What are some of the reasons people don’t like going to church buildings or institutionalized churches?

[bdavidc]

I agree about gathering - Jesus said "where 2 or more are gathered in MY Name I am there" good enough for me!
but what about elders, bishops in the scriptures?

According to Scripture, elders and bishops are not tied to church buildings or formal institutions, but to the local body of believers, wherever they meet. In the New Testament, the words "elder" (Greek: presbuteros) and "bishop" or "overseer" (Greek: episkopos) are used interchangeably to describe mature men who are spiritually qualified to lead, teach, and shepherd God’s people (Titus 1:5–9, 1 Timothy 3:1–7, Acts 20:17, 28). These leaders are appointed within the church, which the Bible defines as the assembly of believers, not a structure or denomination (1 Corinthians 12:27, Romans 16:5). If you are regularly gathering with other believers in the name of Jesus, studying the Word, praying, and walking in obedience, that is a biblical church. Within that setting, if God raises up men who meet the qualifications laid out in Titus and 1 Timothy, they can serve as elders or overseers, even if your group meets in a home. The key is not where you meet, but whether the group is submitted to God’s Word, led by the Spirit, and functioning in the way Scripture commands. Leadership is about spiritual oversight, not titles or buildings. 1 Peter 5:2–3 says, “Feed the flock of God which is among you… not by constraint, but willingly… being examples to the flock.” So, elders and bishops fit wherever the true flock of God is gathered, even in a living room, as long as the Word of God is being obeyed.

I’ve seen churches appoint elders and deacons who don’t meet the biblical qualifications, simply because they couldn’t find anyone else. In my opinion, that only makes the situation worse. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and that’s exactly why I started this thread, to hear from people who actually know what the Bible think. Grin.

Just to be clear, I’m not against going to a church building. What I have a problem with is when the leadership in a lot of churches teaches false doctrine, constantly talks about money to expand their buildings, or pressures people to give, give, and give, not for the sake of the gospel and help people, but to make themselves more comfortable. When people start acting like going to a certain church or denomination somehow makes you more saved, that’s dangerous and unbiblical. Honestly, that kind of mindset almost kept me from coming to know the Lord at all. But praise God, He opened my eyes and showed me that true salvation is not about buildings, money, or religious systems, it’s about knowing Him through His Word, prayer and truth.

 

[Stumpmaster]

true salvation is not about buildings,

Yeth it ith:
Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, (20) and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, (21) in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord; (22) in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit.

 

[bdavidc]

I wouldn't be too quick to classify others this way. Baby Christians need to be around mature Christian for healthy growth. Not to say God can't or won't work in someone without the benefit of others around them. But it's easy to see in the Bible that the way He designed has a strong interpersonal component. Look at all the "one another-ing" passages in the New Testament. Or like Ephesians 4, or the places where it talks of us being members of the same body in need of each other.

I believe in actively seeking out Christian fellowship, and even if someone says they are a Christian, but doesn't yet look like a Christian. I'm supposed to help show the Way (mentor, restore), not say, You don't look clean enough for me!

Much love!

I want to clarify that I never said, nor implied, “You don't look clean enough for me.” That kind of judgmental attitude is exactly what I experienced as a teenager in a church where the so-called leadership looked down on me. It was hurtful and unbiblical, and it nearly turned me away from the faith altogether. But by God's grace, He showed me that salvation is not about outward appearances or religious systems, but about a new life in Christ.

My concern is not with new believers who are learning and growing, but with those who claim to be Christians yet consistently reject the authority of Scripture and show no fruit of salvation. As Jesus said in Matthew 7:20, “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” When someone has professed Christ for years but refuses correction, lives contrary to the Word, and spreads false teaching, that is not a babe in Christ, that is a counterfeit. And putting genuine new believers under the influence of such people is spiritually dangerous.

False teachers and fake Christians are a major problem in many churches today, where worldliness is promoted and holiness is treated like legalism. Paul warned in 2 Timothy 3:5 about those who “have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof,” and told believers to turn away from them. So yes, we should seek Christian fellowship, but fellowship must be with those who walk in truth (1 John 1:7), not just those who use Christian words while denying the truth by how they live. Real mentoring must come from those who love the Lord, submit to His Word, and walk in obedience to it, otherwise, it will only lead people away from Christ, not toward Him.

 

[Angelina]

I’ve been thinking lately about why a lot of people don’t like going to church buildings or being part of big, organized churches. The Bible talks about staying connected with other believers (Hebrews 10:24-25), but it also warns about false teachers and churches being more about money and show than real worship (2 Peter 2:1-3, Matthew 21:12-13). Do you think things like constant fundraising, big building projects, and entertainment-focused services are turning people away? What other reasons do you think people have? Curious to hear what everyone thinks — and if any Scripture comes to mind too!

Good question, @bdavidc. I haven't been a member of a particular church for many years, and I guess it's because of the internal politics that can get in the way of doing things in Christ. I was last involved in a very vibrant small Pentecostal church, but after the seventh pastor had left in six years, I decided I needed to find another avenue. I am now happily involved in an international ministry that gathers together every month, where I am on the worship team. The Bible tells us to fellowship together, Hebrews 3:12-13, which I am always keen to do. I think the key element is to try and find your people. I found them in a ministry that also supports other ministries, and I am very happy to be a part of that gathering. Blessings.

 

[bdavidc]

It doesn't...but it does say this:
Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."

You're right, Matthew 18:20 clearly states, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” That affirms that Christ’s presence is not limited to a building, denomination, or institution. What matters is gathering in His name, meaning under His authority and in agreement with His Word. The Bible nowhere commands believers to attend a specific building or join a certain denomination. Instead, it emphasizes the importance of fellowship centered on truth. Hebrews 10:25 warns us not to forsake assembling together, but it does not prescribe a physical church structure or man-made system. What Scripture requires is that believers gather for prayer, teaching, mutual encouragement, and obedience to God’s Word (Acts 2:42). If that happens in a house, a small group, or even online when no other option is available, and the people involved are truly walking in the truth, Christ is there. God is not looking for religion, He is looking for worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:24), and that is never confined to a location or a denomination.

 

[bdavidc]

Yeth it ith:
Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, (20) and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, (21) in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord; (22) in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit.

The passage you quoted, Ephesians 2:19–22, is indeed powerful, but it is being misunderstood if it is being used to argue that salvation is about a physical building. The context clearly shows that Paul is speaking spiritually, not literally. He is not referring to a church building made of bricks and mortar, but to the spiritual household of God made up of born-again believers. Verse 22 says plainly, “in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.” That means believers themselves, not structures, are the temple where God dwells (see also 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 1 Peter 2:5).

When Paul says we are “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,” he is referring to the doctrine they taught, not to a physical building. Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone confirms that this is a spiritual structure, established in truth and faith. No part of Ephesians 2 teaches that salvation is connected to a physical church building. In fact, Acts 7:48 clearly says, “Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands,” and again in Acts 17:24, “God that made the world and all things therein... dwelleth not in temples made with hands.”

True salvation is being made alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:1, 5), sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13), and being part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27). Buildings are just tools. Salvation is about the new birth, not a structure.

 

[marks]

My concern is not with new believers who are learning and growing, but with those who claim to be Christians yet consistently reject the authority of Scripture and show no fruit of salvation.

I guess I'm spoiled! We have a lot of really good churches around here.

I live in Post-Jesus-Movement Orange County, CA. There is a strong and real body of Christians around here.

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

You're right, Matthew 18:20 clearly states, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” That affirms that Christ’s presence is not limited to a building, denomination, or institution. What matters is gathering in His name, meaning under His authority and in agreement with His Word.

Exactly

The Bible nowhere commands believers to attend a specific building or join a certain denomination. Instead, it emphasizes the importance of fellowship centered on truth. Hebrews 10:25 warns us not to forsake assembling together, but it does not prescribe a physical church structure or man-made system. What Scripture requires is that believers gather for prayer, teaching, mutual encouragement, and obedience to God’s Word (Acts 2:42). If that happens in a house, a small group, or even online when no other option is available, and the people involved are truly walking in the truth, Christ is there. God is not looking for religion, He is looking for worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:24), and that is never confined to a location or a denomination.

<golf clap>

 

[dad]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is accepted widely. If you go boo here you are likely to get shot.

When the government goes boo the churches jumped into line in case you actually missed the point

I guess we are a lot braver here. I haven't seen a rainbow flag in a while, because the first I said is God gave us a rainbow as a sign.

Pretending you don't know the popular meaning and reason some churches do that eh? Boring

I believe its losing favor now.

The same churches are here that did it.

Most charities are business licensed and not tax exempt and are grass roots.

So? Did I ask about 'charities'?

Nobody pays attention to the gov't when handing out food or food kitchens.

Someone suggested they should?

Don't look at TV, that is the Satan news networks. Christianity is accepted widely in the bible belt where I live.

So are wars.

Charity is a way of life. There are literally a hundred churches within 25 miles of me.

Great so maybe address the issues raised and that was not 'charities'. The issue was compromising churches working hand in glove with governments with Satanic agendas and policies.

 

[Rockerduck]

When the government goes boo the churches jumped into line in case you actually missed the point

Pretending you don't know the popular meaning and reason some churches do that eh? Boring

The same churches are here that did it.

So? Did I ask about 'charities'?

Someone suggested they should?

So are wars.

Great so maybe address the issues raised and that was not 'charities'. The issue was compromising churches working hand in glove with governments with Satanic agendas and policies.

why do you seem like you have a chip on your shoulder? May the peace of God be with you.

 

[dad]

By the way, you seem the think the gov't controls people here. I don't understand that.

Yet it is a reality that most churches closed and etc as told. Not hard to understand

If you look back during covid, In Geogia, where I live, we didn't shut down anything, and most refused masks.

OK, too bad the world is bigger than Georgia. Also, looking up the tax exemption it appears to be federal, no?

501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code
"A 501(c)(3) organization is a United States corporation, trust, unincorporated association or other type of organization exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of Title 26 of the United States Code."

501(c)(3) organization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The feds did shut down plenty. The Feds did promote Satanic agendas. So I don't think you can hide under the Georgia umbrella

e, but business was usual, and churches were open. Many businesses from the North moved South to stay in business. Also, Churches and charities do not take money from the gov't.
Unless they had an exemption the money would go to government in part. (taxes)

You must have some satanic practices in Canada, but not here. Freedom of religion is ingrained in our constitution, and it shall not be infringed upon, that means gov't cannot tell churches what to do.

"A Tampa, Fla., megachurch pastor who continued to hold packed church services despite a “Safer At Home” order was arrested Monday.


Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was arrested on misdemeanor charges of unlawful assembly and violation of public health rules after defying social distancing orders at The River at Tampa Bay church, according to The Daily Beast."

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/490241-pastor-arrested-for-holding-church-services/

"

Florida, Louisiana pastors arrested for violating health emergency guidelines"​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/some-us-churches-flout-covid-19-restrictions-1.5515436

"Calvary Chapel San Jose and its pastor had been ordered by a judge to stop holding indoor gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic"

California pastor, church found in contempt, fined over Covid rules

Calvary Chapel San Jose and its pastor had been ordered by a judge to stop holding indoor gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic.

www.nbcnews.com

"A California church that defied safety regulations during the COVID-19 pandemic by holding large, unmasked religious services must pay $1.2 million in fines, a judge has ruled."

California church must pay $1.2M for breaking COVID rules

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — A California church that defied safety regulations during the COVID-19 pandemic by holding large, unmasked religious services must pay $1.2 million in fines, a judge has ruled.

apnews.com

Etc

So it was not just Canada.

"An outspoken street preacher is appealing to the Oklahoma Supreme Court after he was slapped with a five-year restraining order that his attorneys say threatens him with jail time if he violates the order by speaking out in opposition against a local LGBTQ advocacy group."

Street preacher threatened with jail time after citing Bible verses against local Oklahoma LGBTQ organization

Pastor Rich Penkoski is appealing to the Oklahoma Supreme Court after he was issued a five-year restraining order that he says prohibits him from publicly opposing a local LGBTQ group.

www.foxnews.com

"
A 71-year-old pastor of a north London church was arrested on April 23 under the United Kingdom's Public Order Act for allegedly making "homophobic comments" during a public sermon, video shows.

At least one United Kingdom-based group, Christian Concern, which defends people of faith, described the incident as a "brutal arrest" that sets a bad precedent for religious freedom of speech throughout the country"

Pastor Arrested After Sermon on Marriage, Police Cite 'Homophobic Comments'

A 71-year-old pastor of a north London church was arrested on April 23 under the city's Public Order Act for allegedly making "homophobic comments" during a public sermon, video shows.

www.newsweek.com

Not just in the US either.

So the issue is when a government tells you what to preach or not, or that you cannot meet, and etc they are stepping on God's toes. As pure as you might think Georgia may be

 

[dad]

why do you seem like you have a chip on your shoulder? May the peace of God be with you.

Why did you have a problem being truthful and addressing the issues honesty?

 

[Rockerduck]

Why did you have a problem being truthful and addressing the issues honesty?

Because you seek out the worst, and not the many Good. I didn't care if I got a misdemeanor. I held church during that time and had no complaints. I would have gone to court and it would have been thrown out, because the constitution was on my side.. I don't preach politics. I preached salvation through the saving Grace of Jesus Christ. I did preach against Covid though, I knew a virus had no cure, and masks had no effect on viruses. I apologize if I misunderstood you. But honestly, I've known more common-sense people than no sense people. Liberal politics wants to force people to change is the problem. But they will lose in court. Georgia is a conservative state.

 

[rockytopva]

When I was in the Pentecostal Holiness church I studied the Methodist revival while enjoying ours. Like the Methodist before us, we leave off the things necessary for revival and fall into ordinary things. So if I were to input the reason for the avoidance of organized churches with one word it would be...

Generation

 

[rockytopva]

And... The Apostle Paul type discipleship needed for the generation...

 

[dad]

Because you seek out the worst,

No. I seek out the best

I didn't care if I got a misdemeanor.

How about if you got jail?

I held church during that time and had no complaints.

OK, so some churches did continue. Great. Many did not. Many were arrested and fined for trying to follow the bible. Would it not be better if groups of believers got themselves free of entanglements so they could follow the bible?

I would have gone to court and it would have been thrown out, because the constitution was on my side..

You seem to be suggesting the the USA is fine and the rest of the world doesn't matter? I already showed examples of churches that had problems with the restrictions the government put in place there, while others simply closed or limped along not doing some things. There is also the matter that your government supports terrorists, terrorism and unjust wars. For example the genocide and terrorism inflicted on Gaza. Then there are the millions of babies killed and the evil forced on schools.

I don't preach politics.

preaching that God created us male and female and that He sends children etc is not politics. Teaching that genocide is wrong and evil is not politics. Teaching that we are to disobey any government telling us not to preach the gospel is not politics. Some churches seem to think they need to just keep collecting the cash and enjoying tax free status and keeping their mouths shut to do so.

I preached salvation through the saving Grace of Jesus Christ. I did preach against Covid though, I knew a virus had no cure, and masks had no effect on viruses. I apologize if I misunderstood you. But honestly, I've known more common-sense people than no sense people. Liberal politics wants to force people to change is the problem. But they will lose in court. Georgia is a conservative state.

It is also a state inside the United States of America.
"Kenia Colindres told Channel 2 that her husband, Wilson Rogelio Velasquez Cruz, was arrested during service at Iglesia Fuente de Vida in Tucker."

ICE strikes during church service to arrest migrant

Kenia Colindres told Channel 2 that her husband, Wilson Rogelio Velasquez Cruz, was arrested during service at Iglesia Fuente de Vida in Tucker.

www.newsweek.com

So churches are places governments monitor and know about and feel free to invade. The covid restrictions mentioned in the thread were just examples of governments trying to overrule God and impose their rules on churches. That is a downside to being on their payroll basically and out in plain view.

 

[Grailhunter]

Lots of scriptures that say go and give to the church

What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Bible verses about Giving To The Church

www.openbible.info

 

[dad]

Lots of scriptures that say go and give to the church

What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Bible verses about Giving To The Church

www.openbible.info

Here is a good link that explains why churches should give up the tax status

No More Charitable Status: A Christian Case Against the Church's Tax-Exempt Status

A challenge facing Canadian Christian churches, ministries and missions groups

nomorecharitablestatus.com

They sum it up this way

"

• We should not be using money taken from taxpayers who don’t want to help us
• We should not be giving up control or ownership of the Lord’s money and people to unbelievers
• Charitable law creates an unnecessary burden, strain, and limitation on ministry groups
• We should not pledge to work for the world’s idea of “public benefit”
• We should not be depending on something that could easily be removed from underneath us"

 

[Triumph1300]

Churches should not be tax exempt.
These tax exemptions can come with government strings attached.
The church does not depend on government tax exemption, God will take care of the church.

• We should not be using money taken from taxpayers who don’t want to help us
• We should not be giving up control or ownership of the Lord’s money and people to unbelievers
• Charitable law creates an unnecessary burden, strain, and limitation on ministry groups
• We should not pledge to work for the world’s idea of “public benefit”
• We should not be depending on something that could easily be removed from underneath us"

Recently a church was asking the government for a subsidy to employ a summer student as youth pastor.
There seem to be subsidies in Canada for summer student employment in stores, churches, recreation centres, etc.

Of course this comes with strings attached.
For instance, what happens if the student is gay, and the church does not want to hire that person?
The government would lay down the rules. And trouble would follow.

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is a good link that explains why churches should give up the tax status

No More Charitable Status: A Christian Case Against the Church's Tax-Exempt Status

A challenge facing Canadian Christian churches, ministries and missions groups

nomorecharitablestatus.com

They sum it up this way

"

• We should not be using money taken from taxpayers who don’t want to help us
• We should not be giving up control or ownership of the Lord’s money and people to unbelievers
• Charitable law creates an unnecessary burden, strain, and limitation on ministry groups
• We should not pledge to work for the world’s idea of “public benefit”
• We should not be depending on something that could easily be removed from underneath us"

Here is a good link that explains why churches should give up the tax status

No More Charitable Status: A Christian Case Against the Church's Tax-Exempt Status

A challenge facing Canadian Christian churches, ministries and missions groups

nomorecharitablestatus.com

They sum it up this way

"

• We should not be using money taken from taxpayers who don’t want to help us
• We should not be giving up control or ownership of the Lord’s money and people to unbelievers
• Charitable law creates an unnecessary burden, strain, and limitation on ministry groups
• We should not pledge to work for the world’s idea of “public benefit”
• We should not be depending on something that could easily be removed from underneath us"

I am fine if you can find all this in the Bible.
If not....just another thousand and one reasons to not obey God.
Since "churches" in the Bible were actually congregations, at times house churches.
It would be more correct to only participate in modern house churches .....either way assemble with other Christians to worship the Lord and fellowship.

As far as tax exempt, since tax exempt does not mean the government pay churches anything….they just do not pay taxes. But I do believe churches should be able to invest in things and taxes paid on that.