died when they disobeyed God did not do so because their parts wore out. They were effectively killed because they did that which God told them not to do. They were killed by the Word of God.

I wrote a lot of words here, but wonder how well, if at all, I answered the question?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I do not see where God created the world "perfect". I do believe Adam and Eve were perfectly made "in His image", probably heartier and stronger, bigger maybe? But if they were created as "perfect beings" then, they would not have sinned. I can see God, giving them free will, with the ability TO sin. And, of course, God knew they would sin. He want's His children to choose to Love Him. It could also be that the Glory of God's love and grace could not be realized unless Adam and Eve did sin. Or, maybe it is a combination?

I think people when talking about Adam and Eve or this planet we live on being perfect, have to realize that absolute perfection applies to God alone. Everything and everyone else said to be perfect one has to understand that perfection applied to creation is relative.

That is, a thing is “perfect” according to, or in relation to, the purpose or end for which it is appointed by its designer or producer, or the use to which it is to be put by its receiver or user. The very meaning of perfection requires that there be someone who decides when “completion” has been reached, what the standards of excellence are, what requirements are to be satisfied, and what details are essential. Ultimately, God, the Creator is the final Arbiter of perfection, the Standard-Setter, in accord with his own righteous purposes and interests. —Ro 12:2

As an illustration, the planet Earth was one of God’s creations, and at the end of six creative ‘days’ of work toward it, God pronounced the results “very good.” (Ge 1:31) It met his supreme standards of excellence, hence it was perfect. Yet he thereafter assigned a man to “subdue it,” evidently in the sense of cultivating the earth and making the whole planet, and not just Eden, a garden of God. —Ge 1:28; 2:8.