Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

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MA2444

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Job 38​

Easy-to-Read Version​

God Speaks to Job​

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job from a whirlwind and said,
2 “Who is this ignorant person
saying these foolish things?[a]
3 Prepare yourself for an attack!
Get ready to answer the questions I will ask you.
4 “Where were you when I made the earth?
If you are so smart, answer me.
5 And who decided how big the earth should be?
Who measured it with a measuring line?
6 What is the earth resting on?
Who put the first stone in its place
7 when the morning stars sang together
and the angels[b] shouted with joy?
8 “Who closed the flood gates
as the sea gushed from the womb?
9 Who covered it with clouds
and wrapped it in darkness?
10 I set the limits for the sea
and put it behind locked gates.
11 I said to the sea, ‘You can come this far, but no farther.
This is where your proud waves will stop.’
12 “Did you ever in your life command the morning to begin
or the day to dawn?
13 Did you ever tell the morning light to grab the earth
and shake those who are evil out of their hiding places?
14 The morning light makes the hills
and valleys easy to see.
When the daylight comes to the earth,
the shapes of these places stand out like the folds of a coat.
They take shape like soft clay
that is pressed with a stamp.
15 Evil people don’t like the daylight.
When it shines bright, it keeps them from doing the bad things they do.
16 “Have you ever gone to the deepest parts of the sea?
Have you ever walked on the ocean bottom?
17 Has anyone shown you the gates to the world of the dead?
Have you ever seen those gates that lead to the dark place of death?
18 Do you really understand how big the earth is?
Tell me, if you know all this.
19 “Where does light come from?
Where does darkness come from?
20 Can you take them back to where they belong?
Do you know how to get there?
21 Surely you know these things, since you are so old and wise.
You were alive when I made them, weren’t you?[c]
22 “Have you ever gone into the storerooms
where I keep the snow and the hail?
23 I save them there for times of trouble,
for the times of war and battle.
24 Have you ever gone to the place where the sun comes up,
where it makes the east wind blow all over the earth?[d]
25 Who dug ditches in the sky for the heavy rain?
Who made a path for the thunderstorm?
26 Who makes it rain even in desert places
where no one lives?
27 The rain gives that dry empty land all the water it needs,
and grass begins to grow.
28 Does the rain have a father?
Who produces the drops of dew?
29 Does ice have a mother?
Who gives birth to the frost?
30 That’s when the water freezes as hard as a rock.
Even the deep sea freezes over!
31 “Can you tie up the Pleiades[e]?
Can you unfasten the belt of Orion[f]?
32 Can you bring out the other constellations[g] at the right times?
Can you lead out the Bear[h] with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws that control the sky?
Can you put each star in its place above the earth?[i]
34 “Can you shout at the clouds
and command them to cover you with rain?
35 Can you give a command to the lightning?
Will it come to you and say, ‘Here we are; what do you want, sir?’
Will it go wherever you want it to go?
36 “Who makes people wise?
Who puts wisdom deep inside them?
37 Who is wise enough to count the clouds
and tip them over to pour out their rain?
38 The rain makes the dust become mud,
and the clumps of dirt stick together.
39 “Do you find food for the lions?
Do you feed their hungry babies?
40 No, they hide in their caves
or wait in the grass, ready to attack their prey.
41 Who feeds the ravens when their babies cry out to God
and wander around without food?

Footnotes​


The clear answer where where you when is God and you were not alive yet.

That makes sense. It doesnt answer the question but it sounds like it could.

Is this a Budda belief?
 

Scott Downey

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The destiny of ALL MANKIND is HELL, unless God shows His mercy and compassion to save someone. So yes we are all predestined to HELL in that sense, it is just that God loves some with His great love and saved them by His grace, Ephesians 2. He could have let the entire human race perish, but if you notice, God has reached out to men and saved some all through the history of this world.

Since God is God and all that an all-powerful Creator God must be, God knows all things from beginning to end. God knows exactly what He will do from before the beginning of time and all God's works were finished on the 7th day of creation, and that includes everyone's individual salvation or not. Hebrews 4

Salvation is a work of God for individuals, not nations.
That is why we read that those God foreknew He predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, and so then they are conformed in their own time on this earth. Romans 8

Acts 15
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’
18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from [f]sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
 

TLHKAJ

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How do I know how long I existed with God beofre choosing and being born into a Human body?
Awhile ago you said that you didn't say you chose to be born before your parents conceived you. Why are you going back that forth??
 
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TLHKAJ

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That makes sense. It doesnt answer the question but it sounds like it could.

Is this a Budda belief?
What in the world??? Are you seriously asking if Job 38 is a Buddhist belief??!?!!

I'm shaking my head .....the people on this forum calling themselves Christians and can't comprehend the Word. Wow.
 

TLHKAJ

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This is fruitless ....people will rather reject sound doctrine and believe what they want.
 
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MA2444

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Sorry I couldn't resist. So what you are saying is that this is a mormon teaching?

I am not presenting a mormon teaching. I was merely wondering how it could be true that Jesus knew us before we were in the womb. Sorry if it sounds moemon and upsets you. But it aint my fault it "sounds" mormon.

I'm not even asking you (or anyone) to believe it. If I can't remember, then it's the same as I dont know for sure. I asked a question for other views and a coupe acts sorta like they want to argue about it. Why are you and the girl so hung up about mormons? I said I'm not mormon.

Ya gotta admit though. This is a much better thread than arguing about all the Trans & gay things that they're trying to force on Christians now. Them threads get old!
 
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MA2444

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What in the world??? Are you seriously asking if Job 38 is a Buddhist belief??!?!!

I'm shaking my head .....the people on this forum calling themselves Christians and can't comprehend the Word. Wow.

Oh, come on. I'm sorry if my humor escapes you. I know it's not Buddaist. That was a zinger on the girl for accusing me of being a mormon.

Lighten up Brother. I know that sounded ridiculous to you! (What the girl said about me sounded the same...). I'm not mormon.
 
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MA2444

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Awhile ago you said that you didn't say you chose to be born before your parents conceived you. Why are you going back that forth??

I said I dont know that I chose. But I am pert darn sure that I at least agreed to it.

I did not say, I did not choose. I said many people have said that.

I'm not going back and forth. Just still trying to figure out how all that could have happened. Maybe I chose my parents and life situation and maybe Jesus said, tis is what I would like you to do? So I agreed?
 
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Ziggy

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I have no memory of anything before the age of 3. There are photographs my mom took of me sitting in a carriage drinking my baba, but I don't recall it even though it is there in black and white.
My last husband told me he knew where he was going to be born and had memories of the house he would live in even before he was born.
Who am I to say he did or didn't? I'm not privy to his memories.
But I know he had a real good memory.
We travelled cross country, me, 10 years, he had been doing it since he was 18, so almost 40 years to all these different addresses and locations. We would get a load and he would say, I think I remember that place, I was there about 20 years ago. He didn't even need a map.
I have to go to a place 4-5 times before I remember how to get there without a GPS.

My dad's 89 year old memory is better than mine.

I think we don't know a lot of things. When does memory begin?
Then there is your DNA which contains memory of your family tree. Medical, genetics, heritage.. history in your blood.

What's that organisation you send a swab of saliva to and they can trace your heritage... Ancestry?
My daughter did that and traced her heritage back to northern european. We are the white of the white LOL
But I find it interesting that no one ever claimed they come from the orangutang or the chimpanzee.
I don't believe in Darwinism.

But I do believe that because science can not disprove the existence of God, they had to create their own God which they now call artificial intelligence.
I believe if science had an open mind then over time they would have to admit that God exists.
And yes man did come from the earth that God breathed into and it bacame a living soul. What science can't tell you is where the breath came from because their mind is closed. They can't find the spirit in man.

If they only look inside themselves they might get a clue lol. or read the bible even.

Somethings are just too deep even for this ole pick and shovel I carry with me all the time.
God knows and that's all I really need to know.

Hugs
 
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MA2444

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I said, our neshamah (life, breath) was breathed into our bodies by God. And yes, He created mankind ....He formed us in the womb. That's a far far cry from saying we (our consciousness) was in with God before conception. In Genesis 2:7, it says that after God formed man from the dust of the earth (a body), He then breathed His neshamah (breath, life) into that body of dust and at that instant, man (the body) became a living soul. The living soul is the product of God's neshamah uniting with the body. That's what scripture says. To assume more is to stray from sound doctrine.

Ok, so, our spirit did come from God and it animated the clay body and the resulting mixture brought forth a soul. ...and man became a living soul...I'll buy that. That's what I have been saying.

What was I one half hour before being born here?

Scripture says He knew us before we entered the womb so He must be talking about our spirit!
In another place in scripture it says...My sheep know my voice...so that implies that we have heard His voice before!

Testimony time!
I have heard the audible voice of the Lord one time when He spoke to me. I was at my computer doing emails. A power seemed to enter the room from my right and then enveloped the whole room. It was like the atmosphere was electrified or something. Power. The strongest thing I have ever felt before (or since). I knew it was the Lord even before He spoke.

Let's just say that, when Jesus walks into the room, there is no mistake who you are standing in front of. He actually spoke rather quickly and said, I want you to pray for Brother so and so he needs help...

I remember thinking, I know that voice! I recognized it and that made me go (Tilt) like a pinball machine. I've never heard His voice before, right? I felt amazed that I did recognize it. I knew it instantly. So I didnt test it or anything. I didnt have to!

I was extremely stupid. When God told told me to pray for the man, I asked God, WHy? What happened? Is he ok?...and that was not the right answer! The Lord said to me (audibly still), pray for him now, he needs help now....(it was at that moment that I knew I messed up!). The Lord took a stern tone of voice towards me when He repeated His instructions to me. That same tone that we use on our kids when we want immediate compliance! It struck teror into me. Just the tone. He didnt rebuke me, just used an enouraging tone. And I said, Yes Lord. And I went into immediate prayer for the man who needed help.

I finished my prayer and said my Amens, and before I could even begin asking dumb questions again, the presence faded in power and left. And left me sitting there wondering what just happened? So I fired off a direct message to the man who I prayed for and asked him what happened to him? I told him what hapened to me.

I thought about it. God does not need me to help Him help someone. So what happened was a privlege for me that I was alowed to help in any way.
Then I thought about Zachariah who got struck dumb for questioning the Angel, remember?! and so my underlying lesson was, do not question the Lord.
If he tells you to do something, the only correct answer is, Yes Lord!
I was praising God and thanking Him for not striking me dumb for being insubordinate with questions. Time was of the essence, the man was having a medical emergency. Low bood sugar? I dunno. He needed orange juice fromt the vending machine and left class to go get it and collapsed in the hallway. He didnt make it. He needed help. Everyone else was in class so the halls were empty.

It was a small private school my friend was attending. Small enough that everyone knows everyone there. He filled me in the details of what happened later. He said a starnger to the school wearing a blue business suit walked up to him and said what do you need, I'm here to help...And the guy (Angel?) got him the oj and then my friend began recovering quickly. And suddenly the starnger was gone and no one else at all seen this guy.
 

MA2444

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But I find it interesting that no one ever claimed they come from the orangutang or the chimpanzee.
I don't believe in Darwinism.

There was one time that I said to a Pronoun Warrior thatI woke up today feeling like a crocodile. In fact, I must have been a crocodile all my life but only realized it in it's proper season of development that it matured so came to realization for me. PW said I was nuts, Lol!

A Riddle!

How man Legs does a cow have?
Four.
Ok, so now supose that we call the tail a leg. How many legs does the cow have now?
Five?
Wrong! Calling a cows tail a Leg, doesn't make it a leg. (Abraham Lincoln- to the gender confused people)
 

Mr E

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I knew one of the sects did. Awful unscriptural doctrines they have.

It’s not crazy, and it’s not just one of the sects. JW’s believe the same thing, revealing the similarities and roots of both sects, having a relatively common beginning.

Mormons think that Michael became Adam.
 
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Ziggy

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That's a far far cry from saying we (our consciousness) was in with God before conception.
I don't believe we have a conscience until after we are born. But life itself, that spark that begins the ball rolling in the womb, that is what comes from God.
The beginning of creation. God said, Let there be light.. that "light" is the very essence of life which ....
Jhn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Conscience is about knowing. It's a mind thing. And I don't believe we have a mind until we have a brain to contain the mind.
I'm thinking about the very ignition of conception. The very first step is the fertilization process.

One of these days I'm going to study to become a doctor of everything lol.

I believe life begins at the moment of conception. Otherwise the stages of the embryo, the dividing of the cells, the creation of the very fetus couldn't happen. It needs gas to make the car run, or in today's world, electricity. I still have a gas powered car and always will unless they stop producing gas... anyways..

That electricity, the gas, the light, is added to the form being created.
Cells have life. But where does the life in the cell come from?

How life originated and how the first cell came into being are matters of speculation, since these events cannot be reproduced in the laboratory.

It's too technical for me, lol and it's from the NIH so, ... nevermind.
I'll stick with the declaration that they cannot reproduce the life in a cell in a laboratory.
Which means it came from somewhere but they don't know where and can't replicate it.

The God particle... AKA Higgs Boson..physics is outside my pay grade and my 6th grade education.
It’s 10 years to the day since evidence of the Higgs boson – the elusive particle associated with an invisible mass-giving field – was announced.

They found dark matter, but they should be looking for light matter, lol
Leave it to CERN to try and crack the code.
Anyone who uses the symbol of Chaos as their image, leaves me wondering if you don't get what you ask for.

1708219936990.png


So getting back to conscience..
conscience, a personal sense of the moral content of one's own conduct, intentions, or character with regard to a feeling of obligation to do right or be good.

So it comes back to the individual perception of ones self. And I don't believe we have an identity of self knowledge before we are born.
I believe God knows who we will be, but we ourselves at the time of conception are simply his life force forming within the mass we call flesh. And as the mind or brain develops we aquire a self awareness that is seperate and individual from that initial spark of life.

It's complicated LOL

Hugs
 
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TLHKAJ

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I don't believe we have a conscience until after we are born. But life itself, that spark that begins the ball rolling in the womb, that is what comes from God.
I am 100% sure we do have consciousness in the womb. I have heard reports of pre-born babies trying to escape from the abortionists instruments. Also, I have pre-birth memories. I had my mind split by trauma while I was still in the womb. Scientists/mind control doctors know this.

God took me there in 2008 (to my pre-birth memories) to help me understand the roots of my desire not to live. He drew forward my pre-birth splits (in my personality) while I was co-conscious and showed me what happened. I remembered being in the womb during the birthing process ....and a satanic ritual that took place to dedicate me ....and I, as a pre-born infant, pulled back. I sensed the literal presence and hands of satan and I didn't want to go near him. I didn't understand who he was, but I knew he was EVIL.

I understood that this was the root satan used to build upon, the desire not to live. From age 5, I began trying to die by shutting myself in my little brother's toy box with a pillow over my face hoping I wouldn't wake up. I wanted to die. I'd seen and suffered so much.

God showed me that I was not the property of child of satan. He showed me how that He formed me in my mother's womb... and although they made every effort to make me believe I belonged to satan, God knew me already and He kept me. I began to hear His (Jesus') voice calling me by name, to follow Him, and teaching my heart about Himself at age 10. I finally surrendered to Him at age 13. And as you know, my abuse didn't end ...but God has been faithful, and has kept me to this day.
 

JohnDB

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We can only understand what we have experience with. We cannot go beyond that.
Hot, cold, wet, dry, an hour, years, decades.....whatever....

We literally have no experience or understanding of what eternity really is about. We can't fathom without beginning or without end.
We can only understand segmented time. Because that's all we have experience with.

However, we shall be transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
Just because you don't understand and can't understand doesn't mean that God does not and has tried his best to explain it to us.

Sure, I can say "suck a piano up your nose through a straw" but in no way can I begin to do such a thing or even know how to begin such a task.

Don't bring Heaven to common or try to elevate yourself to understanding. Leave God's work to God.
 

Ziggy

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I am 100% sure we do have consciousness in the womb. I have heard reports of pre-born babies trying to escape from the abortionists instruments. Also, I have pre-birth memories. I had my mind split by trauma while I was still in the womb. Scientists/mind control doctors know this.
See this is why Forums are good. We learn new things everyday and everyone has so many different experiences to share.
Thank you for sharing yours TLHKAJ, I know they are difficult, but much appreciated.

So, I mentioned my husband knew before he was born the exact location of the house he was going to born in.
So I'm not opposed to a consciousness in the womb. I myself have a hard time recollecting anything before the age of three.
And it was a traumatic experience I first remember of my dad coming home drunk and my mom hitting him over the head with a cast iron frying pan. Him shoving a sock in my brothers mouth to try and keep him from crying. And mom rushing to get us dressed and running down the dark back stairs, through the yard, climbing a fence to get to my Aunt's house.

I don't remember anything before that and very little after that until around 5 or so.
My dad was an alcoholic and not a good one at that. But he quit drinking after that episode. Maybe why I don't have much recollection until later.

I'm thinking pre-born trying to escape abortion, maybe in some cases is instinct. They know pain and try to get away from it.
I can't even think about it. It disturbs me, badly.

I remember my mom telling me that I was an "accident" . That they hadn't planned on any more children after my sister died of crib death around 6 months old.
But I guess God had other plans because here I am.
Life hasn't always been an easy ride for me. But less traumatic than others, and maybe more than others.
Every turn we make in life always somehow seems to lead us where we are needed the most at the right time.
I don't know how I ended up here in Maine from owning my own property in Florida, having travelled across the country, to having a child at the age of 14. Twice married, twice divorced. To end up in a place where I am needed 24/7.
Where I'm going from here is anybody's guess. But I know God knows, and I just follow where he leads.
Doesn't mean I understand it at the time. But looking back, sometimes you get that.. aha.. moment, when you can see the plan.

I probably wouldn't be the person I am today if the road set before me was even the slightest changed to another course.
I am content with my life in whatever circumstance I find myself. May not be easy, but there is a reason.
And I leave that up to God. He knows best.

Much Love
Hugs
 

TLHKAJ

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In another place in scripture it says...My sheep know my voice...so that implies that we have heard His voice before!
His sheep are those who believe on Him and follow Him. We aren't sheep until we believe on Him. At that point, our ears become attuned to His voice and we recognize His voice over false shepherds. That doesn't imply that we heard His voice before conception.
 
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TLHKAJ

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I said I dont know that I chose. But I am pert darn sure that I at least agreed to it.

I did not say, I did not choose. I said many people have said that.

I'm not going back and forth. Just still trying to figure out how all that could have happened. Maybe I chose my parents and life situation and maybe Jesus said, tis is what I would like you to do? So I agreed?
It isn't scriptural... at all. Like I said before, if we were here before conception ....where was our beginning? Or do you think we have no beginning? If that's the case, we have to be God. lol

It just takes you in a dangerous place, away from the truth laid out in scripture.

What is the benefit of thinking we chose our own lot in life? Selfish glory for doing some good works? It can't be that only some got to choose. So then, the obvious conclusion would be that the majority of people born chose to come and live a life apart from God, pursuing self interests and evil, and then to die without Him and spend eternity in damnation. It makes absolutely no sense at all (besides being unscriptural).
 
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Ziggy

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His sheep are those who believe on Him and follow Him. We aren't sheep until we believe on Him. At that point, our ears become attuned to His voice and we recognize His voice over false shepherds. That doesn't imply that we heard His voice before conception.
Maybe more like an intuition.

I was thinking about Daniel.


Dan 1:3
And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;
Dan 1:4
Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.
Dan 1:17
As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.

When do you think God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom?

Exo 35:30
And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
Exo 35:31
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
Exo 35:32
And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
Exo 35:33
And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
Exo 35:34
And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
Exo 35:35
Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.

So Bezaleel and Aholiab, neither of these were born again or knew Jesus. But God provided to them that which God needed to do the work he gave them to do.
My question would be.. When did they recieve the Spirit of God within them?
Who laid hands on them or baptised them?
Were they born with the Spirit of God in them or was it given at some other time?

God works in mysterious ways.
:D
Hugs
 
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