Was Mary Magdalene the sister of Lazarus?

[Wick Stick]

You're the one who said that you don't care about what the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches,

I said I don't care what the Catholic Catechism says. Which is not a lie.

...and persisted in claiming excommunication undoes Baptism in Catholicism,

No, I said that it CANNOT undo baptism. Maybe you want to re-read? You don't seem to have understood what I said, despite being quite angry about it.

after being shown it doesn't. Don't be a coward. Stand by the words that you speak.

What I actually said, or what you confused me to say? I'll stick by my words, but not your words in my mouth.

 

[Sabé]

I said I don't care what the Catholic Catechism says. Which is not a lie.

I didn't say that was the lie you told. Again, your lie was indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism, because you asserted that after I told you what excommunication actually means, and in reply you said you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches. Therefore, with you its "To hell with what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches, I'm just gonna make up what Catholic terms mean".

 

[Wick Stick]

I didn't say that was the lie you told. Again, your lie was asserting that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism, because you asserted that after I told you what excommunication actually means, and in reply you said you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches. Therefore, with you its "To hell with what the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches, I'm just gonna make up what Catholic terms mean" aka lies.

 

[Sabé]

View attachment 69180

Thats you disagreeing with what you asserted the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches about excommunication which is a lie. Again, before expressing disagreement, your lie was indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism in the first place, despite my telling you what excommunication actually means prior to that, and in reply you said you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches. Therefore, with you its "To hell with what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches, I'm just gonna make up what Catholic terms mean".

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't think it's appropriate for @Wick Stick, a Christian, to willingly lie and ignore the truth about what excommunication means in Catholicism.

You are on a public forum that allows civil communication between professed Christians.....we can agree to disagree, and not take things so personally that our posts become a ping pong match about who said what.

The Bible tells us that it’s OK to feel angry about something, but not to allow your anger to spill over into unchristian speech or conduct.

Psalm 4:4...
“When you are angry, be careful not to sin; reflect in silence as you lie upon your beds.” (NCB)

That is good advice.....If you are angry about anything, don’t react like a child. You cannot have regrets about what you didn’t say when your feelings were out of control. Calm down and respond when your anger has subsided. Then give the kind of response that Jesus would.
Self control is a product of God’s spirit.

You're giving your opinion, not a scriptural verse that reads God stopped speaking to or through humanity. In fact, Jesus said that there would be more true and false spokespersons, and He taught us how to tell the difference between the two. (Matt. 7:15;24:24)

I am giving you the apostle Paul’s admonition....
After telling us what love is and what it isn’t, he goes on to say....
1 Cor 13:8-13...
“Love never fails. Prophecies will eventually cease, tongues will become silent, and knowledge will pass away, for our knowledge is partial and our prophesying is partial; but when we encounter what is perfect, that which is imperfect will pass away. When I was a child,I used to talk like a child, think like a child, and reason like a child. However, when I became a man, I put all childish ways aside. At the present time we see indistinctly, as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. My knowledge is only partial now; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. Thus there are three things that endure: faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love.” (NCB)

You see that when you know Scripture, rather than theology, you get a very clear picture about what the whole Bible teaches, not just cherry picked bits of it.

Paul said that in his lifetime, his “knowledge was only partial” and that he awaited a time when he would know all he needed to know, when he came “face to face” with his Master. (something he never did in real life) The time for those things to cease was after the death of the apostles because all that came from Jesus after his resurrection was through them......not through the corruption that took place from the second century onwards.

The Catholic church in all its presentations carries an earthly identification of nationality so that we have a situation in Russia and Ukraine where members of one Catholic church are at war with another...each backed up by their “Orthodox” leaders encouraging the killing of one another. Was the Roman branch any less guilty in the two World Wars of last century? Were the Protestant churches any less guilty of killing their brothers also? How does one “love his brother” if he is viewed as an enemy? What did Jesus tell us? (Matt 5:43-44) Can our brothers ever be our enemies....and if they are, what does that say about the validity of our “Christian” label?

The true Christians are not killing each other because love prevents it.

Jesus said there would be more true and false spokespersons of His, and He taught us how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15;24:24). Where's your faith? What will it take for you to trust that God will make His true and false spokespersons known, just as He's always done, just as He did with Maria Valtorta.

Where is my faith? Securely grounded in the Scriptures that you apparently cannot read.

Matt 7:15...”Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.”
The false prophets are presenting themselves as shepherds among the sheep, but are actually wolves in disguise....feeding them spiritual poison and condoning the bloodshed of their nations....sanctioning their heinous weapons so that the sheep have no compunction about killing their “enemies”....who are really their brothers in the faith. (1 John 4:20-21) Are you blind? Love is the identifier of the true sheep. Love does not carry a weapon.

Matt 24:24...”For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”
Well there you have it....the very things Paul said would cease and your Maria Valvorta is just one false prophet among many demonstrating that satan is very busy in the disguise business.....who is he misleading? Gullible people who have no knowledge of the Scriptures so that they are easily taken in by the trickery. The supernatural is now the devil’s domain.

How can you tell someone who has been “blinded” that what they are seeing is not real? (2 Cor 4:3-4)
The answer is...you cannot. Because Paul says that only “unbelievers” are suffering from this kind of blindness. Only the truth can conquer the lies, but as it was in Jesus day, the majority choose the comfortable lies over an uncomfortable truth that sets them at odds with everyone else. Conformity is a big factor because no one want to stand out as different when it brings ostracism. (Matt 10: 34-39)

It’s time to wake up.

 

[Sabé]

You are on a public forum that allows civil communication between professed Christians.....we can agree to disagree, and not take things so personally that our posts become a ping pong match about who said what.

If you are angry about anything, don’t react like a child. You cannot have regrets about what you didn’t say when your feelings were out of control. Calm down and respond when your anger has subsided. Then give the kind of response that Jesus would.

I never was not calm, acting like a child, or angry. So, I don't know how you got that impression (??). All I did was reiterate what a fellow member told me, which is that he doesn't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches, and thus prefers to lie about what they teach. He demonstrated that by indicating the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism in the first place, despite, prior to that, my telling him what excommunication actually means. You may not care about honesty, but I do.

Where is my faith? Securely grounded in the Scriptures [...]

Then why do you show fear and doubt when it comes to recognizing who are true and false spokespersons of God? Jesus taught us how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15-20). What will it take for you to trust that God will make His true and false spokespersons known, just as He's always done?

The following is a list of proof in support of her writings having a supernatural origin, found in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work:

• Proof by its Knowledge, Depth, and Eminence in the Theological, Exegetical, Mystical, and Mariological Fields (Which Many World-Renowned Trustworthy Theologians Say Exceed Anything They Have Ever Read)

• Proof by Her Detailed, Exact, and Often Unparalleled Knowledge of the Political, Religious, Economic, Social, and Familial Situation—as Well as the Dress—of the Ancient Jewish, Samaritan, and Roman Peoples that Astound Even World-Renowned Biblical Scholars

• Proof by The Poem's Unquestionable Expertise, Deep Knowledge, and Exhaustive Information in Such a Wide Variety of Theological and Scientific Subjects, and the Fact Almost 15,000 Handwritten Pages of Such Was Written in Only 3½ Years Amidst Her Unusually Severe Physical Condition and Illnesses and Even Though She Lacked the Learning, Resources, and Books Required to Write a Work a Tenth as Profound as This

• Proof by the Extraordinary, Unprecedented Way in Which it Was Written, Compiled, & Put Together (Such as the Fact that 166 Out of the 647 Chapters Were Written Out of Order, and She has Jesus Ministering in Over 350 Named Locations and Traveling Over 4,000 Miles in Six Different Cycles Across Palestine, and Yet Jesus and All of the Other 500+ Characters are Never in a Place Inconsistent with Either the Story Line or the Timing and Distance Necessities Required for Traveling, and There is Not One Person, Place, or Thing Out of Place)

• Proof By the Writing's Extraordinary Purity, Holiness, Loftiness, and Eminence Among the Writings that Exist in the World

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by Research that Shows that The Poem is Not Based on (or a Mere Expansion of) any Known Gospel Manuscript Standard, Version, or School of Critical Thought, Something Expected if a Work of This Magnitude, Detail, and Accuracy Had Been a Mere Human Effort

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) in How The Poem Resolves Many Problems in the Gospel Accounts Which Scholars Have Struggled with For Years (Including Apparent Contradictions Between the Different Gospel Accounts and Apparent Errors or Inconsistencies Within the Same Gospel Account), and How It Furthermore Corrects Certain Misunderstandings and Translation Errors that Have Been Perpetuated Throughout the Centuries

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by the Fact Maria Valtorta's Visions of Christ's Passion Perfectly Match Detailed Findings on the Miraculous Shroud of Turin that Recent Modern Scientific Tests Have Revealed Decades After Her Writings Were Published and the Fact Her Writings Foretold Something Amazing About the Veil of Veronica Which Has Been Scientifically Proven for the First Time Decades After Her Death

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by its Perfect Correspondence to the Ancient Liturgical and Patristic Tradition of the Ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church

• Proof by the Testimony of Countless Trustworthy Clerics, Authorities, Experts, Scientists, and Pious Lay Faithful and the Tremendously Good Fruits Produced in Individuals and in the Church as a Whole

 

[Aunty Jane]

I never was not calm, acting like a child, or angry. So, I don't know how you got that impression (??). All I did was reiterate what a fellow member told me, which is that he doesn't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches, and thus prefers to lie about what they teach. He demonstrated that by indicating the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism in the first place, despite, prior to that, my telling him what excommunication actually means. You may not care about honesty, but I do.

You responded with language that was not Christian....can you defend your faith if you demonstrate that Christ is not leading your responses.....?

The following is a list of proof in support of her writings having a supernatural origin, found in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work:

As you have been shown from the scriptures, the supernatural is now the devil’s domain and he can only fool those who are taken in by it.
You are flogging a dead horse with this mindless repetition. Give it up......no one is falling for it.

 

[Sabé]

You responded with language that was not Christian....can you defend your faith if you demonstrate that Christ is not leading your responses.....?

What specific word(s) are you talking about?

As you have been shown from the scriptures, the supernatural is now the devil’s domain and he can only fool those who are taken in by it.

What's shown in Scripture is Jesus talking about how there will be more true and false spokespersons of God, which is why He went on to teach how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15-20), so that we aren't misled by the false ones. You're not showing faith in Jesus's words there by assuming there's no true spokespersons at all, because, again, Jesus said there would be, not just false ones.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What's shown in Scripture is Jesus talking about how there will be more true and false spokespersons of God, which is why He went on to teach how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15-20), so that we aren't misled by the false ones. You're not showing faith in Jesus's words there by assuming there's no true spokespersons at all, because Jesus there would be as well, not just false ones.

As nothing offered to you in support of what the Bible says, over what your church teaches, there is not much point in discussing anything with someone who cannot hear what is said....you are not listening to a word that is said to you, because you don’t want to hear it.

Jesus said that, in this time when we are expecting his return, he would appoint a “faithful and wise slave” who would “feed” his entire household their “food at the proper time” (Matt 24:45).....this “food” would be for the upbuilding of all of his disciples at a time when they needed it the most......at a time when the devil and his agents would be attacking his true disciples with full force, as a last ditch effort to lead them away from the teachings of the Christ before “the end” comes.

Does the Catholic church teach that we are facing the end of this entire world system? Does it prepare its people for what lies ahead as the world continues to spiral down into political, financial, spiritual, and moral chaos? What is the hope they offer....heaven or hell? That is not what Jesus taught. God put only “life or death” before his ancient people and this is also what Jesus taught. There is no option of heaven or hell...and never was.


As one who speaks to people of all faiths, let me just say that out of all who claim to be Christians, Catholic people are the most scripturally uneducated people on the planet. When asked to get their Bible to read Scripture most will bring out a catechism without knowing the difference. Who is responsible for that? Who kept their members in ignorance for centuries until their tyrannical authority was challenged by one of their own....and at the risk of his own life.....the fate of “heretics”. Was Luther a heretic.....or was he simply trying to reform his own corrupted church? From God’s perspective, they were just like the unfaithful Jewish leadership...incorrigible! People needed God’s word to read for themselves....to read what God said as opposed to what the church claimed that it said. Nothing taught by your church is true....not a single thing.
Every scripture you quote with the church’s definition of what it means, is false...and yet you believe that it is true, in spite of all the error that has been shown to you.

So do you care about the truth?

 

[Sabé]

As nothing offered to you in support of what the Bible says, over what your church teaches, there is not much point in discussing anything with someone who cannot hear what is said....you are not listening to a word that is said to you, because you don’t want to hear it.

You are the one who doesn't want to accept that in Scripture Jesus talked about how there will be more true and false spokespersons of God, which is why He went on to teach how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15-20), so that we aren't misled by the false ones. You're not showing faith in Jesus's words there by assuming there's no true spokespersons at all, because, again, Jesus said there would be, not just false ones.

 

[Wick Stick]

Thats you disagreeing with what you asserted the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches about excommunication which is a lie. Again, before expressing disagreement, your lie was indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication undoes baptism in the first place, despite my telling you what excommunication actually means prior to that, and in reply you said you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches. Therefore, with you its "To hell with what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches, I'm just gonna make up what Catholic terms mean".

No - that's your misunderstanding of what I said.

What I ACTUALLY said was quite the opposite - that excommunication CANNOT undo baptism. Here, let's quote it:

When a baptism is valid, God has adopted the baptizee. Nobody can undo what God Himself does

Can you see now? It doesn't say baptism is undone. It says baptism CAN'T be undone.

If your response to this is still to tell me I said something else, you'll be added to my Ignore list and this conversation will be over.

 

[Sabé]

No - that's your misunderstanding of what I said.

What I ACTUALLY said was quite the opposite - that excommunication CANNOT undo baptism. Here, let's quote it:

Can you see now? It doesn't say baptism is undone. It says baptism CAN'T be undone.

If your response to this is still to tell me I said something else, you'll be added to my Ignore list and this conversation will be over.

And, why did you say that baptism can't be undone by excommunication? Because before that you indicated the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches excommunication undoes one's baptism, and that is the lie you told, despite prior to that having received an explanation of what excommunication actually means and entails, because as you said, you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are the one who doesn't want to accept that in Scripture Jesus talked about how there will be more true and false spokespersons of God, which is why He went on to teach how to tell the difference between the two (Matt. 7:15-20), so that we aren't misled by the false ones. You're not showing faith in Jesus's words there by assuming there's no true spokespersons at all, because, again, Jesus said there would be, not just false ones.

Did it ever occur to you that you might be the one who is misled by the “false prophets”.

Jesus didn’t say that there would be prophets in the time of his return.....he said that there would be an appointed slave, not appointed “over” his fellow slaves, but as one of them who was given the responsibility to feed the rest, just as Jesus said to Peter.....”feed my sheep”.
There doesn’t need to be prophets after Jesus who taught us all we need to know, as you have been shown, repeatedly. You cannot see that you cannot see.....(2 Cor 4:3-3)

I am done with this thread also....I have wasted enough time in it already. I am hoping that whoever reads it might evaluate the contents for themselves and see who is teaching the truth.

 

[Wick Stick]

And, why did you say that baptism can't be undone by excommunication?

(a) Because it's true
(b) Because it was relevant to the conversation

To recap, I said that I wasn't worried about being excommunicated, because it does NOT undo Baptism.

Because before that you indicated the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches excommunication undoes one's baptism, and that is the lie you told, despite prior to that having received an explanation of what excommunication actually means and entails, because as you said, you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches.

NO - I most certainly did NOT say that. You have taken my words and tried to read-between-the-lines. You think I was implying something more. Except, I wasn't. You got it wrong. Now you're doubling-down (uh, heptapling-down?) on your own misunderstanding, repeatedly accusing me of saying something that I simply didn't say.

Now, be a man and admit your error. edit: wait, are you a woman?

 

[Sabé]

To recap, I said that I wasn't worried about being excommunicated, because it does NOT undo Baptism.

You said, "I'm not too worried about it. The Pope doesn't have the authority to undo what God has done", and thus indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication does undo Baptism, but they don't, and thus you were lying when you indicated that they do, because before you did that I had already told you what excommunication actually means, but you ignored it, because as you told me, you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches.

 

[Wick Stick]

Precisely, and thus indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication does undo Baptism, but they don't, and thus you were lying when you indicated that they do, because before you did that I had already told you what excommunication actually means, but you ignored it, because as you told me, you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches.

I'm done being told what I'm saying. You have been added my Ignore list. I won't see any of your future posts. Please have the last word.

 

[Sabé]

I'm done being told what I'm saying.

You're not being told anything. You said, "I'm not too worried about it [excommunication]. The Pope doesn't have the authority to undo [Baptism] what God has done", and thus indicating that the Christian (Catholic) Church teaches that excommunication does undo Baptism, but they don't, and thus you were lying when you indicated that they do, because before you did that I had already told you what excommunication actually means, but you ignored it, because as you told me, you don't care what the Christian (Catholic) Church actually teaches.

 

[Sabé]

Jesus didn’t say that there would be prophets in the time of his return.....

Jesus said, "By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit (Matt. 7:16-18). And, there's no verse that reads God ceased speaking to humanity.

Did it ever occur to you that you might be the one who is misled by the “false prophets”.

I didn't hear about Maria Valtorta's Work and just assumed she was a true spokesperson of God out of personal bias. Instead, I read the Work as well as the following proof in support of her writings having a supernatural origin, found in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, and came to recognize that God truly used her as His "pen".

• Proof by its Knowledge, Depth, and Eminence in the Theological, Exegetical, Mystical, and Mariological Fields (Which Many World-Renowned Trustworthy Theologians Say Exceed Anything They Have Ever Read)

• Proof by Her Detailed, Exact, and Often Unparalleled Knowledge of the Political, Religious, Economic, Social, and Familial Situation—as Well as the Dress—of the Ancient Jewish, Samaritan, and Roman Peoples that Astound Even World-Renowned Biblical Scholars

• Proof by The Poem's Unquestionable Expertise, Deep Knowledge, and Exhaustive Information in Such a Wide Variety of Theological and Scientific Subjects, and the Fact Almost 15,000 Handwritten Pages of Such Was Written in Only 3½ Years Amidst Her Unusually Severe Physical Condition and Illnesses and Even Though She Lacked the Learning, Resources, and Books Required to Write a Work a Tenth as Profound as This

• Proof by the Extraordinary, Unprecedented Way in Which it Was Written, Compiled, & Put Together (Such as the Fact that 166 Out of the 647 Chapters Were Written Out of Order, and She has Jesus Ministering in Over 350 Named Locations and Traveling Over 4,000 Miles in Six Different Cycles Across Palestine, and Yet Jesus and All of the Other 500+ Characters are Never in a Place Inconsistent with Either the Story Line or the Timing and Distance Necessities Required for Traveling, and There is Not One Person, Place, or Thing Out of Place)

• Proof By the Writing's Extraordinary Purity, Holiness, Loftiness, and Eminence Among the Writings that Exist in the World

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by Research that Shows that The Poem is Not Based on (or a Mere Expansion of) any Known Gospel Manuscript Standard, Version, or School of Critical Thought, Something Expected if a Work of This Magnitude, Detail, and Accuracy Had Been a Mere Human Effort

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) in How The Poem Resolves Many Problems in the Gospel Accounts Which Scholars Have Struggled with For Years (Including Apparent Contradictions Between the Different Gospel Accounts and Apparent Errors or Inconsistencies Within the Same Gospel Account), and How It Furthermore Corrects Certain Misunderstandings and Translation Errors that Have Been Perpetuated Throughout the Centuries

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by the Fact Maria Valtorta's Visions of Christ's Passion Perfectly Match Detailed Findings on the Miraculous Shroud of Turin that Recent Modern Scientific Tests Have Revealed Decades After Her Writings Were Published and the Fact Her Writings Foretold Something Amazing About the Veil of Veronica Which Has Been Scientifically Proven for the First Time Decades After Her Death

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by its Perfect Correspondence to the Ancient Liturgical and Patristic Tradition of the Ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church

• Proof by the Testimony of Countless Trustworthy Clerics, Authorities, Experts, Scientists, and Pious Lay Faithful and the Tremendously Good Fruits Produced in Individuals and in the Church as a Whole

Maria Valtorta wasn't a bad tree that produced evil fruit. You could see that for yourself, too, if you just give the Work a fair chance by putting aside your prejudices and bias, and read the Work and the proof in support of it having a supernatural origin, and then make your decision about it. But, don't just make assumptions.