WATCH!

[claninja]

Rev 5
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

the KJV, which uses the textus receptus, has the Greek words for “us” in vs 9 and 10. Contextually grammatically this refers to the 24 elders and 4 beasts. In other words, the 24 elders and 4 beasts were redeemed by God out of every kindred, tongue, nation, etc… and they were also made kings and priests to rule over the earth.

Is it your position that the elders and beasts represent the church?

However, this position is not strong. Bible translations that don’t rely on the textus receptus have the Greek word “them” instead of “us” because the vast majority of manuscripts don’t contain the Greek word “us”. A footnote from the NET translation on revelation 5:9-10—>

“The vast majority of witnesses have αὐτούς (autous, “them”) here, while the Textus Receptus reads ἡμᾶς (Jhmas, “us”) with insignificant support (pc gig vgcl sa Prim Bea). There is no question that the original text read αὐτούς here.”

In otherwords the vast majority of manuscripts on revelation 5:9-10 have the 24 elders and 4 beasts singing NOT about themselves being redeemed and made kingly priests, but about other persons being redeemed and being made a kingly priesthood:

NET
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation. You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth

so I disagree with your argument, that revelation 5 has the church being in heaven.

Six kings have already happened. The next king is the 7th king. The rider on the white horse is given a crown.

If you can't see it, it's okay. There's no shame in that.

Where does revelation claim the rider in the white horse is the 7th king ?

Revelation was originally written in Greek. The Greek word stephanos is what was in the original Greek. It is the leaf crown of victory.

That’s not what I asked. Where are you getting that it’s about the UN?

How many kings are there. There will be 8. The next king is the 7th king. If you don't understand that the next king will be the rider on the white horse, there's no shame in that.

Where does revelation state the rider in the white horse in the 7th king?

Try reading Revelation 5. It occurs before Rev. 6 which starts with the 1st seal rider on the white horse.
If you can't grasp the concept that 5 comes before 6 then there is shame in that. It's these public schools.

I went to Christian grade school and high school….. who is that statement about “public schools” directed at?

I’m pretty sure you are aware our discussion is not about 5 coming before 6. Such is a childish remark.

the discussion is about the church being in heaven prior to the antichrist confirming a covenant. You still haven’t provided enough evidence for this claim.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Obviously, by your continually posting the SAME STATEMEMT over and over, you think that means it will be effective in swaying brethren here. No, it's instead a sign of desperation.

Yawn.
Go harass someone else.

 

[WPM]

Yawn.
Go harass someone else.

You have nothing to bring to the table but insults and avoidance.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You have nothing to bring to the table but insults and avoidance.

You just brought nothing .
You did your insulting.
...as expected.
Hippocrite.
Go play.

 

[rebuilder 454]

None of this, clearly or specifically, mentions Jesus saying there will be a Pre trib rapture.

Looking at Jesus’ words in the olivet discourse - the fleeing of Jerusalem occurs PRIOR to the great tribulation, but the gathering of the elect by the angels occurs AFTER the great tribulation.

Which part are applying the rapture to? The fleeing from Jerusalem PRIOR to the great tribulation or the gathering of the elect by the ANGELS after the great tribulation?

Nothing says Jesus tied his sandals.
Therefore they were straps.
Nowhere does it say Jesus ate fruit.
So he never did.
Nowhere does it say he brushed his teeth,.
So he never did.

The pretrib rapture is VIVIDLY PORTRAYED.
VIVIDLY.
MAT 24
Jesus said his coming will be before the flood/ trib.
He SAID he will gather half of a group.
( then HE SAID IT AGAIN 10 SENTECES LATER..1/2 GATHERED. )
Jesus said " pretrib half are gathered...watch and be ready."

But but but, he didn't actually use the word "raptured".

Really??????

 

[rebuilder 454]

All rapture verses are pretrib.

 

[WPM]

You just brought nothing .
You did your insulting.
...as expected.
Hippocrite.
Go play.

Countless posts on here remain avoided. That is because you cannot handle being challenged. Numerous questions have been avoided. Why? Your teaching is erroneous.

• Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
• Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?
• Where is your tribulation period following Matthew 24:44 (or any other rapture passage)?
• Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
• Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
• Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
• Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
• Show us any Scripture that teaches there are "two" future "raptures"?
• Where in the Bible does it teach that "the fig tree having two harvests are referring to two raptures”?
• Where in the Scriptures does it teach that “the two folds of sheep are referring to two raptures”?
• Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?
• Show us any Scripture that teaches "the Church is removed before the great tribulation, which is the time of testing"?
• Show us any Scripture that teaches there is a "one-year wrath of God"?
• Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word that describes God having “two brides in heaven during Gods wrath”?

 

[WPM]

All rapture verses are pretrib.

LOL. Again, zero evidence. It is all in your head.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The AC kills ALL REFUSING THE MARK.
Every man woman, and child receives the mark or dies.

There CAN NOT BE any saint "going through" the trib.
Ahem....where in all that is some made up postrib rapture of live saints??????

Postrib rapture is impossible.
But some tirelessly refute the bible.

....with zero verses...
With no verses.
None.
They just know in their minds they hate the idea of a pretrib rapture.
In their zeal, they center on "tribulation" .
Their entire deal is "tribulation".

 

[The Light]

the KJV, which uses the textus receptus, has the Greek words for “us” in vs 9 and 10. Contextually grammatically this refers to the 24 elders and 4 beasts. In other words, the 24 elders and 4 beasts were redeemed by God out of every kindred, tongue, nation, etc… and they were also made kings and priests to rule over the earth.

Do you think that the 24 elders were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation?

I would say that would impossible. The kings and priests are the ones that are redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. They are the Church.

Is it your position that the elders and beasts represent the church?

No, my position is what the Word says. The 24 elders are 24 elders. They have crowns which means Jesus has come. The kings and priests that are out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation are the Church.

However, this position is not strong. Bible translations that don’t rely on the textus receptus have the Greek word “them” instead of “us” because the vast majority of manuscripts don’t contain the Greek word “us”. A footnote from the NET translation on revelation 5:9-10—>

Us, them it doesn't really matter. It is referring to the kings and priests that come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.... the Church.

“The vast majority of witnesses have αὐτούς (autous, “them”) here, while the Textus Receptus reads ἡμᾶς (Jhmas, “us”) with insignificant support (pc gig vgcl sa Prim Bea). There is no question that the original text read αὐτούς here.”

In otherwords the vast majority of manuscripts on revelation 5:9-10 have the 24 elders and 4 beasts singing NOT about themselves being redeemed and made kingly priests, but about other persons being redeemed and being made a kingly priesthood:

Exactly my point. The others are the Church.

so I disagree with your argument, that revelation 5 has the church being in heaven.

Understood. But the 24 elders have crowns which prove that Jesus come.

Where does revelation claim the rider in the white horse is the 7th king ?
Where does revelation state the rider in the white horse in the 7th king?

The next person to receive a crown is the rider on the white horse.......the false savior. There are no other kings mentioned in Revelation besides the rider on the white horse and the eighth king who was and is not and will come again. Scripture tells us who the eighth king is.

That’s not what I asked. Where are you getting that it’s about the UN?

In case you are unaware, the thing that has been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun. This is about world government. No man will be able to buy or sell without the mark.

As far as the UN goes the rider on the white horse is given the stephanos crown the symbol of the UN and this will become a world government soon after the Church is raptured.

the discussion is about the church being in heaven prior to the antichrist confirming a covenant. You still haven’t provided enough evidence for this claim.

1. The 24 elders are in heaven proving that Jesus has come.
2. The kings and priests redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation are the Church in heaven.
3. The Antichrist will not be in power until the seals are opened which occurs after the Church is in heaven.
4. The Antichrist cannot confirm a covenant until he is in power.
5. There is not a map drawn that has bells ringing and flags flying showing when the rapture of the Church happens. That's because the Lord will come in a time that we think not. He could not do that if Revelation showed exactly when He comes. We need to be watching and ready. However, if we go by scripture we can see the Church in heaven.

 

[The Light]

There CAN NOT BE any saint "going through" the trib.

The Jews go through the great tribulation.

They are raptured at the 6th seal shown here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are no believers that go through the wrath of God. All are raptured.

Those in Israel the flee to a place of protection when the AOD is setup will remain on the earth in a protected place during the wrath of God.

Isaiah 26
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Jews go through the great tribulation.

They are raptured at the 6th seal shown here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are no believers that go through the wrath of God. All are raptured.

Those in Israel the flee to a place of protection when the AOD is setup will remain on the earth in a protected place during the wrath of God.

Isaiah 26
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Hold on now, what jews are His people?

Galatians 3

Sons and Heirs​

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Scott Downey]

As far as God views His people there are neither jews, nor gentiles, they are all one in Christ who have put on Christ.

As Paul says we no longer regard anyone according to the flesh because either Jew or Gentile are no more separated, they are a new creation in Christ.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5 - New King James Version

Assurance of the Resurrection - For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having...

www.biblegateway.com

12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[The Light]

Hold on now, what jews are His people?

Galatians 3

Sons and Heirs​

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are told not to be ignorant of this mystery.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Scott Downey]

We are told not to be ignorant of this mystery.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

But see, you can only regard them according to the flesh if they are unsaved. Their blindness to the gospel, and they are also enemies of the gospel, until they believe in Christ. No unbelieving jews are saved or raptured to be with Christ.

 

[The Light]

But see, you can only regard them according to the flesh if they are unsaved. Their blindness to the gospel, and they are also enemies of the gospel, until they believe in Christ. No unbelieving jews are saved or raptured to be with Christ.

Exactly. As Romans 11:25 shows, after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed.

We also know this.

Romans 11
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

 

[Scott Downey]

Exactly. As Romans 11:25 shows, after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed.

We also know this.

Romans 11
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

of course we will see that but still only a remnant will be saved, yet it will be all those God unblinds to the gospel. The elect will obtain salvation while the rest remain blinded.


Romans 11
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

And Romans 10

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And Romans 9
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

 

[claninja]

Do you think that the 24 elders were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation?

I would say that would impossible. The kings and priests are the ones that are redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. They are the Church.
No, my position is what the Word says. The 24 elders are 24 elders. They have crowns which means Jesus has come. The kings and priests that are out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation are the Church.
Us, them it doesn't really matter. It is referring to the kings and priests that come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.... the Church.
Exactly my point. The others are the Church.
Understood. But the 24 elders have crowns which prove that Jesus come.

You didn’t provide any explanation, you only posted the KJV (textus receptus) of revelation 5, which has the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE singing that God had redeemed them (elders and beasts) and made them(elders and beast) a kingly priesthood.

So it seemed like your argument was that the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE represent the church who were redeemed and made kingly priesthood. Thus the church is in heaven before the throne.

But after your clarification, you don’t seem to believe the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE represent the church?

So I still have no idea where you are getting that the church is in heaven in revelation 5? Revelation 5 says nothing about the church being in heaven. Are you making this up?

The next person to receive a crown is the rider on the white horse.......the false savior. There are no other kings mentioned in Revelation besides the rider on the white horse and the eighth king who was and is not and will come again. Scripture tells us who the eighth king is

The rider on the white horse is never called a king. So that’s wrong, In fact the Greek word for crown in relation 6 is different than the Greek word for the crown that the beast is given.

So your position is still without evidence.

In case you are unaware, the thing that has been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun. This is about world government. No man will be able to buy or sell without the mark.

As far as the UN goes the rider on the white horse is given the stephanos crown the symbol of the UN and this will become a world government soon after the Church is raptured.

Revelation doesn’t say it represents the UN. You seem to making this up.

1. The 24 elders are in heaven proving that Jesus has come.
2. The kings and priests redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation are the Church in heaven.
3. The Antichrist will not be in power until the seals are opened which occurs after the Church is in heaven.
4. The Antichrist cannot confirm a covenant until he is in power.
5. There is not a map drawn that has bells ringing and flags flying showing when the rapture of the Church happens. That's because the Lord will come in a time that we think not. He could not do that if Revelation showed exactly when He comes. We need to be watching and ready. However, if we go by scripture we can see the Church in heaven.

You keep “we go by scripture” but you haven’t produced 1 single scripture that says the church is in heaven prior to the antichrist. You can’t even show where in revelation 5 it says the church is in heaven….so I don’t know where you are getting any of this.

 

[The Light]

You didn’t provide any explanation, you only posted the KJV (textus receptus) of revelation 5, which has the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE singing that God had redeemed them (elders and beasts) and made them(elders and beast) a kingly priesthood.

If you think that 24 elders and 4 beasts come are redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation you can run with that. However, I understand that that is completely impossible. A little common sense should tell you the same.

So it seemed like your argument was that the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE represent the church who were redeemed and made kingly priesthood. Thus the church is in heaven before the throne.

But after your clarification, you don’t seem to believe the elders and beasts IN HEAVEN BEFORE THE THRONE represent the church?

No. That is not at all what I said. I said that the 24 elders are 24 elders. They are not the Church. However, they have crowns and prove without any shadow of doubt that Christ has returned and His reward was with Him.

I have no clue why you are unable to grasp the FACT that Church is the kings and priests redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. The Church is not 24 elders. The Church is not 4 beasts.

So I still have no idea where you are getting that the church is in heaven in revelation 5? Revelation 5 says nothing about the church being in heaven. Are you making this up?

I already showed you in Revelation 1 that the Church is made kings and priests.

We have kings and priests REDEEMED out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation before the throne.

Bingo the Church is in heaven BEFORE the 7 seals are opened.

It's a simple thing.

So I still have no idea where you are getting that the church is in heaven in revelation 5? Revelation 5 says nothing about the church being in heaven. Are you making this up?

That's the confusing part.............you have no idea. And yet I have posted the FACTS time after time. Some people just can't see. Why, I don't know. Jesus said those with eyes to see and ears to hear for a reason.

The rider on the white horse is never called a king. So that’s wrong, In fact the Greek word for crown in relation 6 is different than the Greek word for the crown that the beast is given.

There are two beasts.

So your position is still without evidence.

That would be a rarity. I think the problem is that you do not understand that there are different beasts.

Revelation doesn’t say it represents the UN. You seem to making this up.

Covenant with many. Stephanos crown. Doesn't seem like a stretch.

You keep “we go by scripture” but you haven’t produced 1 single scripture that says the church is in heaven prior to the antichrist. You can’t even show where in revelation 5 it says the church is in heaven….so I don’t know where you are getting any of this.

He that have eyes to see and ears to hear................. The text is clear to those that can see.

 

[claninja]

Nothing says Jesus tied his sandals.
Therefore they were straps.
Nowhere does it say Jesus ate fruit.
So he never did.
Nowhere does it say he brushed his teeth,.
So he never did.

Non sequitor.

Since Jesus never taught that Sasquatch isn’t real, I can Therefore argue Jesus knew Sasquatch is real?

The pretrib rapture is VIVIDLY PORTRAYED.
VIVIDLY.
MAT 24
Jesus said his coming will be before the flood/ trib.
He SAID he will gather half of a group.
( then HE SAID IT AGAIN 10 SENTECES LATER..1/2 GATHERED. )
Jesus said " pretrib half are gathered...watch and be ready."

But but but, he didn't actually use the word "raptured".

Really??????

Jesus never said his coming will be before the flood/trib in Matthew 24. You made that up.

Jesus never said he would gather “half of a group” in Matthew 24. You made that up.

In the olivet discourse, Matthew 24:1-34, assuming I agree the rapture = the gathering, where do you believe Jesus mentions the rapture? Which verse?