What did Jesus die to save us from?

[Lambano]

Do you think that Jesus is capable of transforming Satan into a holy entity?

Is that harder than whipping up a whole Universe from scratch, ahead of schedule? (The Creation account doesn't say if the project came in under budget. There may be some things even God can't do.)

 

[Patrick1966]

Is that harder than whipping up a whole Universe from scratch, ahead of schedule? (The Creation account doesn't say if the project came in under budget. There may be some things even God can't do.)

"that God may be all in all." This comes after...

Revelation 14:10
ESV
he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Jesus can and will transform Satan. In fact, he will personally supervise the process.

 

[St. SteVen]

One of my working theories is that the torments of Hades/Sheol described by Jesus in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is intended be rehabilitative. Sort of like Catholic Purgatory.

Agree.

 

[quietthinker]

One of my working theories is that the torments of Hades/Sheol described by Jesus in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is intended be rehabilitative. Sort of like Catholic Purgatory. God's final attempt to get our attention. Nothing like pain to drive a man to repentance - or deeper into resentment. For the hard-cases who will not repent, all that's left is the burning garbage pit of Gehenna at the final judgement at the End of the Age. Whether or not there will be hard-cases at the End of the Age is an open question.

(The Deceiver is apparently immortal and will be tormented "into an Age of Ages". I'll not waste any sympathy for the Devil. "Please allow me to introduce myself...")

why do you think Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

 

[Gottservant]

I was raised evangelical, but find myself questioning much of what we were taught in church.
This gets me in trouble with those, like me, who were raised to NEVER question the answers the church fed us.
Questions, it seems are for unbelievers. A healthy skepticism is viewed as agnostic, or unbelief.
And unbelief, seen as a loss of salvation. (sigh)

Therefore, the question in this topic title seems pivotal. What did Jesus die to save us from?

If the correct answer is, "Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God.", then essentially...
Jesus died to save us from God. Could anything be more pointless than that?

Just to be clear, I understand that Jesus paid the death penalty for our sin.
And that this paves the way for a restored relationship with God.
Which seems to be the plan. As opposed to the common belief.
Which claims that God's plan is to incinerate the vast majority of humankind. Or worse.

What did Jesus die to save us from?

I look at what Christ did on the cross, constructively. Christ died, to "imprint" 'flux' on our heart. Once our heart is in flux, we have the momentum to avoid sin. Avoiding sin, saves us.

 

[St. SteVen]

I look at what Christ did on the cross, constructively. Christ died, to "imprint" 'flux' on our heart. Once our heart is in flux, we have the momentum to avoid sin. Avoiding sin, saves us.

Avoiding sin saves us?
If that's true, we are are in BIG trouble!

Perhaps we should let our Savior save us. He is the only one qualified.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[QuantumBit]

Do you think that Jesus is capable of transforming Satan into a holy entity?

Yes...

Isaiah 11:6-8
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den."

 

[QuantumBit]

One of my working theories is that the torments of Hades/Sheol described by Jesus in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is intended be rehabilitative. Sort of like Catholic Purgatory.

As One who believes that the Bible teaches reincarnation (Mystery of Iniquity), I view the Rich Man and Lazarus as the same person living two lives simultaneously. In other words, the Rich Man is Lazarus in his previous Life. Lazarus is able to look back on his past life and discovers the meaning of Life at that point. We are here to be corrected.

This is actually a teaching outside of Christianity that many believe in as well. The verses fit perfectly...

Luke 16:25
"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

The word 'likewise' is teaching us that there is an 'even exchange' between the two lives. Everything is balanced. All is just. All is fair.

 

[St. SteVen]

Patrick1966 said:

Do you think that Jesus is capable of transforming Satan into a holy entity?

Yes...

Isaiah 11:6-8
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den."

Good response. I agree.

The UR perspective is that ALL of creation will be restored. EVERY created thing. The angels are created things. IMHO

Furthermore. it is an opportunity for the ABSOLUTE triumph of GRACE and forgiveness.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What could be MORE fitting than God reconciling His relationship with Satan?

 

[St. SteVen]

It does not matter what "most" any group says about this. What does the Word of God say? And are you prepared to believe and accept what Scripture says? The final authority regarding all things spiritual is the written Word of God. Regardless of what people say, or think, or speculate.

Sounds like you have made a god out of a book.

If God spoke to you (and you KNEW it was Him) and what he said contradicted the Bible, what would you do?

Are you prepared to disregard a book based on a real live interaction with God?

Which of these is a greater authority?
A face-to-face meeting with God, or a translation of fragments of copies
of copies (with additions) mistranslated by doctrinally biased humans?

Final authority? Don't kid yourself.

 

[Patrick1966]

Patrick1966 said:

Do you think that Jesus is capable of transforming Satan into a holy entity?

Good response. I agree.

The UR perspective is that ALL of creation will be restored. EVERY created thing. The angels are created things. IMHO

Furthermore. it is an opportunity for the ABSOLUTE triumph of GRACE and forgiveness.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What could be MORE fitting than God reconciling His relationship with Satan?

Satan's transformation and existence in the new Earth is going to be an everlasting monument to God's love, mercy, and greatness. Satan is going to be a big, fluffy, adorable, love machine giving out hugs and candies.

 

[St. SteVen]

Satan's transformation and existence in the new Earth is going to be an everlasting monument to God's love, mercy, and greatness. Satan is going to be a big, fluffy, adorable, love machine giving out hugs and candies.

LOL
Yup. Every knee will bow and tongue joyfully acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.
On earth, in heaven, and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23,Romans 14:11,Philippians 2:10,Revelation 15:4)

 

[St. SteVen]

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23,Romans 14:11,Philippians 2:10,Revelation 15:4)

Isaiah 45:23 New English Translation (NET)
I solemnly make this oath[a]—
what I say is true and reliable:[b]
‘Surely every knee will bow to me,
every tongue will solemnly affirm;[c]

Romans 14:11 NET
For it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me,
and every tongue will give praise to God.”[a]

Revelation 15:4 NET
Who will not fear you, O Lord,
and glorify[a] your name, because you alone are holy?[b]
All nations[c] will come and worship before you
for your righteous acts[d] have been revealed.”

 

[St. SteVen]

Revelation 15:4 NET
Who will not fear you, O Lord,
and glorify[a] your name, because you alone are holy?[b]
All nations[c] will come and worship before you
for your righteous acts[d] have been revealed.”

Note: It doesn't say SOME nations.