Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[1stCenturyLady]

"Satan" is simply the label given to the mass of unholy bad vibes that are sloshing around the planet causing earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanos and illness etc, churned out by millions of nonchristians.
Likewise "hell" is the label for 'Loserland' where all Jesus-rejecting nonchristians go when they die.
After all they won't be going to heaven because they don't believe in it, so there's nowhere else for them to go..

View attachment 25412

So is it safe to say that you do not believe in a being called "Satan," nor hell?

 

[Dropship]

So is it safe to say that you do not believe in a being called "Satan," nor hell?

Satan is a loser, and hell is Loserland..

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Satan is a loser, and hell is Loserland..

But do you believe that loser exists?

 

[Dropship]

But do you believe that loser exists?

Well Jesus said satan exists, and we can see his handiwork everywhere messing up the world so i'd say yes he exists..

 

[The Learner]

Amplified: For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice] (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

guise = "
an external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something.
"he visited in the guise of an inspector""

 

[Scott Downey]

Born with a sin nature means what exactly?
It means people who have willfulness to sin and who have sinned. They are sinners who have a sin nature.
Jesus knew no sin personally.
Sin nature means when tempted to sin, they fall into sin, maybe not all the time, but for people they sin a lot and some do sin all the time.
He became sin for us, so before that Jesus had no sin.
unless Christ became sin for us, God says the soul that sins shall die. Jesus died, but because death could not hold him, God raised him up. Otherwise none of could have had eternal life with God.

Being tempted to sin does not mean someone has a sin nature. Sin really means to go against the commands of God. We are not to tempt God.

Acts 2:24
whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

Deuteronomy 6:16
“You shall not tempt the Lord your God as you tempted Him in Massah.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 3:18
Christ’s Suffering and Ours
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

 

[The Learner]

wow cool all

 

[DJT_47]

Flesh is flesh and sin and flesh go hand-in-hand. Jesus overcame that, which was his example to us: he was without sin. Sin must be committed. He committed no sin. He was tempted but did not succumb to sin.

 

[The Learner]

If Jesus had a sin nature, his death would be useless for salvation. He was the lamb without blemish or stain of sin. There is a physical flesh and flesh figurative as sin nature. You did a word study fallacy.


1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Revelation 5:12
saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Flesh is flesh and sin and flesh go hand-in-hand. Jesus overcame that, which was his example to us: he was without sin. Sin must be committed. He committed no sin. He was tempted but did not succumb to sin.

 

[The Learner]

"

Don’t be Cross-referencing Wrongly​

In an earlier post I talked about the importance of using cross-references in thinking through the use of biblical words. But as we do so, we need to find cross-references, if they are available, that match the use of our word in the passage we are studying. If we mismatch contexts, that is the cross-reference fallacy.

Here’s an example. A number of years ago, a sincere, very popular Bible study teacher was explaining what it means for us to be “living stones” in 1 Pet. 2:5. The teacher’s interpretation went something like this (I am paraphrasing from memory).

Now the word for stone here is λίθος (lithos). It is the same word used for the stone in front of Jesus’ tomb at John 20:1: “Now very early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance” (NET). So what does it mean for us to be “living stones.” It means that we get out of the way so that light can shine on the resurrection of Jesus!”

I actually respect this teacher, who has been used by God in great ways to minister to people. But do you see the problem here? It is at least twofold. First, the use of λίθος in John 20 is a literal stone. A big rock. The reference to “living stones” in 1 Pet. 2 is figurative, a word picture. Second, the context of 1 Pet. 2 points to the “living stones” as participating in a bigger word picture, referring to believers as the new temple of God. In other words, we all are like building blocks that make up God’s house, with Jesus as the cornerstone of God’s dwelling place. Consequently, the interpretation that points to John 20 actually distracts from what Peter was intending to communicate. This is the cross-reference fallacy. It is true that we need to point to Jesus’ resurrection? Of course! But that is not what Peter was doing in this part of his letter. Here’s the key: words are used variously in different contexts, and we need to discern the particular use in a given context. How do we avoid this fallacy? By discerning which possible meaning an author intended based on the context, or, in this case, how a given meaning is used."

Doin’ the Wonky with Words: 4 Word Study Missteps (Part 2) — George H Guthrie

In my last post I discussed briefly two wonky things we do with words: the root fallacy and the time-frame fallacy. In this post let’s discuss two other ways we throw Bible terms under the linguistic bus.

georgehguthrie.com

 

[Scott Downey]

If Jesus had a sin nature, his death would be useless for salvation. He was the lamb without blemish or stain of sin. There is a physical flesh and flesh figurative as sin nature. You did a word study fallacy.


1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Revelation 5:12
saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If Jesus had a sin nature, then he could not have been the Resurrection and the Life, being in the form of God, the last Adam gives life to the dead.
AMPC
Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

What this means is God can not sin, God cannot fall into temptation by evil and sin like a man does. God cannot be tempted successfully, and we are commanded not to tempt God. This wont stop some from trying, but they cannot ever succeed.

 

[DJT_47]

If Jesus had a sin nature, his death would be useless for salvation. He was the lamb without blemish or stain of sin. There is a physical flesh and flesh figurative as sin nature. You did a word study fallacy.


1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Revelation 5:12
saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

What is a sin nature? Jesus was tempted by the devil. Why was he tempted? It's because Jesus was flesh and flesh is prone to sin, but Jesus fid not committ sin even though tempted. It's his example to us as I stated. So, being in the flesh as we are he was likewise tempted as we are. What's your point?

If Jesus had a sin nature, then he could not have been the Resurrection and the Life, being in the form of God, the last Adam gives life to the dead.
AMPC
Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

What this means is God can not sin, God cannot fall into temptation by evil and sin like a man does. God cannot be tempted successfully, and we are commanded not to tempt God. This wont stop some from trying, but they cannot ever succeed.

There are no scriptures that say what you're implying. Nor do the ones you've quoted. The fact is Jesus was tempted by the devil, unsuccessfully. But that doesn't mean he swallowed the devils bait and sinned? No he did not. And yes, therefore, God cannot be SUCCESSFULLY tempted. But Jesus was in the flesh and being in the flesh was as vulnerable as anyone, yet he did not sin, unlike us who all have and was in fact without spot. He is our example.

 

[face2face]

What is a sin nature? Jesus was tempted by the devil.

Hebrews 2:14 human nature and it's bias to sin is called the devil (false accuser), rightly so! Christians din't understand the use of diabolos.

Why was he tempted? It's because Jesus was flesh and flesh is prone to sin, but Jesus fid not committ sin even though tempted. It's his example to us as I stated. So, being in the flesh as we are he was likewise tempted as we are. What's your point?

Romans 8:1-3

What was the arena God choose to overcome sin? And if Christ and you share the same weakness and he was crucified in weakness where did God have his victory?

There are no scriptures that say what you're implying. Nor do the ones you've quoted. The fact is Jesus was tempted by the devil, unsuccessfully. But that doesn't mean he swallowed the devils bait and sinned? No he did not. And yes, therefore, God cannot be SUCCESSFULLY tempted. But Jesus was in the flesh and being in the flesh was as vulnerable as anyone, yet he did not sin, unlike us who all have and was in fact without spot. He is our example.

Correct, Jesus cannot be God on the basis of him being 100% mortal and condemned to die regardless of his crucifixion. Even a moron can reconcile 1 Timothy 6:16 with Habakkuk 1:13 and conclude God's Word was in Christ reconciling the World to Himself...nothing more or less.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Also think about this, God created Angels of heaven to have free choice, Satan had a choice to disobey God. So did God create Angels to have the similar nature of "Sin nature" to make the choice to disobey God? By their own free will?

Oh…okay, it took me awhile to really grasp what you were saying.
So, using the angels, and even Adam and Eve, is not exactly comparable to us.

The angels and Adam and Eve do show that beings directly created by God CAN in fact sin by choosing their will instead of Gods will.

But for you and me, we didn’t have that choice because we weren’t a direct creation of God, but were created by fallen parents.

Since God made Adam and Eve to bring forth of their own kind, once they fell, it ensured that they would bring forth of their own fallen kind. I suppose if they’d had children BEFORE they fell, then those children would have been born with a choice.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh…okay, it took me awhile to really grasp what you were saying.
So, using the angels, and even Adam and Eve, is not exactly comparable to us.

The angels and Adam and Eve do show that beings directly created by God CAN in fact sin by choosing their will instead of Gods will.

But for you and me, we didn’t have that choice because we weren’t a direct creation of God, but were created by fallen parents.

Since God made Adam and Eve to bring forth of their own kind, once they fell, it ensured that they would bring forth of their own fallen kind. I suppose if they’d had children BEFORE they fell, then those children would have been born with a choice.

But it shows how much God loves us that He made a way for us back to Him. He could have just written us off because of whose children we are, but He didn’t. And He understands we really don’t have much control over our flesh, emotions, passions, but He gets us to a point where we see if we ever want to have our passions under the Spirit He gave us a down payment of, that He will have to give us more grace. We struggle with it but every time we think we’re doing pretty good, the unloveliest person we can imagine comes along and bumps us bad and we rage, even if silently in our heart. But eventually (and some might not believe this because I’ve never really heard it taught but I can attest that it’s true by having experienced it) eventually, He calms our passions, weans us from them, and then they don’t rule over us so mercilessly. Instead of them ruling us, we rule over them. They are put in subjection to the Spirit in us. It makes it easier, but they are still there, it’s not yet to have been crucified but it’s so great a difference that we at first think it must be that.

 

[MatthewG]

Very awesome to hear such things, @stunnedbygrace may God continue to help you grow.

 

[MatthewG]

That is why it is so important to just make a go through of the Gospels even if its a general reading out loud to oneself as they go along the story line. My always suggestion is Matthew, Mark, Luke, John just as the Bible has it laid out because if a person goes through it several times, they are going to learn a lot about the Lord, and the people he was dealing with which was his very own brothers, and (part of the chosen nation), which he became a King but not of earth. He became King of Kings, in heaven, and on earth ( I believe), and he had a very real natural side to himself just like all of us, with thoughts in his head and he was always constantly in prayer with his Father ( I imagine) along with temptation which the Holy Spirit kept (The Word) Jesus from having had sin even in the face of temptation.

Those exact same principles apply to us, only it is not us doing it, it is the Spirit with-in the believer by Christ, and the Holy Spirit of God is doing, because they can not commit sin, because they are of God, and God is good, and cannot sin though his goodness creates evil by free-will decisions made in his created beings. Which Jesus was never created in the sense because he has always been living as God's word - since "Let their be light".

Jesus flesh never committed any sin so because of that fleshly body as an offering to God was appeasing to Him because Jesus did not fail, and was completely obedient this recovered Man from the fall (though death, sickness, and tradgies exist). The sin of all mankind was placed upon the Lord, and then after the Lord gave up his spirit or the spirit, I believe the Lord went to Sheol and went and proclaimed a message to those who were in the land of the dead at that time, and three days after being here in this place as the (very Word of God), was resurrected in the Tomb which He was raised from having been burial.

The same principle is for us today - to overcome sin is to feed the spirit, and to feed the spirit is to read the Bible, and give a good study to different topics and subjects in that way you can remember scripture and parts of the journey to the Cross, knowing that life doesn't end there just yet because life comes after this one here. We can have a spirit filled life by praying and supplications to the LORD, in Jesus name, and pray for all people that we know. Making offerings to our LORD who may receive glory, and the glory of the LORD is the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the light of mankind.

 

[Scott Downey]

But it shows how much God loves us that He made a way for us back to Him. He could have just written us off because of whose children we are, but He didn’t. And He understands we really don’t have much control over our flesh, emotions, passions, but He gets us to a point where we see if we ever want to have our passions under the Spirit He gave us a down payment of, that He will have to give us more grace. We struggle with it but every time we think we’re doing pretty good, the unloveliest person we can imagine comes along and bumps us bad and we rage, even if silently in our heart. But eventually (and some might not believe this because I’ve never really heard it taught but I can attest that it’s true by having experienced it) eventually, He calms our passions, weans us from them, and then they don’t rule over us so mercilessly. Instead of them ruling us, we rule over them. They are put in subjection to the Spirit in us. It makes it easier, but they are still there, it’s not yet to have been crucified but it’s so great a difference that we at first think it must be that.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

2 Corinthians 13:4
For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Colossians 3:4-6
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,

Luke 9:62
But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

 

[Mr E]

It’s a fascinating discussion. I bristle when people insist one thing or another, leaving no room for the possibility they don’t fully understand. Maybe there is a part you are missing that would change your perspective entirely if considered.

Too many people foolishly think that being immovable from their belief is a virtue of some kind. It may just be ignorance inaction (pun intended).

 

[The Learner]

If Jesus had a sin nature, then he could not have been the Resurrection and the Life, being in the form of God, the last Adam gives life to the dead.
AMPC
Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

What this means is God can not sin, God cannot fall into temptation by evil and sin like a man does. God cannot be tempted successfully, and we are commanded not to tempt God. This wont stop some from trying, but they cannot ever succeed.

I only have time to give the short answer to your good question friend. God's purpose was to prove Jesus by testing, Satan's was to cause to sin. Jesus as fully man and fully God proved himself in the testing of God similiar to Job.

"Well, this is the way it was with Christ. A bendable human nature was placed into union with an unbendable divine nature and the result was an unbendable person. Now the Holy Spirit knew this, so His purpose in the wilderness was simply to put Christ to the test as an opportunity for Him to demonstrate His awesome power over Satan’s temptation."

Tempted – Matthew 4:1 | A Word from the Word - Dan Hayden

www.awordfromtheword.org

Can God be tempted and does He tempt us? - Difficult Sayings- Language Studies - StudyLight.org

www.studylight.org

Strong's Greek: 3985. πειράζω (peirazó) -- to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt

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