What are you?

[bbyrd009]

So again I have to wonder, what does a human being look like without sin? The only one who fits that bill is Jesus himself

yet little kids “sin” all the time, and we give them a pass, huh
…for by the law is the knowledge of sin
so, ill tell you a secret, imo; when you hear people talking about sin, discussing sin, worried about sinning, worried about not sinning, they are under the law, see, regardless of any declarations to the contrary. And this might be coming across wrong, as i dont mean “bad” ok, just something to be overcome, which i def got plenty myself.

And there will be many other signs of this under the law thing, they will talk in facts and “proof,” and use other courtroom jargon, seeking “proof” is a big one, or even saying “we are freed from the law” in the same breath as the other courtroom stuff, so unawares iow, and there’ll be a lotta “this is that, that is this, its like this and like that and like this” type stuff too i guess, iow no manna (what is it?) and lotsa quail lol

so anyway the solution to your logical conundrum might be …the Father judges no one…and also maybe forgive and you will be forgiven
.
as to the op youd have to clarify “when you die” a little more, do you mean figuratively or literally? I ask bc “Lastly, can you realize this new man now, in the flesh?” kinda makes it unclear

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Lastly, can you realize this new man now, in the flesh? If so, how would your experience of life change?

Perhaps I would volunteer more.

To live a life without fear, fully dedicated to the Lord, unconcerned by the world or those in it. Able to let go of all things not of God -- friends, family, relations. Unconcerned with wealth, or comfort, or reputation. Lowly in appearance. Boundless in energy. Filled with love for all men. Grateful to God for all things.

I can see this in my mind but am still afraid to realize it in my walk. Lord, please help me.

 

[bbyrd009]

What were Satan and the rebel angels in conflict with? Or Eve?

ha well what is the fruit of the tree of knowledge, after all?

 

[bbyrd009]

To live a life without fear, fully dedicated to the Lord, unconcerned by the world or those in it. Able to let go of all things not of God -- friends, family, relations. Unconcerned with wealth, or comfort, or reputation. Lowly in appearance. Boundless in energy. Filled with love for all men. Grateful to God for all things.

I can see this in my mind but am still afraid to realize it in my walk. Lord, please help me.

you might note that you just described most old people :)

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Look to the seventy-two. Jesus sent them on their way with no bag, no second cloak. They wandered from village to village, surviving off the generosity of those they met.

Look to Paul. He traveled throughout Europe and Asia Minor, suffered innumerable hardships in the service of the Lord.

Look to Jesus. He lived a pauper's life. He had no home, no wealth, no physical comfort.

Each of the above willingly humbled themselves in service to God. Each diminished themselves. They became less so God might become more.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

you might note that you just described most old people :)

How so?

 

[bbyrd009]

How so?

well, maybe not most, anymore, as most old people we might know today are baby boomers i guess, but you might see some reflections to old people even a generation ago, maybe? Those of the Silent Generation iow

 

[Ziggy]

for by the law is the knowledge of sin

Not a legalist here but,
The Law says, Thou shalt Love God with all thy heart and mind and soul.
If you don't know God, you can't Love God, therefore you are a sinner.
Because it is only by this ONE law alone, that comes the knowledge of either knowing or not knowing God.

And only through knowing God can one have faith.
And we know that whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.

It's circular.
Not legalistic, just fact.

Hugs

 

[LearningToLetGo]

as to the op youd have to clarify “when you die” a little more, do you mean figuratively or literally?

Yes, I mean literally, as in rigor mortis kind of death.

I ask bc “Lastly, can you realize this new man now, in the flesh?” kinda makes it unclear

See post [URL="https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/what-are-you.48902/page-3#post-1350290"]#42[/URL] above for my interpretation of what it means to realize the 'new man' now in the flesh.

 

[David H.]

Yes, I mean literally, as in rigor mortis kind of death.

1 John 3:1-4 says we shall be like He is (The resurrected Jesus)

 

[bbyrd009]

1 John 3:1-4 says we shall be like He is (The resurrected Jesus)

well, but not after literal death though

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, I mean literally, as in rigor mortis kind of death

I die daily

 

[bbyrd009]

Not legalistic, just fact

ha ok just the facts :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This has dire implications. All men sin. Aside from Jesus, no man (or woman) has been, is, or will ever be free of sin. Yes, God can and does forgive (indeed forget) sin, but that is slightly different than having no sin.

Thus, if all men sin -- including those who are born again -- and if God will not abide sin, then the corollary is that no one is saved.

Please, help me out of this logical trap.

I can try to help you here. It’s not so easy or natural to talk about our walk openly but you’re a pretty open person.
It’s sort of like…well…let’s look at Abraham, because the spirit of the matter can be seen more clearly if we look on him as if he were a…parable to relate to our own struggle.

God promised a child.
It didn’t happen immediately.
His wife scoffed/laughed, then denied scoffing, then in impatience told him to go make the child himself.
That child of their own planning and working had to be sent away because it’s only the child God produces that receives the promise.

If you can peer into the spirit of the words that’s what helps.
To those who trust God and learn to wait for the child He has promised, they don’t work to try to produce the child that will receive the inheritance. They just keep trusting He will do it, even though it doesn’t happen immediately. They don’t scoff and say He cannot make them that child or cannot change their inside until after they die.

It also helps to look on a troubling verse/verses as a coming promise rather than a done reality. So one man will say, well, even though I might think I still sin in untrust, I obviously am not doing so since it says I CANT sin.
But you look at the verse and say, but…I DO sin in unbelief and worry sometimes or because of my flesh sometimes, and that’s my reality and I see it so it’s preposterous to be told I can’t be sinning when I see the worries, angers, resentments and selfishnesses in myself. So you’re trying to grasp the verse into your reality rather than in my previous paragraph where a man is denying his reality because of a verse.

So it’s a promise, rather than a done deal. It goes well with the verse that says, after you have struggled awhile, God will confirm, strengthen and establish you. It’s a promise of what He will do if you keep trusting and waiting.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

What are you when you die and your sinful nature is stripped away to reveal the new man? What does this new man look like? Will you even recognize yourself? Will you have a self to recognize? Lastly, can you realize this new man now, in the flesh? If so, how would your experience of life change?

Forgive me if I misunderstood. You sound as if being reborn in Christ is something that happens later?

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Forgive me if I misunderstood. You sound as if being reborn in Christ is something that happens later?

Reborn in Christ is step one. It happens while we get live. I am referring to the final product, so to speak. What will the end result be?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Reborn in Christ is step one. It happens while we get live. I am referring to the final product, so to speak. What will the end result be?

Eternity with God.
Eternal life from eternal irrevocable Salvation. Jesus did the work to seal the promise.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Eternity with God.
Eternal life from eternal irrevocable Salvation. Jesus did the work to seal the promise.

Exactly! But what does that mean? You -as you- are not made for eternity. The scope of it would drive any living human mad, so something must change.

This is me, musing on a summer Eve ing. :-)

 

[bbyrd009]

Exactly! But what does that mean? You -as you- are not made for eternity. The scope of it would drive any living human mad, so something must change.

so, become like a little child might be a recognition that you made you—as you—back when you were quite young; it started at about 18 months old. Before that, you could not even recognize your “self” in a mirror! And also why we get a new name i guess

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Exactly! But what does that mean? You -as you- are not made for eternity. The scope of it would drive any living human mad, so something must change.

This is me, musing on a summer Eve ing. :-)

Our soul returns to God who gave it.

Remember in Genesis and the creation of Adam?

Genesis 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.