Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Your living in a fantasy world if you think there are no other living organisms in and on you.

That life mounts to half of the life that makes up you.

You are severely deceived because all the Life in me is truly lovingly of/by/through/in Jesus my Lord who says "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life " (John 14:6).

You persist in your divergence from the Word of God such as "Humans are walking ecosystems 50% human 50% alien" (the word of BeyondET), so your word is non-authoritative and deception.

The Word of God defines how a human will operates, and I cite scripture below that is authoritative about human will.

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

So, all believers are but by choice. This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY.

You spout off without understanding the Word of God because you wrote "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY", yet Judas departed prior (see John 13:21-30 comes temporally before John 15:16-19) which means you are deceived in one respect. ERROR 1: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Another respect by which you demonstrate failure to understand with your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is illumined retrospectively by the post #1,308 to you which exposits that Matthias and Joseph were present when Jesus says the recorded Word in John 15:16-19! ERROR 2: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Yet another respect exposing your deception of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is where Lord Jesus says to Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) is upon all believers in all time, including His recorded Word in John 15:16-19. ERROR 3: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

Those people didn't know they were being gathered together to accomplish Gods predestinated purpose of crucifying Christ. They made their choices and decisions willingly, not by force. Acts 4:26-28

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

You cannot have it both ways. God either controls them or He does not. It matters not that they did not know what God was doing. Your view is that man's will, which is actually a misnomer by your view, is controlled by God. That is the opposite of scripture.
Now you say they made their choices willingly. How can that even be?

 

[Rightglory]

You spout off without understanding the Word of God because you wrote "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY", yet Judas departed prior (see John 13:21-30 comes temporally before John 15:16-19) which means you are deceived in one respect. ERROR 1: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Yet it does not change anything. The disciples were the ones being chosen. Believers are not chosen to believe. It is counter to all of scripture. Even being chosen, He directs his disciples to to keep His commandments and if they do, they abide in his love. There you have free will again. They are also commanded to love one another. Why would He even say this if man does not have a will that is free to do or not to do.

Another respect by which you demonstrate failure to understand with your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is illumined retrospectively by the post #1,308 to you which exposits that Matthias and Joseph were present when Jesus says the recorded Word in John 15:16-19! ERROR 2: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Again, He is speaking to the disciples again, not universally all believers since we know believers are not chosen to be believers.

Yet another respect exposing your deception of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is where Lord Jesus says to Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) is upon all believers in all time, including His recorded Word in John 15:16-19. ERROR 3: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.
You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

Totally different context. The whole of scripture is written for us. Why do you think you are reading about John 15:16-19.
As to "friend" as stated in vs13 is the context of what Christ did. What did He do? He died for all men so that all men could have the opportunity to believe in Him. It is why He is calling all men to repentance. Man must choose whether to believe or not to believe in Him, That nasty free will is everywhere.
vs 14 has another command. Totally superfluous if God controls the "will" of man.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

It does not include salvation since He commands them to keep His commandments, to love Him. If God controls our wills, this commandment makes no sense whatsoever.

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Nice concept but that is never stated or implied in all of scripture. To become a believer one must first believe, The NT is full of phrases such as believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, if you believe, Commands to believe. These would be unnecessary if God controls man's will.
Then we have phrases such as do this to remain, If you don't keep my commandments you are not of me. It is all man's free will. Man must submit His will to God's will. Why is God to judge man if man is not responsible for his actions? Since we all sin, you make God the sinner rather than man.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

So you say, but you have not explained just why God commands us to do things, if He is actually controlling our wills. You have a very inconsistent concept of what scripture teaches. You have a view that has two categorically exclusive aspects. If you need to have men's wills controlled you need to explain just how man can be held responsible for his actions, choices. If you can do that, then you have made progress. I think you will need to change your view, if you want to call it scriptural.

 

[brightfame52]

You cannot have it both ways. God either controls them or He does not. It matters not that they did not know what God was doing. Your view is that man's will, which is actually a misnomer by your view, is controlled by God. That is the opposite of scripture.
Now you say they made their choices willingly. How can that even be?

But it is both ways. God is in control, controlling the will of man, and yet man is acting willfully and responsibly Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Now God determined the wickedness of these people and still held them culpable for the same.

 

[Rightglory]

But it is both ways. God is in control, controlling the will of man, and yet man is acting willfully and responsibly Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Now God determined the wickedness of these people and still held them culpable for the same.

It cannot be both ways, They are diametrically opposite. Your theory says so,, but both scripture and the understanding of foreknowledge makes them incompatible.
The fact that Jesus was predestined to be slain we already knew that in Gen 3:15. The Bible states that it was the time to have Christ enter this world. God used evil men to accomplish His goal. God did not determine their wickedness which is why they can be held accountable.
You just make these wild statements without any explanation of just how God can control man's will, yet hold man responsible for what he does. You need to study "foreknowledge" what it is, and how it works. Then you might understand your predicament.

 

[brightfame52]

rightglory

It cannot be both ways

Ah but it is, its right there before you, but you cannot see it ! And you are still responsible !

 

[Rightglory]

rightglory



Ah but it is, its right there before you, but you cannot see it ! And you are still responsible !

Again, you failed to explain just how that might work. Explain how God escapes being the sinner when He controls man's will? Until you can it is just a very misunderstood view that you are espousing. You need to develop a theological argument showing rationally, logically how God can control man's will and still hold man responsible for his choices, and actions. I'll give you a hint. Your whole problem is not understanding "foreknowledge".

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you failed to explain just how that might work. Explain how God escapes being the sinner when He controls man's will? Until you can it is just a very misunderstood view that you are espousing. You need to develop a theological argument showing rationally, logically how God can control man's will and still hold man responsible for his choices, and actions. I'll give you a hint. Your whole problem is not understanding "foreknowledge".

I have explained enough. God is in Sovereign control of mans decisions having predetermined what they will do, even sinful choices, and at the same time holds men accountable for our sinful choices. Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

See even though what they did was wicked, nevertheless it was according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, it was predetermined.

Acts 4:26-28

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Thats my explaining, the word of God !!

 

[Rightglory]

I have explained enough. God is in Sovereign control of mans decisions having predetermined what they will do, even sinful choices, and at the same time holds men accountable for our sinful choices. Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

See even though what they did was wicked, nevertheless it was according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, it was predetermined.

Acts 4:26-28

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Thats my explaining, the word of God !!

I pray that someday you will see the light.

 

[brightfame52]

I pray that someday you will see the light.

May God be merciful to you if you one of His elect !

 

[BeyondET]

You are severely deceived because all the Life in me is truly lovingly of/by/through/in Jesus my Lord who says "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life " (John 14:6).

You persist in your divergence from the Word of God such as "Humans are walking ecosystems 50% human 50% alien" (the word of BeyondET), so your word is non-authoritative and deception.

The Word of God defines how a human will operates, and I cite scripture below that is authoritative about human will.



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Of course God created man to have those 10,000 or so species in/on on you. You dont have respect for God's creation apparently you willfully ignore such amazing things.

Heres a basic example that keeps you healthy. Gut flora, alien microorganisms in your intestines, those little life forms help to keep you healthy.

 

[Kermos]

Of course God created man to have those 10,000 or so species in/on on you. You dont have respect for God's creation apparently you willfully ignore such amazing things.

Heres a basic example that keeps you healthy. Gut flora, alien microorganisms in your intestines, those little life forms help to keep you healthy.

The Word of God says "Are you still lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders" (Matthew 15:16-19).

You better look at how the Word of God defines life. See Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 3:24 for excellent coverage of how the Word of God establishes the meaning of life. God carefully distinguishes about that which is living; furthermore, the word "species" does not appear in the Word of God, but rather the Word of God refers to creatures in their "kind".

The Word of God does not say that a single cell by itself is an "alien microorganisms in your intestines, those little life forms" (your words); moreover, the "living single cell organism" is a teaching of college professors (priests) in a University's School of Science Department (temple of doom), so your "alien microorganisms" is a tradition of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

You are severely deceived because all the Life in me is truly lovingly of/by/through/in Jesus my Lord who says "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life " (John 14:6).

You persist in your divergence from the Word of God such as "Humans are walking ecosystems 50% human 50% alien" (the word of BeyondET), so your word is non-authoritative and deception.

The Word of God defines how a human will operates, and I cite scripture below that is authoritative about human will.

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Yet it does not change anything. The disciples were the ones being chosen. Believers are not chosen to believe. It is counter to all of scripture.

I am Lord Jesus Christ's disciple, and these wonderful words of Lord Jesus recorded in John 15:16-19 are declared to me and all His disciples in all time. You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's disciple according to your words.

God causes believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent according to this Word of God "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so your quoted writing above is "counter to all of scripture".

Back to your words "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" by which YOU DEMONSTRATED YOUR INABILITY TO SEE THE TRUE NUMBER OF PERSONS DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THE WORD OF GOD RECORDED IN JOHN 15:16-19.

Lord Jesus says to the disciples Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37), so your "it does not change anything" is deception about your human imposition against the Word of God recorded in John 15:16-19 being restricted to "twelve men ONLY".

So, all believers are but by choice. This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY.

You spout off without understanding the Word of God because you wrote "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY", yet Judas departed prior (see John 13:21-30 comes temporally before John 15:16-19) which means you are deceived in one respect. ERROR 1: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Another respect by which you demonstrate failure to understand with your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is illumined retrospectively by the post #1,308 to you which exposits that Matthias and Joseph were present when Jesus says the recorded Word in John 15:16-19! ERROR 2: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Yet another respect exposing your deception of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is where Lord Jesus says to Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) is upon all believers in all time, including His recorded Word in John 15:16-19. ERROR 3: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

I am Lord Jesus Christ's disciple, and these wonderful words of Lord Jesus recorded in John 15:16-19 are declared to me and all His disciples in all time. You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's disciple according to your words.

That may be a nice thought but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer. Those that Jesus called were already righteous, namely Nathaniel, Zachariah, Mary, even Joseph and probably many more.
We also know that God uses foreknowledge in knowing the lives of any person. He knew Judas would betray him, however, he did not cause Judas to betray him. Same with Saul. He already knew by foreknowledge that Paul would choose to follow Him after he called Him on the way to Damascus.
You were not chosen to be a disciple. You become one because you believed and became a disciple.

God causes believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent according to this Word of God "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so your quoted writing above is "counter to all of scripture".

Hardly, God is calling all men to repentance. II Pet 3:9,
As a believer we have a great gift by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit working in us to do the will of God. The Holy Spirit is NOT doing our believing. He is working that we grow, that we remain faithful. God will not, cannot compel man's will. Man was created free for the express purpose to freely love Him If God did what you think He is doing would be to deny God is love. He loveth His creation and all mankind. He desires that all come to believe in Him.

Back to your words "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" by which YOU DEMONSTRATED YOUR INABILITY TO SEE THE TRUE NUMBER OF PERSONS DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THE WORD OF GOD RECORDED IN JOHN 15:16-19.

Lord Jesus says to the disciples Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37), so your "it does not change anything" is deception about your human imposition against the Word of God recorded in John 15:16-19.
You spout off without understanding the Word of God because you wrote "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY", yet Judas departed prior (see John 13:21-30 comes temporally before John 15:16-19) which means you are deceived in one respect. ERROR 1: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Another respect by which you demonstrate failure to understand with your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is illumined retrospectively by the post #1,308 to you which exposits that Matthias and Joseph were present when Jesus says the recorded Word in John 15:16-19! ERROR 2: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

Yet another respect exposing your deception of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" is where Lord Jesus says to Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) is upon all believers in all time, including His recorded Word in John 15:16-19. ERROR 3: Your "directly to twelve men ONLY" is dead wrong.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "This context is NOT about future believers, but speaking directly to twelve men ONLY" because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I have already responded to the above section in Post 1364.
Why didn't you respond to my statements in that post, rather then just repeating what you stated.

 

[BeyondET]

The Word of God says "Are you still lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders" (Matthew 15:16-19).

You better look at how the Word of God defines life. See Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 3:24 for excellent coverage of how the Word of God establishes the meaning of life. God carefully distinguishes about that which is living; furthermore, the word "species" does not appear in the Word of God, but rather the Word of God refers to creatures in their "kind".

The Word of God does not say that a single cell by itself is an "alien microorganisms in your intestines, those little life forms" (your words); moreover, the "living single cell organism" is a teaching of college professors (priests) in a University's School of Science Department (temple of doom), so your "alien microorganisms" is a tradition of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

You are severely deceived because all the Life in me is truly lovingly of/by/through/in Jesus my Lord who says "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life " (John 14:6).

You persist in your divergence from the Word of God such as "Humans are walking ecosystems 50% human 50% alien" (the word of BeyondET), so your word is non-authoritative and deception.

The Word of God defines how a human will operates, and I cite scripture below that is authoritative about human will.



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I would agree kind is specie, thank you for opinion my friend

 

[Kermos]

I would agree kind is specie, thank you for opinion my friend

I did not equate the word "species" with the word "kinds". The word "species" has at least 14 different meanings because the Priests of the Temple of Evolutionary Doom are a confused lot, and those priests have confused disciples.

The Word of God defines how a human will operates, and I cite scripture below that is authoritative about human will.

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

That may be a nice thought but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer.

Blindly written by you because in the very post to which you replied is the Word of God saying:

• "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29), so God causes believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.
• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer." because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes belief/faith with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

Blindly written by you because in the very post to which you replied is the Word of God saying:

• "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29), so God causes believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.
• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer." because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes belief/faith with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Again, you put forth your mantra but none of the texts or context fits your view that man has no will, independent of God. The fact that man had a free will from the very beginning is part of the nature of God in creating man in His Image. To say God is love, then to deny that love to mankind in making him a robot does violence to God's nature of who He is. Love is an attribute of God, not an action of God. Man was given the ability to return that love. Being a robot destroys man as a human being made in His Image. Man cannot have communion with God unless he can freely choose to have communion. God creating mechanical objects who will act perfectly to His will is not love but self gratification.
It speaks diametrically opposite of scripture. Man is being judged, To be judged one must have culpability, responsibility to be judged. We are constantly admonished, maybe most of the NT is admonishment, to guard our faith, to keep our faith, to strengthen our faith, to grow in faith. making sure we abide in His love. Those admonishments would be nonsensical if God controls man's will. Just as God did not control the will of Adam to sin.
There is another very simple element to show that God does not control our wills. We sin. If God controls our wills then we cannot sin. Whatever sin we do must be of God. Do you believe God sins?
Your view has not been the teaching of Christianity for 2000 years. What theory are you trying to prove?

 

[Kermos]

Again, you put forth your mantra but none of the texts or context fits your view

You are very insulting towards the Word of God by your use of the eastern religion word "mantra" to describe the Word of God that God has me proclaiming to you as we can see furthermore in the below.

That may be a nice thought but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer.

Blindly written by you because in the very post to which you replied is the Word of God saying:

• "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29), so God causes believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.
• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

You just excluded yourself from being chosen as Christ's friend (John 15:15-19) according to your words.

In your very first paragraph, with the Word of God proclaimed right in front of you, you persisted in telling your leavened lie (Galatians 5:7-9) by your thoughts of "but nothing is scripture proclaims that any believer was chosen to be a believer." because as the posts to which you have replied shows Lord Jesus makes it entirely clear that His choosing disciples includes belief/faith with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

See that Jesus mentions "world" in John 15:19 and Jesus explains that the "world" is opposed to the Kingdom of God in the intervening sayings between the above quotations of King Jesus with Jesus saying to all Jesus Christ's disciples in all time "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you" (John 15:19); therefore, Lord Jesus chooses we disciples of Jesus out of the world that is under the wrath of God then King Jesus passionately places us under God's loving care within the Kingdom of God.

Thus says the LORD that the LORD exclusively selects persons unto salvation with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.