Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

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TLHKAJ

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Mormons believe that we were all spirit babies before we came here that is why i posted that. Might fall more in line with your thinking.
My Mormon aunt told me this as a child ...that I was with God before I was born, and that I chose my parents and my name .....a bunch of HOGWASH!!! Who would want to be born into a multigenerational bloodline cult family and be subjected to SRA and MK Ultra??? (My mormon aunt and uncle were some of my handlers under MK Ultra.) I'm not buying that line of crap that makes me a "savior" who chose to come here and suffer so that I could help/save others. I'm not the Savior ....there is only ONE name given under Heaven whereby we must be saved and that is Jesus Christ!

I had to unload that.....
 
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Ziggy

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So God took dirt, spat on it, molded it into a human figure, and breathed life into it.

Where did the blood come from?

Life is in the blood...
Hugs
 

MA2444

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My Mormon aunt told me this as a child ...that I was with God before I was born, and that I chose my parents and my name .....a bunch of HOGWASH!!! Who would want to be born into a multigenerational bloodline cult family and be subjected to SRA and MK Ultra??? (My mormon aunt and uncle were some of my handlers under MK Ultra.) I'm not buying that line of crap that makes me a "savior" who chose to come here and suffer so that I could help/save others. I'm not the Savior ....there is only ONE name given under Heaven whereby we must be saved and that is Jesus Christ!

I had to unload that.....

SO what upset you so much? It was just a question.

It's a non salvific issue. No one said there is more than one savior. If you disagree with my line of questions and stuff, that's no big deal.
If the MK ultra people got to you in a bad way I could inderstand your anger....but I aint MK Ultra!

Wow annd I thought this would be a light hearted thread! Got you all stirred up. Sorry, I was just daydreaming about Heaven.
 
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MA2444

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So God took dirt, spat on it, molded it into a human figure, and breathed life into it.

Where did the blood come from?

Life is in the blood...
Hugs

That's a good question and I do have an answer for it.
Adam called Eve bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, right? Not flesh and bones like we say. Who changed the way we say it? I digress.

I didn't read this is any bible. As far as I know it came from some work some scientist is doing. I am not a scientist and dont work with him and so can prove none of it, but he did a wrte up on it and what they found out or suspect is that... (I can see this coming!!) (If were we alive in heaven before being born question is upsetting folks so much already then this one should confirm my insanity for you, Lol!

What is blood made out of and where did it come from? They think that Blood is congealed light. I kid you not.
That would explain it for me. we were flesh and bones and had no blood because we were not fallen yet and were filled up with spirit being Light. Then when we fell our light congealed and became blood.

So that was a good question and I think a plausible answer. WHo was it scoffed at being light beings? If you all like I can give you 30 or 40 scriptures which speak to that....let you light shine before the world, Arise and Shine! Oh there'sa bunch of them. God clothes himself with light. Mr skeptical apparently doesnt read it even as much as I do. It's in there so we can go there or not.
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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That's a good question and I do have an answer for it.
Adam called Eve bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, right? Not flesh and bones like we say. Who changed the way we say it? I digress.

I didn't read this is any bible. As far as I know it came from some work some scientist is doing. I am not a scientist and dont work with him and so can prove none of it, but he did a wrte up on it and what they found out or suspect is that... (I can see this coming!!) (If were we alive in heaven before being born question is upsetting folks so much already then this one should confirm my insanity for you, Lol!

What is blood made out of and where did it come from? They think that Blood is congealed light. I kid you not.
That would explain it for me. we were flesh and bones and had no blood because we were not fallen yet and were filled up with spirit being Light. Then when we fell our light congealed and became blood.

So that was a good question and I think a plausible answer. WHo was it scoffed at being light beings? If you all like I can give you 30 or 40 scriptures which speak to that....let you light shine before the world, Arise and Shine! Oh there'sa bunch of them. God clothes himself with light. Mr skeptical apparently doesnt read it even as much as I do. It's in there so we can go there or not.
No.... one cannot let science enter into the picture. Given their propensity they mostly are in it to disprove that God created life in their quest to find a way to make life as it is.

@Ziggy asked a valid question. Also, Much could be ashed where did flesh come from the dirt that God molded?

Or teeth, or dna for that matter.

God breathed "the breath of life into his nostrils"

It would not necessarily be a stretch to believe that within God's breathing life into Adam that this is where the blood entered into Adam.

I submit we are not supposed to know. WHY? For the very simple reason that if one "knows" and "understands" all... we no longer will walk by faith... it will be by sight and therefore ensues more then one problem.

How is it that no one seems to see something I do?

In Genesis one we are told

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

27So God created man in His own image;in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

They were created as male AND female... and were given orders .... (read the chapter)

These people were not Adam and Eve.

First they are told to multiply, and they are told to take care of all the earth (Even a regional area would be large)

Genesis 2 tells us about the Garden of Eden... complete with descriptions.

15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

What would happen to the rest of the earth?

18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.”

:contemplate:

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the livestock, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Animals... not woman???

22And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him

But in Gen 1 male/female were the creations (in the same verse) ... Gen 2 Adam was made and had there been a Labrador or Retriever or even a Sheppard among the animals there... I bet Eve would not have made it into the story.

I submit there are things we just cannot know nor are supposed to know.

@Ziggy asked "
Where did the blood come from?

Life is in the blood...

Gen 2 tells us

7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

shrugsmiley.gif
 

Lambano

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The early church father Origen (~185-253 AD) taught the pre-existence of the soul, citing Romans 9:11-14.

Pre-existence of the soul was declared a heresy at the Second Council of Constantinople in 533. Origen was declared "anathema" and his writings were burned.

Source: Pre-existence
Source: Origen
 
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Taken

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Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

No.

The Author Knew “everything” about a person Before the person was “created”, “made”, “lives”, “dies”.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

MA2444

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I submit we are not supposed to know. WHY? For the very simple reason that if one "knows" and "understands" all... we no longer will walk by faith... it will be by sight and therefore ensues more then one problem.

So we're not supposed to know because it would destroy our faith?

No way! The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Not most the truth, all of it. There's plenty of room to have faith even when one does understand more.

Story: I have carried a pistol on my for almost 4000 years now. Actually since before I was walking with the Lord. Then when I met the Lord again I started talking about Him. One of my shooting buddies says why dont you have faith enough to not need to carry a pistol?! I think it was his hobby to try and needle me lol. So I said, so you dont even know about pistols then. Carrying a pistol leaves a lot of room for faith. Pistols arent God or my weapon against evil, God is my Primary. A weapon (almost any pistol) in an unreliable and weak defense. Most are way underpowered and not only that most people cant hit the side of a barn with one. So there's lots and lots of room for faith.

Being armed is only a necessary thing for when there's no time to pray. Abiding in the spirit is the more imortant thing. But when bad things happen and someone attacks, and no time to pray because he's almost on top of you...All bad guys understand the language of gun fire, lol. David had a sling. Later someone upgraded it to a sling-shot. Then someone else upgraded that and now all we have to do is point and shoot. It happens fast when it does happen. I had a home invasion one time. I should say attempted home invasion because I stopped it with a single warning shot and was praising the Lord as they left! I had faith and a gun. Having guns is simply having a tool box. But faith is faith.

Same thing with our understanding. I wouldnt walk in less faith if I was able to understand that...I was in heaven before being born. Why would I?

Am I somehow being a bad christian by trying to unlock some of the mysteries of God that are in scripture? I don't think so.

Colossians 3:2
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.../KJV

That's all I'm doing. No harm in that.

Proverbs 25: 2
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.../KJV

I think God would rather like me daydreaming about these things, than watching movies or playing video games stuff like that. , lol.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.../KJV

If Jesus knew us before we were in the womb, then we were in His presence before. We know that Jesus does not force the Gospel or Salvation upon any man. He has given us free will and wont violate it. So doesnt it make sense that since Jesus never foreces Himself upon anyone, and He never changes (!) that is it possible that we agreed to come here? Or maybe even chose our parents that we would be born to?

He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and He knew us before we were in the womb. What did we talk about? Apparently, being born with Amnesia was part of the course.

What do you think?
This is a Mormon view, a misinterpretation!
"I knew you" means God had knowledge of us in His mind. He created us, each with a specific design and plan for our lives.
He knows the end from the beginning of all things - including your life.
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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So we're not supposed to know because it would destroy our faith?

No way! The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Not most the truth, all of it. There's plenty of room to have faith even when one does understand more.

Story: I have carried a pistol on my for almost 4000 years now. Actually since before I was walking with the Lord. Then when I met the Lord again I started talking about Him. One of my shooting buddies says why dont you have faith enough to not need to carry a pistol?! I think it was his hobby to try and needle me lol. So I said, so you dont even know about pistols then. Carrying a pistol leaves a lot of room for faith. Pistols arent God or my weapon against evil, God is my Primary. A weapon (almost any pistol) in an unreliable and weak defense. Most are way underpowered and not only that most people cant hit the side of a barn with one. So there's lots and lots of room for faith.

Being armed is only a necessary thing for when there's no time to pray. Abiding in the spirit is the more imortant thing. But when bad things happen and someone attacks, and no time to pray because he's almost on top of you...All bad guys understand the language of gun fire, lol. David had a sling. Later someone upgraded it to a sling-shot. Then someone else upgraded that and now all we have to do is point and shoot. It happens fast when it does happen. I had a home invasion one time. I should say attempted home invasion because I stopped it with a single warning shot and was praising the Lord as they left! I had faith and a gun. Having guns is simply having a tool box. But faith is faith.

Same thing with our understanding. I wouldnt walk in less faith if I was able to understand that...I was in heaven before being born. Why would I?

Am I somehow being a bad christian by trying to unlock some of the mysteries of God that are in scripture? I don't think so.

Colossians 3:2
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.../KJV

That's all I'm doing. No harm in that.

Proverbs 25: 2
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.../KJV

I think God would rather like me daydreaming about these things, than watching movies or playing video games stuff like that. , lol.
My reply had nothing to do about carrying a gun.

I would... I got my gun carry permit and then went to buy a gun. Back in 2019.

Ace sporting goods.

They refuse me because as yet I did not know how to use.

I have a friend who would have taken me to the shooting range and teach me.

I have a cop neighbor who was wanting to teach me.

I wanted to learn with MY gun.

Ace said no. Not until I had training.

Hence.. no gun.

As to my reply... You dog gone well know that if some "creation scientist" came up with a theory, and possible example of how mortal man made it into existence, without the mention of a Godly creation... that there would be some whop would not walk by faith on creation
because there are those still trying to disprove the crucifixion AND the resurrection
and someday when "they" come up with plausible explanations.. you know that that some will
stop walking by faith.. because they will simply believe that quasi -evidence.

We are supposed to walk by faith and not by sight
 

Wick Stick

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So God took dirt, spat on it, molded it into a human figure, and breathed life into it.

Where did the blood come from?

Life is in the blood...
Hugs
In that verse that says the LIFE is in the blood.... the word used there (nephesh) is elsewhere translated as SOUL.

So...

The Soul... is in the blood?

I mean... yeah kind of... the oxygen does get carried by the red blood cells... I suppose.
 
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MA2444

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Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

No.

The Author Knew “everything” about a person Before the person was “created”, “made”, “lives”, “dies”.

Glory to God,
Taken

WHy did He use the personal pronoun of "you" in that passage?
 

Ziggy

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No.... one cannot let science enter into the picture. Given their propensity they mostly are in it to disprove that God created life in their quest to find a way to make life as it is.

@Ziggy asked a valid question. Also, Much could be ashed where did flesh come from the dirt that God molded?

Or teeth, or dna for that matter.

God breathed "the breath of life into his nostrils"

It would not necessarily be a stretch to believe that within God's breathing life into Adam that this is where the blood entered into Adam.

I submit we are not supposed to know. WHY? For the very simple reason that if one "knows" and "understands" all... we no longer will walk by faith... it will be by sight and therefore ensues more then one problem.

How is it that no one seems to see something I do?

In Genesis one we are told

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

27So God created man in His own image;in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

They were created as male AND female... and were given orders .... (read the chapter)

These people were not Adam and Eve.

First they are told to multiply, and they are told to take care of all the earth (Even a regional area would be large)

Genesis 2 tells us about the Garden of Eden... complete with descriptions.

15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

What would happen to the rest of the earth?

18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.”

:contemplate:

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the livestock, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Animals... not woman???

22And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him

But in Gen 1 male/female were the creations (in the same verse) ... Gen 2 Adam was made and had there been a Labrador or Retriever or even a Sheppard among the animals there... I bet Eve would not have made it into the story.

I submit there are things we just cannot know nor are supposed to know.

@Ziggy asked "
Where did the blood come from?

Life is in the blood...

Gen 2 tells us

7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

View attachment 41607

Job 10:11
Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Eze 37:6
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 37:8
And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

The valley of bones..

Eze 37:1
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Eze 37:2
And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Eze 37:3
And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Eze 37:5
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

what is blood?

Blood is a body fluid in the circulatory system of humans and other vertebrates that delivers necessary substances such as nutrients and oxygen to the cells, and transports metabolic waste products away from those same cells. Blood is composed of blood cells suspended in blood plasma. Plasma, which constitutes 55% of blood fluid, is mostly water, and contains proteins, glucose, mineral ions, and hormones. The blood cells are mainly red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets. The most abundant cells are red blood cells. These contain hemoglobin, which facilitates oxygen transport by reversibly binding to it, increasing its solubility. Jawed vertebrates have an adaptive immune system, based largely on white blood cells. White blood cells help to resist infections and parasites. Platelets are important in the clotting of blood. Blood is circulated around the body through blood vessels by the pumping action of the heart. Wikipedia

water, oxygen and hemoglobin

Hemoglobin is a protein containing iron that facilitates the transport of oxygen in red blood cells. Almost all vertebrates contain hemoglobin, with the exception of the fish family Channichthyidae and the tissues of some invertebrate animals. Wikipedia

Iron... Iron sharpens iron...

Job 28:2
Iron is taken out of the earth, and brass is molten out of the stone.

So blood is made from iron, iron comes from the earth, I believe all organic things that make up humans are earthy.
The only force outside of these is the breath God breathed into them.
God didn't breathe into the animals so I don't believe this refers to simple oxygen.

Jhn 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So the question is: Were we alive in heaven before we were born?

Where did the breath of God come from?
God's breath is life, same as his Word is life.
When Jesus breathed on the disciples they recieved the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit represents life?
Where was the Holy spirit before it was breathed into the world?

Were we alive in heaven before we were born?
I believe Yes, but not in the physical manner of flesh and bone, but rather in the concept of God's mind.
Every soul ever born on earth came from the same spirit God breathed into Adam and Jesus breathed into his disciples.
Without this breath, we are only water, iron and oxygen, there is no life in and of itself.

Life is in the blood. Not our own, it comes from God. God's life is breathed into our blood. His Spirit is breathed into our body/soul.

The dry bones, even though all the flesh and sinews were brought together had no life in them until God breathed on them.
Same way he breathed in Adam's nostrils, same way Jesus breathed on the world in the day of pentacost.

For we walk by faith and not by sight, takes on a whole deeper meaning...

You believe that you have life because of the oxygen you breathe from the air around you.
Then you are no better than a beast.
But man was made in God's image and likeness, and God is Spirit. And this Spirit is in your blood that God gave to Adam from the foundation of the world.

And God heard the voice of Abel from the blood spilt on the ground.
A voice is a word. Did Abel have the word of God in him?

How is it Jesus could say, I never knew you unless you don't believe that God is in you?

And if God is in you, then the question is: Were you IN God before you were born?
I believe each of us were and the future generations to come, are in God and come from God.
But we weren't individuals, we are the spirit of God created into individuals.

And when we walk contrary to God and his spirit, we make him a liar.
Because his spirit is not man's spirit, man's spirit is of the earth... oxygen.
And if we don't come to the knowledge that we all share one spirit, then God will hold us accountable with that talent he gave us.
Parable of the talents...

Mat 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Let your light so shine.
:D
thinking...
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Ziggy

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In that verse that says the LIFE is in the blood.... the word used there (nephesh) is elsewhere translated as SOUL.

So...

The Soul... is in the blood?

I mean... yeah kind of... the oxygen does get carried by the red blood cells... I suppose.
Deu 12:23
Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

It's also translated as mind.

  1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
    1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
    2. living being
    3. living being (with life in the blood)
    4. the man himself, self, person or individual
    5. seat of the appetites
    6. seat of emotions and passions
    7. activity of mind
    8. activity of the will
    9. activity of the character

Oxygen doesn't have life in itself. If I have a canister of oxygen it doesn't think, it doesn't have passion, desire or emotion, or a will, or a character.
So this "life" must be something more than just oxygen. No?

What is the something.. more?
I believe it is God's spirit.

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TLHKAJ

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The early church father Origen (~185-253 AD) taught the pre-existence of the soul, citing Romans 9:11-14.

Pre-existence of the soul was declared a heresy at the Second Council of Constantinople in 533. Origen was declared "anathema" and his writings were burned.

Source: Pre-existence
Source: Origen
Very odd, considering those verses have absolutely nothing to do with any so-called pre-existence of man.

Romans 9:11-14

[11](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
[12]It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
[13]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[14]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
 
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TLHKAJ

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SO what upset you so much? It was just a question.

It's a non salvific issue. No one said there is more than one savior. If you disagree with my line of questions and stuff, that's no big deal.
If the MK ultra people got to you in a bad way I could inderstand your anger....but I aint MK Ultra!

Wow annd I thought this would be a light hearted thread! Got you all stirred up. Sorry, I was just daydreaming about Heaven.
A person has a right to be angry about injustices and lies, and twistings of scripture used to justify evil actions perpetrated against oneself and others. I'm not going to apologize for that. Anger is not the same as hatred.
 

Ziggy

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I suppose one can believe they come from God and return to God, or not.
I am of the mind that somewhere in God's great plan he already knew me. Even if I didn't know him.
And God sends us to many different circumstances. Some good and some bad.
Not by choices we have made, but through trials and tribulations to increase our faith in Him.
I believe he gives the harder challenges to those he believes can overcome them.
And uses their testimony to help others overcome.

God took Saul and changed him into Paul. Not because he deserved it. Well, depends on how you look at that.
Paul had to go through hell, so he could testify to others his faith in God.
He was once one way, and God turned him around. So that he would be a living testimony of God's grace and mercy towards all.

Some people blame God for giving them the talent he gave them. Or the cards dealt to them, or whatever metaphor you like to use.
But God knows whether you are able to bear it. And to those who are weak he gives more strength.
And to those who are haughty and high minded, he humbles.

If you are faithless, you walk in the dark not understanding God's plan for your life.
If you walk in faith, you walk in the light, understanding that God has a plan for your life.
And your life is his life that he gave to you, the day you were born into this world.

Most people walk in ignorance of this. Not because of any fault of their own, they haven't been taught.
Rom 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Ye are not your own.. ye are baught with a price. And that price is his life in his blood which was shed for you.
From the foundation of the world.

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Taken

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WHy did He use the personal pronoun of "you" in that passage?

In context, the speaking to an individual, “you, us, our, we, they, all”, etc. can apply to anyone included within the context.

The Lord God is not only the Creator and Maker but ALSO the “author” of “KNOWING” what each of His Creations SHALL believe, think, choose, do.

It is the manKIND of creation, that does not know his destiny until he steps into it.

Glory to God,
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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So the question is: Were we alive in heaven before we were born?


:D
thinking...
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Add another question into the mix. And I believe the answer is yes, but not in the sense that
there was a human form in heaven before birth or after death. (NOT YET, the later.)

Were we alive in heaven after the body died?

  • Ecclesiastes 12:7: “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”
This would indicate that your human spirit continues on after your body is rotting in the ground. So, depending on your Tripartite view of existence the human spirit is alive, but possibly awaiting an eventual rejoining.

  • Matthew 10:28: “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
This would indicate that your human soul continues on after your body is rotting in the ground. So, depending on your Tripartite view of existence the human soul is alive, but may well end up non-existent depending on you yourself and beliefs and lifestyles.

If the Holy Bible is accurate.. and when one dies their human spirit goes back to God who gave it... then it likely it was in existence before you were ever a thought to your parents.
I suppose that the creation of your human spirit may have been closer to you conception... but that would still mean your spirit was in heaven before your conception and birth.
(I hope that is clear and not confusing)

Your body was not.

You need a human spirit to be able to communicate with God, but that is another subject for another day