WE NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN.

[theefaith]

In our bibles we are being told by Paul that IF you are a Christian, there is NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL that there is any condemnation from God towards you. Ever. No condemnation. We are also being told that we are the children of God – and that this relationship with God is based, not on FEAR, but upon LOVE. Also, we are being told that God is FOR us – and that because of that, nothing and no one can stand against us. And finally, we are being told that there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER that can come between us and the love of God in Christ Jesus. We are also told that we do not have to EARN our Salvation by works but that it is a FREE gift, and that we are accepted by God because of our FAITH.

ü Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

ü In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John:17-19

ü If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31

ü For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-19

ü For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9


These assurances are describing, not only God’s attitude towards us, but they are describing our RELATIONSHIP with Him through Christ. We could list many other verses. But these four strike at the heart and core of so many of the problems we have in our Christian walk.

All true but there is a big IF in there. Terms and conditions still apply in God's Kingdom. And not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian. Not all church goers are Christians. Not all clergy, including bishops and priests, are born again Christians. Not everyone who was Christened/’baptised’ as a baby is a born again Christian. Not everybody who has a title in front of their name is a Christian. Not everybody who was brought up by Christian parents is a Christian. This is something I was taught by the lovely Spirit filled C of E vicar who led me to Christ over thirty years ago. I thought I was a Christian but I wasn’t. You have to make your own choice.

Some of these and other similar truths were listed in the front of a little booklet called 'Journey Into Life' which I read and responded to all those years ago. It is still true today. There is only one way to be a Christian and that is to repent, seek forgiveness die to self and turn your life over to Jesus, ask him to come into your heart - because if Jesus isn’t in your HEART whatever you do is just empty religion.

You need to be born again.

how does one become born again?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

how does one become born again?

John 3:
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[theefaith]

John 3:
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

A one time simple act of faith?
Then I can go back to the topless bar and get drunk?
Faith alone?

What must we believe?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A one time simple act of faith?
Then I can go back to the topless bar and get drunk?
Faith alone?

What must we believe?

Did he say they MAY have eternal life?
Did he say they MAY not perish?
Did he say they MIGHT not be condemned?

Which is it?

Did he say he who believes and does the sacraments? Did he say he who believes and does works? Did he say he who believes and does anything?
Or did he just say he who has faith?

 

[Pearl]

how does one become born again?

I hope this isn't a trick question. What I'll tell you is how I came to be born again.

I believed in the God I had heard of in Sunday School I didn’t go to church back then, but I wanted my son Christened because I thought I was a Christian, and that it was the right thing for Christian parents to do.

When the time came to go and see the vicar about it, I was terrified because I had been divorced and felt that I was condemned by God forever. I thought I would get out of it by letting Ray go to the vicarage, to make the arrangements, on his own. But I didn’t get out of it so easily though, because the vicar came round to the house. He was so nice and talked about Jesus and left us a little book called ‘Journey Into Life’.

During the next few days I read that book and it made me realize that whatever I had done, God loved me and wanted to forgive me. I said the prayer that was in the book and that was the true beginning of my Christian life. And when I stood up in church on the Sunday of the Christening, and the vicar asked “Do you turn to Christ, do you repent of your sin, do you renounce evil?” I really and truly meant it when I replied “I turn to Christ, I repent of my sins, I renounce evil”. And that, for me, was the turning point. I was born again. I was made new. I discovered what being a Christian was all about and my life was changed forever.

Next day everything seemed brighter but of course, like any new-born, I didn’t know much about it at the time; but babies grow and from that day I began to experience a gradual, deepening awareness of the true meaning of life and of Jesus as a real person. I came to know God as a father. Just like a baby begins to recognise his parents, so I began to recognise God and to love him deeply; to know that even when things were far from easy he was there for me.

And that’s how I was born again. But just as each woman experiences the births of her children in a different though similar way so Christians go through a similar but individual experience.

 

[theefaith]

Did he say they MAY have eternal life?
Did he say they MAY not perish?
Did he say they MIGHT not be condemned?

Which is it?

Did he say he who believes and does the sacraments? Did he say he who believes and does works? Did he say he who believes and does anything?
Or did he just say he who has faith?

Yes mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

 

[theefaith]

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[theefaith]


Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[theefaith]

“Baptismal regeneration” is the initiation into the new covenant!

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

Metaphorical or implied meaning of baptism!

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

The blood signifies the infinite merits of Christ!
The water signifies baptism!

Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Psalm 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations;

Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

1 pet 3:20-21

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[theefaith]

Act 2:38-41
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Saved by baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Who said anything about mark 16? Stick to john 3 my friend. Why do you people alway go to mark, If water baptism was required. Jesus would have said so in John 3 and the many other passages in John where he said how to be saved.

 

[amadeus]

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

You always want to make it so lengthy and complicated! It really is so simple for the simple and sincere heart...

 

[theefaith]

Who said anything about mark 16? Stick to john 3 my friend. Why do you people alway go to mark, If water baptism was required. Jesus would have said so in John 3 and the many other passages in John where he said how to be saved.

you did Post 124

Quote: Did he say he who believes and does the sacraments?

yes Mk 16:16

 

[theefaith]

You always want to make it so lengthy and complicated! It really is so simple for the simple and sincere heart...

Only one tiny itsy bitsy simple little act of faith????

 

[amadeus]

Only one tiny itsy bitsy simple little act of faith????

Yes, start simple as God draws and leads us. How far we must go or can go or do go depends on us! There is no limit with God.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, start simple as God draws and leads us. How far we must go or can go or do go depends on us! There is no limit with God.

what happened the great faith of old?
And to the abundant life of Christ!

man oak tree does not produce one acorn! But thousands! God’s Providence is abundant!

Glory to God!

 

[amadeus]

what happened the great faith of old?

I could give you some testimonies of the faith manifested through men today, but what does that have to do with our discussion? Would you believe the testimonies if not directly connected to or approved by the Catholic Church?

God has never changed. People with no faith or little faith or great faith exist today... whether you believe it or not. That is what I believe.

And to the abundant life of Christ!

Lots of people in churches today, including both Protestants and Catholics in my experience have chosen to pursue abundant death, but the abundant life Jesus brought is here now available to whosoever will. Some have taken hold of it.

man oak tree does not produce one acorn! But thousands! God’s Providence is abundant!

Why did you say that? What is the 'oak tree' for you? What is the Body of Christ? Where from come the children of God? Where does Jesus now rest his head?

Give God the glory, indeed!

 

[theefaith]

I could give you some testimonies of the faith manifested through men today, but what does that have to do with our discussion? Would you believe the testimonies if not directly connected to or approved by the Catholic Church?

God has never changed. People with no faith or little faith or great faith exist today... whether you believe it or not. That is what I believe.

Lots of people in churches today, including both Protestants and Catholics in my experience have chosen to pursue abundant death, but the abundant life Jesus brought is here now available to whosoever will. Some have taken hold of it.


Why did you say that? What is the 'oak tree' for you? What is the Body of Christ? Where from come the children of God? Where does Jesus now rest his head?

Give God the glory, indeed!

Oak tree only an example of God’s Providence does not represent anything

 

[amadeus]

Oak tree only an example of God’s Providence does not represent anything

If it represents nothing, would it be better not to mention it at all?

What is God's Providence? Is that nothing?

 

[theefaith]

If it represents nothing, would it be better not to mention it at all?

What is God's Providence? Is that nothing?

just an example of the abundant Providence of God