Axehead said:
Continuiing the fallacious argument of popishness.
And your reasons for calling it fallacious is? What exactly?
Going back to a previous point: - as Selene has pointed out Jesus and the apostles called men Father, thus we cannot take Jesus' words as they appear.
I think argument that Jesus said "call no man Father" and Catholics call their priests Father is a problem with language, specifically the the logical fallacy of
equivocation – the word “call” is used with two different meanings.
Firstly
Catholics “call” priests father.
The Collins Concise Dictionary gives 28 [yes, twenty eight] different meanings to the verb “call”. Some of these are specialist terms (e.g. to “call” at poker), but a couple are relevant here:.
8. (tr) to name or style: they called the dog Rover.
9. (tr) designate: they called him a coward.
or as the Concise Oxford English Dictionary [less comprehensive with only 8 meanings] puts it:- “[3.] give a specified name to. address by a specified name, title, etc.”
According to a Greek Orthodox priest, who is also a Greek translator, the word translated “call” in Mt 23:9 is misunderstood. I do not understand the technicalities of Greek but apparently the word used (kalesete) is not any of those used to imply a name or title, but means summon or call forth and is in the second person aorist active subjunctive plural form (and no, I don’t understand what that is!).
It’s the same word that is translated call in Mt 9:13, Mk 2:17 & Lk 5:32. “For I came not to call (kalesai) the righteous, but sinners.”
This would be the following from the Collins Concise Dictionary
1. to speak out or utter (words, sounds etc.) loudly so as to attract attention
2. (tr) to ask or order to come
or as the Concise Oxford English Dictionary put it:- “[1.] cry out to (someone) in order to summon them or attract their attention.”
I suggest this is the meaning that Jesus was using - to callout, to summon, to attract the Father's attention in prayer. Jesus tells us in Matthews 6:5-15 how to pray, not loudly attractings men's attention as the hypocrites did, but quietly in private.
This is a different meaning of “call” to that used when Protestants say Catholics "call" their priests father, meaning they adress them as Father. Following this understanding means there is no contradiction in scripture, or in Catholics “calling” their priests father.
If we said Catholics "address" their priests as Father and Jesus said "call" no man Father there would be no problem (and no fun attacking Catholics either
).
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