Was Peter ever in Rome? What saith the Scriptures?

[SilenceInMotion]

The Catholic Church has always been the largest communion in the world. For a thousand years, it was the only face of Christianity there was. You can pretty much thank Rome and Greece for delivering Christianity altogether. And on a global scale, it is growing faster then all churches combined. So it doesn't really matter to me how much growth Protestant churches are doing, they are competing with each other because there is no competing the Church.

 

[Axehead]

You have the Church fathers speaking of Peter in Rome as a matter of fact, not just Roman but also Greek Orthodox *the entire preface of Christianity*. The Bible does not say he wasn't in Rome, his bones are buried in Rome, historians, BBC, national Geographic- everyone has concluded this as valid history.

You're such a funny guy, SIM. You speak, but not much of any substance comes out. "His bones are buried in Rome." Well, I guess you can't argue with that. Peter was definitely in Rome because his "bones" are there. And when were these bones found?

I don't know if you know this, but two different Catholic churches say they have recovered John the Baptist's head. Did you know that? That means, according to Catholicism, that John had two heads. You ever wonder how they even found the head? Of course not! That's what I thought. Whatever the Catholic church tells you, it must be true.

Besides Paul, very little is spoken of in Scriptures about the locations and movements of the apostles, so your attempt at using Scripture bears no real fruit. I've been to many places in my life, and I'm not even pushing 30 yet. You are arguing pretty much nothing and masquerading it as being more.

Well, you evidently did not read the opening couple of posts and the detail what the Scriptures do show.

What's more is that there was no motive to make Peter the pope of Rome. Bishopric power was shared between Greece and Roman churches untl the schism in 1054AD. The seat in Rome was simply considered sentimental and venerated, it wasn't declared prime until the schism.
It's so incredibly obvious where the whole opposition to Peter being in Rome comes from- fundamentalists who hate the papacy. They didn't go look into history and deduce that he wasn't in Rome, they try to find excuses to attack the succession of the bishops.

Then if that is the fact, why did you and others say earlier that since Peter was da pope, that he had to be very secretive while in Rome. He was so secretive, even the Church did not know about him.

Dime a dozen anti-catholic tripe, that is all it is. The same people who could never even figure out that Peter's name means 'rock' or that the Whore of Babylon existed before the Church. What a credible intitution, let me tell you.

Yep, and you're just a parroting front man. You don't know why you believe what you believe or what you even believe.

The Catholic Church has always been the largest communion in the world. For a thousand years, it was the only face of Christianity there was. You can pretty much thank Rome and Greece for delivering Christianity altogether. And on a global scale, it is growing faster then all churches combined. So it doesn't really matter to me how much growth Protestant churches are doing, they are competing with each other because there is no competing the Church.

What did Jesus say about the "broad way", my friend?

I could tell you all about it just like how I could tell you all about how Peter being the first bishop of Rome is only questioned by anti-Catholic fringe. And I can provide actual reason for those things, and not through an arbitrary dislike of something which I nitpick until I think I have a case. I could do many things, but it's in vain when spoken to people who are irreversibly fixed on believing or disbelieving something simply because they don't like it.

SIM, there is no "fringe" about it. Jesus Christ is the Head of His Church on earth and He orchestrates everything by the Holy Spirit. We don't need reasoning, or bones, or logic or greek. From Genesis through Revelation, God is known as the ROCK and JESUS is GOD.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

You're such a funny guy, SIM. You speak, but not much of any substance comes out. "His bones are buried in Rome." Well, I guess you can't argue with that. Peter was definitely in Rome because his "bones" are there. And when were these bones found?

There's a 2nd century shrine in Rome with an upside down cross and Peter's bones in it. It has been sitting there since early Christianity. It's not a new discovery, saying that Peter never went to Rome, as I've been saying through this entire thread, is stupid. It just goes to show the desperation of anti-Catholics.

Well, you evidently did not read the opening couple of posts and the detail what the Scriptures do show.

Unless Scripture explicitly states that Paul never went to Rome, then Scripture is completely irrelevant.

Anyone who wants to sit there and point at Scripture about if Peter was in Rome or not are simply full of it. How exactly does one debate against something so futile? It damns itself. What I have is history, and you have a book that says he went to certain location for an amount of time you don't even know.

The whole 'Peter never went to Rome' is made up by anti-Catholics. And go figure, they are ANTI CATHOLIC. Not hard to find the underlying intent there to make such a claim. You all are just full of yourselves; go mind your own church.

 

[Episkopos]

The Catholic Church has always been the largest communion in the world. For a thousand years, it was the only face of Christianity there was. You can pretty much thank Rome and Greece for delivering Christianity altogether. And on a global scale, it is growing faster then all churches combined. So it doesn't really matter to me how much growth Protestant churches are doing, they are competing with each other because there is no competing the Church.

The way to life is narrow and few find it. Christianity has never been a numbers game. Jesus rejected the masses who sought to make Him a king. Jesus Christ does not receive glory from men.

 

[John_8:32]

The Catholic Church has always been the largest communion in the world. For a thousand years, it was the only face of Christianity there was.

That is true, we have Pope Innocent and the inquisitors to thank for that.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

That is true, we have Pope Innocent and the inquisitors to thank for that.

Two blips on an entire 2000 year history. Go do some anti-catholic push ups and come back with something stronger.

 

[Episkopos]

Two blips on an entire 2000 year history. Go do some anti-catholic push ups and come back with something stronger.

Yeah, the Inquisition was small potatoes....

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Yeah, the Inquisition was small potatoes....

In all actuality, it really was. The Inquisitions are supremely exaggerated, with the actual torture/deathcount barely going into the triple digits. And this was over the course of 350 years, with a lot of it handed down ultimately by kings.

I will say this over and over, and even though it is the truth, you all will perpetually deny it: That's the way the world was. That's the way everybody was. It was MIDDLE AGE EARTH. Get over it. Don't point at the Church and put fault on people- be a normal human being, put away your index fingers, and swallow reality.

 

[Episkopos]

In all actuality, it really was. The Inquisitions are supremely exaggerated, with the actual torture/deathcount barely going into the triple digits. And this was over the course of 350 years, with a lot of it handed down ultimately by kings.

I will say this over and over, and even though it is the truth, you all will perpetually deny it: That's the way the world was. That's the way everybody was. It was MIDDLE AGE EARTH. Get over it. Don't point at the Church and put fault on people- be a normal human being, put away your index fingers, and swallow reality.

You said it....the human institutions are of this world. They follow the world.

 

[Axehead]

Unless Scripture explicitly states that Paul never went to Rome, then Scripture is completely irrelevant.

I think that type of thinking pretty much sums up why there are reams and reams of extra-biblical material (with supposedly the same authority of Scripture) coming out of Rome.

But, I already knew that. Thanks for putting it in writing so others can understand the reasoning behind strange doctrines that conflict with scriptures.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

You said it....the human institutions are of this world. They follow the world.

Christianity took on an entirely different definition at the time, and it didn't change with Protestantism. People did the Lord's work, they were eras of crusades, knights, militant evangelists, martyrs, and intercessors. Most of the very best and very worst Christians came from those times. These past few decades though, those such as yourself just love to act high and mighty to the hundreds of generations before you. They are the people that built this world, and those such as yourself have no respect for your fathers, which is something the Bible demands.

 

[Episkopos]

Christianity took on an entirely different definition at the time, and it didn't change with Protestantism. People did the Lord's work, they were eras of crusades, knights, militant evangelists, martyrs, and intercessors. Most of the very best and very worst Christians came from those times. These past few decades though, those such as yourself just love to act high and mighty to the hundreds of generations before you. They are the people that built this world, and those such as yourself have no respect for your fathers, which is something the Bible demands.

The church is actually the called out ones from this world. Whenever the bible mentions forefathers it is usually in a negative light...as in the sins of your fathers. But in every generation God calls a people out of the world's clutches and brings them to Zion.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The church is actually the called out ones from this world. Whenever the bible mentions forefathers it is usually in a negative light...as in the sins of your fathers. But in every generation God calls a people out of the world's clutches and brings them to Zion.

It is a very real fact that Zion could be the Whore of Babylon.

In other words, what you state is in the Old Testament, before mankind was granted the ability to infuse itself to God, and be God's arbiter, doing the Lord's work. Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I think many Christians focus on the peaceful and harmonious parts of Christianity, and neglect the other parts that echo with righteous rule and the wrath of God. The Crusades are the reason you are not Muslim right now. Marinate on that.

 

[Axehead]

In all actuality, it really was. The Inquisitions are supremely exaggerated, with the actual torture/deathcount barely going into the triple digits. And this was over the course of 350 years, with a lot of it handed down ultimately by kings.

I will say this over and over, and even though it is the truth, you all will perpetually deny it: That's the way the world was. That's the way everybody was. It was MIDDLE AGE EARTH. Get over it. Don't point at the Church and put fault on people- be a normal human being, put away your index fingers, and swallow reality.

SIM,

There is documentation of millions slaughtered over the span of 7 centuries. A far cry from 350.

Just count those that were tortured and killed in the copiously documented Martyrs Mirror.

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

The Catholic Church made the Middle Ages the "Dark Ages"

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The Church was preventing a dark age. Hereises in those times were simply detrimental to society. The world did not have the knowledge we have now. To disgrace the truth of God was to forsake your very soul.

You don't want to understand that because you are too busy trying to condemn the Church. Everybody was superstitious then. I mean, what do you have to say to that? Call an insitution evil because of a trait they were inhereited with? The MIDDLE AGES. Let it sink into your brain. Luther and Calvin burnt Catholics at the stake and supported the persecution of Jews.

There is no blaming anybody, there is accepting history, and anti-Catholics need to learn that real quick, or you will lose your voice in being an integral institution yourselves.

 

[Episkopos]

It is a very real fact that Zion could be the Whore of Babylon.

In other words, what you state is in the Old Testament, before mankind was granted the ability to infuse itself to God, and be God's arbiter, doing the Lord's work. Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I think many Christians focus on the peaceful and harmonious parts of Christianity, and neglect the other parts that echo with righteous rule and the wrath of God. The Crusades are the reason you are not Muslim right now. Marinate on that.

Again you are seeing through the physical carnal understanding. Jesus does not have mongol hordes for followers. The sword is the truth....not the physical implement that takes away life. Try marinating on that!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Crusades are the reason you are not Muslim right now. Marinate on that.

Not true. The reason Europe wasn't overrun by Muslims was because Charles Martel (the Hammer) stopped their advance in southern Europe, and Slavic tribes north of the Caucasus Mtns stopped them from advancing through eastern Europe.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Not true. The reason Europe wasn't overrun by Muslims was because Charles Martel (the Hammer) stopped their advance in southern Europe, and Slavic tribes north of the Caucasus Mtns stopped them from advancing through eastern Europe.

Yeah, in the 8th century. The Crusades didn't end until the 13th.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah, in the 8th century. The Crusades didn't end until the 13th.

Yes but, the Muslims weren't threatening Europe at that time. Heck it took them several centuries just to boot the Europeans out of the mid-East, much less invade Europe.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Yes but, the Muslims weren't threatening Europe at that time. Heck it took them several centuries just to boot the Europeans out of the mid-East, much less invade Europe.

That's because Europeans were crusading. King Richard himself was a crusader. Take away that Christian zeal and Muslims would have eventually taken over.

When it's all said and done, you have to thank middle age Christians for defending your religion. Anti-Catholics need to simply drop it. Ther ei snothing but attack after attack, denial after denial, and excuse after excuse, to keep some anti-Catholic agenda propped up.

You all try to discredit or demonize every single thing Catholciism has done. A 2000 year old institution with a grand history that shped the entire western world. And all for the sole reason of being so zealous of your beliefs that you can't let even history illustrate accurately. It's sickening.
Anti-Catholics are waste of oxygen.