The second part of verse 1 comes from verse 4, which KJV translators added to verse 1 to make it more clear that it’s a conditional passage.
It’s too clear to obfuscate with OSAS claims.
WE NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN.
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It’s too clear to obfuscate with OSAS claims.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
again, James spoke to people who claimed to have faith but only had mere belief.
Not everyone James spoke to were born again. In fact this is true of every NT book..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
and if we look at the worlds religions.
the wide gate is legalism, people thinking the must earn salvation by being good. Doing some religious works. and going to church etc etc.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
if it was added. its not part of scripture
There is no more condemnation to those in Christ period.
not sure how OSAS came into the discussion.
I would be interested to see your hermeneutical exercise validating that statement. I think with proper exegesis of James 5 we see him warning believers by providing exhortations on being ready for the coming of the Lord. In order to wander from the truth, you had to have had the truth.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
many people have the truth
I know many people who know the gospel. They can repeat it to me. But these people have not yet recieved the truth and acted on it
I also know many people that know the truth, But chose instead to operate on their own truth.
Just because one knows the gospel does not mean they are saved.
you still have to choose
or are all those on the narrow road automatically self-righteous
grace enables those who are in Christ to practice virtue!
how do you know you are “born again”?
You are supposing that James is talking to unbelievers. You're missing the context of the chapter.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
the narrow road is not legalism. Or a works based gospel
It is trusting in Christ alone for salvation.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You assume they are all believers
In doing so you have made your own context.
Everyone makes their own context based on what they assume.
In my own church when I teach I assume not everyone in my audience is a believer. I make my message applicable to all of them.
Again, we can look to james 2 and other passages to see James is talking to all groups. Saved but walking, saved no walking, and unsaved claiming to be saved. I am sure there are some who are just trying christianity out to and have nt made a decision yet
Matt 5 blessed are the merciful they shall receive mercy
but will be self-righteous
I maintain that it is impossible for a man to be self-righteous!
but will be self-righteous
I maintain that it is impossible for a man to be self-righteous!
One of the tendencies the Pharisees had was to ask Jesus questions opening to entrap Him with His answer. He had to spend some time explaining things to them - things like Jn 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
Now you might think that Jesus was putting them down, but in fact He was always trying to get them to start seeking to hear from God (Him), by using their spiritual ears!!
Jn “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
How can a Christian who knows the Lord because they are hearing the Holy Spirit speak to them the words of our Lord Jesus Christ via that small voice of His not know about His kingdom???
There is really only one possible reason, and that is that they don't hear with their spiritual ears!
Jesus Christ is the King over the kingdom of heaven. But if the King, then there are those under Him - angelic beings! Of them it is written:
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?
So it is that those who follow the Lord do so by hearing with their spiritual ears! And they not only come to know the Lord but also angels in His kingdom because those angels are "ministering spirits" sent to help us. So, we get to know the King and also find ourselves dealing with (getting ministered to by) the angels sent to minister to us.
Dan 8:114,15 When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and behold, standing before me was one who looked like a man. And I heard the voice of a man between the banks of Ulai, and he called out and said, “Gabriel, give this man an understanding of the vision.”
In the above verse the man is Jesus Christ and Gabriel is of course and angel instructed to minister to Daniel. And if we indeed get to know the King of kings and Lord of lords, we have ears to hear this type of conversation - and note this happened in a vision! Also note that Daniel was seeking understanding by seeking the Lord!
If you know the King of kings you understand this simply because you have ears to hear and you seek the Lord for understanding!!
So again - who asks "What does this mean?" when it is pointed out that His kingdom is not of this world? It must be someone not hearing with their spiritual ears!
I don't write this to offend anyone but rather to get them to start seeking our Lord Jesus Christ for understanding, by hearing with faith! Many are leaning on their own understanding and not actually seeking the Lord for understanding! That needs to change! If you are born again you hear the sound of the wind!! Yet also Jesus is always just standing there trying to get our attention, so that all we need to do is open up to Him! Of course He will reprove you - just FYI
Rev 3:19,20 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
And notice, there is that "repent" statement in the above verses. John's water baptism was supposed to get people to repent of their ways. If you don't repent and turn to the Lord and listen to Him, of what use was that water baptism to you? So get baptized as a sign you actually intend to repent of your ways and start seeking the voice of the Lord for understanding!
Yes faith and repentance are required (for adults) to receive baptism
but baptism is what justifies and makes us a new creation in Christ
No Jesus Christ is who makes us a new creation, because He is the Creator!!
Have you not read the parable of the sower??
The seeds are a word from the Sower - Him!! If the seek, which is a word from Him, takes root in you then you grow. That is why it is written that faith comes from hearing, and that His sheep hear His voice, and also why it is written about some that with their ears they don't hear!! It is why you must be born again, which mean you hear the sound of the wind.
Now that baptism of the Lord is an immersion in His Holy Spirit - who speaks to us. The Holy Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks, so the Holy Spirit acts like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ. That is to say the Sower (Jesus Christ) speaks, the Holy Spirit hears and brings those words of God for us which come from our Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God and God, and we His sheep hear them! If you are truly immersed/Baptized in the Holy Spirit you would be hearing from Him (Jesus Christ) everyday called "Today" and throughout the day. Though a new Christian might start by just hearing a word, so we can't say they are yet immersed in the Holy Spirit, though they are born again, meaning they are a new creature with the seed planted in them. Still, even that is getting a bit religious. It just means they started hearing from the Lord.
Now a religious person makes it about religion (their understanding of God) as opposed to making it about the Lord our God Jesus Christ and following Him by listening to His voice, and getting His understanding. Listening to His voice is how you make it about His understanding. If you are not listening to Him then you must lean on your own understanding and teachings you got from others!! So your baptism did you no good at all - because you never repent of your ways!! You continue to lean on your own understanding as opposed to listening to Him. The Word of God to you starts becoming the sacred writings, traditions, and religious routines - and your heart is not near Him. If you heart was near Him you would talk to Him everyday. He would become the Word of God to you - which matches up with what the Scriptures have written in them. You would hear from the Creator and understand that a creation, new or otherwise, is from Jesus Christ not baptism!! You would understand that you have replace Him, the Creator, Jesus Christ with religious traditions and routines!
Yet Jesus told Nicodemus that he didn't accept their testimony!! So, we who know Him testify about Him and yet some don't accept that testimony, about hearing. Nicodemus didn't hear the sound of the wind (Holy Spirit), but he considered himself a teacher of the law. Nicodemus, didn't accept the testimony of those who did hear from the Holy Spirit who brings the words of Jesus Christ. Nicodemus needed to be born again, which means he needed to start hearing from the Holy Spirit who brings the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ!!
Now over and over I have written about hearing from the Lord Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. Anyone baptized in the Holy Spirit would understand, but being baptized in water and having someone say "In the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit" does not get that done. That is a symbolic act that is supposed to get a person to repent of their ways and start seeking the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ to find out about His ways, but the symbolic act is only a symbolic act and nothing more. Just like getting circumcised was a symbolic act, and the religious Jews made it about that instead of knowing Jesus Christ, Also God passed down festivals and people started making it about the festivals but their hearts were far from the Lord. Christmas is coming up but we have gone so far off that Santa Claus is now the main Character. Even those who remember that it symbolizes that Christ came and died for us often do not think that He is the living and active Word of God. They say in their hearts that He must either be dead still or He is in some far-off place called heaven to return someday - forgetting that the Word of God we preach is near us, in our hearts and even found in our mouths, because the Father, Son, and Spirit are still working to this very day, so the Holy Spirit "Today" is still bring to our spirit the words of the Lord our God Jesus Christ!!
So how is it you write that the baptism saves us instead of Jesus Christ???????????????????
Do you not even know that Jesus means God's salvation???????????????
If you get to know Him, He will plunge, dunk, bath, baptize, you in His Holy Spirit - but that just means you are hearing His voice every day!! How is it many don't understand this? It is still true that with their ears they don't hear, isn't it?
He speaks in parables and saying, which mean you need to talk to Him to have understanding!!!
Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
I pointed out that hearing the sound of the wind means hearing the Holy Spirit, but someone (was it you) who thought it was just hearing the physical wind got by. There mind is on the things of this world and the misinterpretation came as a result of not hearing from the Holy Spirit.
When it reads water and the spirit; do you not understand that the sound of heaven is like many waters???
We not only have a King but because Jesus Christ is the King of heaven we also have access to the "many waters". We are not only baptism, dunked, plunged, submerged - into the King via His Holy Spirit but also the Kingdom of God (the many waters). I had to explain this early about what is meant by His kingdom not being of this realm, and I have to explain it again because some have ears but don't hear.
Prov 3:54 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
The only way to not lean on your own understanding is to start taking things to Jesus Christ and listening to Him. He made the heavens and the earth!! Which if you talk to Him, you find out that He put things here on earth to show us things about heaven. It is not just the Bible He uses to teach us, but He made all things and He had reasons for them.
Now God is spirit, and His thoughts are not our thoughts nor are His ways are ways. The way to really figure that out is to start actually talking to Him and listening to what He has to say. He is not really that concerned about the physical like we are. Because He is spirit, He looks at things from mostly a spiritual perspective, and that tends to be His view point. And we are not going to be in these physical bodies of our very long. Even if you live to be 120 what is that compare to eternity? So guess what; He tends to talk in spiritual terms, which can easily throw off. We are like those disciples who after seeing everyone feed started getting confused about the bread Jesus was talking about.
Mat 16:11 “How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
That is what we are talking about here. Religious leaders tend to puff themselves up with what they say as opposed to actually seeking the Lord for understanding. and we with our minds of the things of this earth get ourselves confused because we don't understand spiritual things.
Ez 36:25-27
That’s what God does
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit
you’re assertions make no sense
Jn 3:22 they go to the river and BAPTIZE!!!!!
The things of God don't make sense to those who don't know Him.
BTW - I am for baptism, but the water Baptism that the Lord had John the Baptism do was symbolic and it was not the dunking people in water that makes a difference - it was the repenting of their ways and turning to the Lord and finding out what He has to say. The person depending on their religion instead of seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and listening to Him has not repented of their ways, and does not know about the Lord's ways, simply because they don't listen to Him. And since faith comes by hearing a word from Him, and since we are saved by that faith in Him which means we seeking Him and hear His voice, those who don't hear that small voice of the Lord are not saved.
If indeed a person is baptized (submerged, immersed, dunked) in the Holy Spirit you would being hearing His voice, because the Holy Spirit speaks. He does not speak on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks. So the Holy Spirit hears the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and brings them to your spirit. That is the Word of God we are preaching. The Lord is near you always as the great I AM, so His sheep do hear His voice. We pick it up in our hearts ( of course) and sometimes find His words in our mouth (because they come from the Spirit of the Lord)
And if you know the King, which is who our Lord Jesus Christ is, then are you not going to be given access (Baptized, submerged, immersed, dunked) in His Kingdom also. It is not the flesh that profits you anything because it is going away, but the spiritual things God has for you.
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Thus, if one person, via their flesh, submerging another person and their flesh in water profits them nothing!!! Yet a commitment to God and hearing what He has to say as opposed to continually leaning on your own understanding means life to you!! Still there are those saying "Let not God speak to us", just like the people of God that Moses took to the mountain of God back then. They are a rebellious people never willing to listen to the Lord!
Still that didn't make sense to those religious people, so Jesus said to those types in the past: Jn 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
The good news is that He is standing at the door and knocking with His voice and if anyone, including those religious types, do actually decided to let Him into their life and open up to them He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. But they have to be willing to be reproved by Him!
Rev 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Again - John baptized people in water so that they might repent and listen to the Lord, but being pushed under water doesn't actually mean they did repent and listen!!! What repenting and listening to the Lord might not even been explained well enough for them to understand - there is nothing new under the sun. There were those religious type back then and there are still those today. The lean on their understanding, of the rules of God, the traditions in place at the time, and twist all things around, not knowing who has been telling them to do that. That snakes first words were , "did God really say", and Satan is still driving people away from seeking the Lord and His voice today. So who says that baptism save you when we know that Jesus Christ is our saviour? That is what does not make sense!
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