WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT

[Scott Downey]

So you believe Jesus coming by water and blood is that which is shown on the cross and not necessarily water (by woman) or water (by John) but those the two parts that bear witness in the earth on the cross there after he has died?

I showed the context. John is most emphatic; he witnessed the death of Christ.

John 19
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.

 

[Verily]

I showed the context. John is most emphatic; he witnessed the death of Christ.

John 19
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.

Yes, I understand what came out of his side at the cross as two parts of the three that bear witness, but what did the two signify in relation to the third. We see the side of Adam opened to make a woman from the same, a picture forms there between the man from earth and the man from heaven.

 

[Verily]

I don’t understand what you are talking about here.

I understand that we must be Born Again to, see the Kingdom Of God...I understand the word, the way God has brought me to understand it....I don’t understand you, or your interpretation/ understanding of scripture..sorry.

This was how I became Born Of The Spirit.

As the Spirit was indwelling my body..he did this.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....it was a supernatural Living spiritual rebirth.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 3:3-8​

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King James Version​

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Nicodemus was a Pharisee he was speaking to there right? If so wouldnt Jesus words to him have anything to do with the Pharisees rejection of Johns baptism there?

For example,

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[Ritajanice]

Nicodemus was a Pharisee he was speaking to there right? If so wouldnt Jesus words to him have anything to do with the Pharisees rejection of Johns baptism there?

For example,

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

He was speaking to Nicodemus on how one becomes Born Of The Spirit.yes, Nicodemus was a Pharisee...he was in the natural,/ carnal...therefore hadn’t a clue what Jesus was talking about.......the same as I wouldn’t have understood when I was carnal.............I can relate to Jesus words, because that’s how I was Born Again.

Of course the Spirit brings us to understanding Gods word...as we are his spirit children...once our spirit is Born Again...we then start the process of growing in Christ......a very long hard narrow path we walk.
We are in the world...we are no longer of the world...we belong to God.as Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[Verily]

He was speaking to Nicodemus on how one becomes Born Of The Spirit.yes, Nicodemus was a Pharisee...he was in the natural, therefore hadn’t a clue what Jesus was talking about.......the same as I wouldn’t have understood when I was carnal.........I can relate to Jesus words, because that’s how I was Born Again.

Sorry, Verily..your post makes no sense to me.

I am not talking about you RitaJanice I am talking about the scripture and you keep inserting yourself into the conversation and that makes no sense to me either.

He said born of water and Spirit. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees specifically rejected the counsel of God not being baptized by John whereas the others justified God

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

So when Jesus said,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And the Pharisees rejected Johns baptism (which the others did not) and in the context of the Kingdom as it relates to the same Jesus says,

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him (See also Luke 7:9): and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

 

[Ritajanice]

I am not talking about you RitaJanice I am talking about the scripture and you keep inserting yourself into the conversation and that makes no sense to me either.

I am speaking my way, I don’t speak how you want me to speak...I am talking about what it means to be Born Again....what Born Of water and Born Of The Spirit means..then you come in with other scripture....

I’m talking about my rebirth....not talking about.. Nicodemus ...you brought him into it.

He said born of water and Spirit. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees specifically rejected the counsel of God not being baptized by John whereas the others justified God

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

So when Jesus said,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And the Pharisees rejected Johns baptism (which the others did not) and in the context of the Kingdom as it relates to the same Jesus says,

Not sure what you are trying to convey here?

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him (See also Luke 7:9): and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

I said Nicodemus didn’t understand being Born Again, because he was carnal...?

Why was he carnal...why couldn’t he understand Jesus words?

What are you trying to say with the scripture that you are posting?

 

[Scott Downey]

I am not talking about you RitaJanice I am talking about the scripture and you keep inserting yourself into the conversation and that makes no sense to me either.

He said born of water and Spirit. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees specifically rejected the counsel of God not being baptized by John whereas the others justified God

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

So when Jesus said,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And the Pharisees rejected Johns baptism (which the others did not) and in the context of the Kingdom as it relates to the same Jesus says,

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him (See also Luke 7:9): and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

When you are born again by the Spirit, you are Born through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

This is what Christ means for water and spirit, and it has nothing to do with being physically born of a woman as that is flesh and not spirit

Being born again is of the Spirit and not anything to do with this earth, it is a heavenly transformation, it is not water baptism done by a man. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into His church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


Titus 3

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Verily]

I am speaking my way, I don’t speak how you want me to speak...I am talking about what it means to be Born Again....what Born Of water and Born Of The Spirit...

Not interested in your way, interested in God's

Not sure what you are trying to convey here?

I think I'll let yousit this one out

I said Nicodemus didn’t understand being Born Again, because he was carnal...?

Yes...?

Why was he carnal...why couldn’t he understand Jesus words?

What...?

What are you trying to say with the scripture that you are posting?

What a mess

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul declares that the preaching of the gospel by which you are saved, does not include water baptism

It forces the emogee into the text!

Sectarianism Is Sin​

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all [d]speak the same thing, and that there be no [e]divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Ce’s household, that there are [f]contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

 

[Verily]

When you are born again by the Spirit, you are Born through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

This is what Christ means for water and spirit, and it has nothing to do with being physically born of a woman as that is flesh and not spirit

Being born again is of the Spirit and not anything to do with this earth, it is a heavenly transformation, it is not water baptism done by a man. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into His church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


Titus 3

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Thanks Scott Downey, just trying to get a feel for all the contradictions on this thing.

 

[Ritajanice]

Not interested in your way, interested in God's

I gave you Gods word on how we are Born Of The Spirit

I think I'll let yousit this one out

Yes...?

Take a look at your own confusion....

What...?

What a mess

Show me my mess, instead of your opinion, which counts for nothing..

Please try not to get frustrated because you aren’t understanding Gods word.

 

[Verily]

I gave you Gods word on how we are Born Of The Spirit

His words are fine as they are

Take a look at your own confusion....

I am confused at yours

Show me my mess?

I responded where it was

Please try not to get frustrated because you aren’t understanding Gods word.

I do not equate your words with God's as you might

Your on ignore

 

[rwb]

Here more specifically, would indicate the Spirit is both (water and Spirit) and so would indicate that water is not of woman if I am understanding correctly.

Christ, the living water is Spirit that became flesh, and though His Holy Spirit whosoever believes has eternal life. Has nothing to do with human birth (other than the fact humans must be physically alive to hear and believe Christ), because no human, not even Christ, possesses eternal physical life. Entrance into the Kingdom of God is not through flesh & blood, but according to grace through faith. If physical birth is a requirement for entrance into the Kingdom of God, Christ would not say His Kingdom is not of this world! How could His Kingdom not be of this physical world if entrance into His Kingdom is through physical as well as spiritual new birth? Why does Christ say we must be born again, if physical birth must accompany spiritual birth to enter into the Kingdom of God? Isn't that why Christ tells Nicodemus that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit? Nicodemus asked if one must enter again into his mother's womb to be born physically again. Christ saying that which is flesh is flesh seems to indicate that entrance into the Kingdom of God is not through physical water that comes when man is physically born. The Kingdom of God is NOT of this world, because physical birth is NOT "living water" which man must partake of to be born again for entrance into the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God that is from above!

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Verily]

Christ, the living water is Spirit that became flesh, and though His Holy Spirit whosoever believes has eternal life. Has nothing to do with human birth (other than the fact humans must be physically alive to hear and believe Christ), because no human, not even Christ, possesses eternal physical life. Entrance into the Kingdom of God is not through flesh & blood, but according to grace through faith. If physical birth is a requirement for entrance into the Kingdom of God, Christ would not say His Kingdom is not of this world! How could His Kingdom not be of this physical world if entrance into His Kingdom is through physical as well as spiritual new birth? Why does Christ say we must be born again, if physical birth must accompany spiritual birth to enter into the Kingdom of God? Isn't that why Christ tells Nicodemus that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit? Nicodemus asked if one must enter again into his mother's womb to be born physically again. Christ saying that which is flesh is flesh seems to indicate that entrance into the Kingdom of God is not through physical water that comes when man is physically born. The Kingdom of God is NOT of this world, because physical birth is NOT "living water" which man must partake of to be born again for entrance into the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God that is from above!

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Thanks rwb, I will add this one to my collection of various contradictions that can be found on this thing.

 

[DJT_47]

Baptism=the water at which point you also receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And read Romans 6

 

[Verily]

John was "born of woman", and was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15) and he himself baptized others (even our Lord) in water. When Jesus came out to him to be baptized it says,

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Seeing that in Mark 1:8 John says

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Which baptism did John need of Jesus if Jesus was to baptize with the Holy Ghost but John was already filled with the same in his mothers womb

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

John (the water baptizer) who was filled with the Holy Ghost from His mothers womb said to Jesus, I have need to be baptized of thee,...

 

[Verily]

Baptism=the water at which point you also receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And read Romans 6

And these received the Holy Ghost before being water baptized

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Which could even answer my question since John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb but John indicated he had need to be baptized by Jesus

 

[Scott Downey]

And these received the Holy Ghost before being water baptized

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Which could even answer my question since John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb but John indicated he had need to be baptized by Jesus

Water baptism does not give you the Holy Spirit, God does, and why does God indwell believers?
The primary reason is they are sealed for salvation. And that we are then His people having been given new life and a new spirit which God creates in us. God transforms our entire spirit to become spiritually alive to God.

Water baptism by a man is a sign, an outer witness that we are of His church of believers, cause God already did His work in us.
There are people who get water baptized who later on do not believe, so you know it is a ceremonial sign only of our inward change.

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, he that believes not shall be damned.
But that baptism is performed by the Spirit baptizing us into His church. Of course, unbelievers have not been baptized by the Spirit into His church

Believing in Christ is salvation so the only way all the things Jesus said about being believing and saved is like I wrote above

John 5 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

v21 also proves God's work inside you is that you believe in Christ so that you are saved.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

There are many meanings to baptism, those who believe, the Spirit has baptized them into His church, those who do not believe have not been baptized by the Spirit into the church.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ephesians 1, see says the same thing, believing in Christ == sealed by the Spirit for salvation, that is the gospel by which you are saved

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The praise of His glory is that God mercifully saves us by faith, and not by righteous works, and this is according to His will for us.

Eph 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Verily]

Water baptism does not give you the Holy Spirit

Which is why I said, "And these received the Holy Ghost before being water baptized"

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Similarly here it shows

Acts 18:24-25 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

What I am looking at is Jesus coming by water and blood (not by water only) and what this signifies (as it relates to the three that bear witness in the earth) and this by comparing between places where others might be putting their thumbs down on this specifically (which may not be the same way I might).

Just out of sheer curiosity which baptism do you believe John the baptist (the water baptizer) referred to (who was in himself filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb) have need of from Jesus?

Because it says that the Pharisees which rejected the counsel of God against themselves (not being baptized by John) heard (in John 4:1-2) that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Did the man (sent by God) filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb (sent to baptize with water) so that Messiah be manifest to Israel need to be baptized with another baptism? If so, which one was he referring to?

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?