What do you think............

[L.A.M.B.]

I still believe in the spiritual gifts set in order in the church by the Spirit as he will.

1 Cor.14:19-25 ( context )
V.22 therefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth NOT for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This is why ppl say tongues are not for today.....v.23 if therefore the WHOLE CHURCH be come together in ONE PLACE,and ALL speak with tongues, and there come in THOSE THAT ARE UNLEARNED,OR UNBELIEVERS, WILL THEY NOT SAY YE ARE MAD.......[ it's fake,not real,been done away with, ect.]

Now PROPHESY, or if God speaks through one person for the benefit of the body or one in the body, this does not IMO make them A PROPHET but rather a yeilded vessel that the Spirit will and can use.
I have had God speak TO ME or reveal something he required or wanted me to follow to be in his will, and I have had another CONFIRM what God has already told me. Isn't this prophesy of the Spirit ?

The gifts of the Spirit or his work in a body of believers is not THAT PERSONS OWN GIFT but is a working of the Spirit.

I do not believe God has modern day called prophets,they ceased after John ,who was in the spirit of Elijah and Christ's forerunner, all the others spoke on God's behalf to Israel.
We have preachers,teachers ministers,evangelists to spread the word today.

There may be more and different thoughts later on
What do you think...........

 

[farouk]

I still believe in the spiritual gifts set in order in the church by the Spirit as he will.

1 Cor.14:19-25 ( context )
V.22 therefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth NOT for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This is why ppl say tongues are not for today.....v.23 if therefore the WHOLE CHURCH be come together in ONE PLACE,and ALL speak with tongues, and there come in THOSE THAT ARE UNLEARNED,OR UNBELIEVERS, WILL THEY NOT SAY YE ARE MAD.......[ it's fake,not real,been done away with, ect.]

Now PROPHESY, or if God speaks through one person for the benefit of the body or one in the body, this does not IMO make them A PROPHET but rather a yeilded vessel that the Spirit will and can use.
I have had God speak TO ME or reveal something he required or wanted me to follow to be in his will, and I have had another CONFIRM what God has already told me. Isn't this prophesy of the Spirit ?

The gifts of the Spirit or his work in a body of believers is not THAT PERSONS OWN GIFT but is a working of the Spirit.

I do not believe God has modern day called prophets,they ceased after John ,who was in the spirit of Elijah and Christ's forerunner, all the others spoke on God's behalf to Israel.
We have preachers,teachers ministers,evangelists to spread the word today.

There may be more and different thoughts later on
What do you think...........

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d We do now have all the teaching authority we need in Scripture now, which is complete......... :)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I do not believe God has modern day called prophets,they ceased after John ,who was in the spirit of Elijah and Christ's forerunner, all the others spoke on God's behalf to Israel.

Yeah, I do think the office has been restored and we do have a few, but not a ton. The biggest problem is there is generally a poor understanding of the office, and conversely of the gift. But I do have to say I don't know how many live their faith out without God speaking to them prophetically. I don't. It's completely foreign to my understanding of how Christianity is supposed to be lived out. That's not to say someone can't be a Christian and not receive prophetically from God, but it just seems so... impersonal, like "Yes, I have a relationship with the Lord, but He never speaks to me the way He did with believers during New Testament times." It becomes an entirely different religion once you accept such a premise, IMO. God spoke to them in dreams and visions, and He still speaks to us today through the same means.

 

[Enoch111]

I do not believe God has modern day called prophets, they ceased after John ,who was in the spirit of Elijah and Christ's forerunner, all the others spoke on God's behalf to Israel. We have preachers, teachers ministers, evangelists to spread the word today.

That is correct. The apostles and prophets are with us in the complete Bible. Therefore the ministry gifts are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The book of Revelation has closed out genuine prophecies and prophets. And John the Baptist was not the last prophet. That was the apostle John.

 

[Nancy]

That is correct. The apostles and prophets are with us in the complete Bible. Therefore the ministry gifts are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The book of Revelation has closed out genuine prophecies and prophets. And John the Baptist was not the last prophet. That was the apostle John.

Hi Enoch, Some of my translations are different in introduction to books. In the book of Revelations, some say the Revelation of St. John and others say the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I suppose it's both. Hmm.

 

[Enoch111]

Hi Enoch, Some of my translations are different in introduction to books. In the book of Revelations, some say the Revelation of St. John and others say the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I suppose it's both. Hmm.

It is both. It is the Revelation which God the Father gave to the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave the same to the apostle John directly and also via an angel: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, [1] which God [the Father] gave unto Him, to shew unto His [Christ's] servants things which must shortly come to pass; and [2] He sent and signified it [3] by His angel unto His servant John: (Rev 1:1)

That is quite an amazing statement. The Revelation (Ἀποκάλυψις Apokalypsis) actually originated with God the Father! But John closed this book of prophecy by telling us that no man can add to these prophecies. Which means that prophets and prophecies terminated with John and this book. And since Revelation speaks on only twelve apostles of the Lamb, there are no other apostles which God recognizes (Judas Iscariot excluded and Paul included).

 

[Nancy]

It is both. It is the Revelation which God the Father gave to the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave the same to the apostle John directly and also via an angel: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, [1] which God [the Father] gave unto Him, to shew unto His [Christ's] servants things which must shortly come to pass; and [2] He sent and signified it [3] by His angel unto His servant John: (Rev 1:1)

That is quite an amazing statement. The Revelation (Ἀποκάλυψις Apokalypsis) actually originated with God the Father! But John closed this book of prophecy by telling us that no man can add to these prophecies. Which means that prophets and prophecies terminated with John and this book. And since Revelation speaks on only twelve apostles of the Lamb, there are no other apostles which God recognizes (Judas Iscariot excluded and Paul included).

Agreed!

 

[Hidden In Him]

That is quite an amazing statement. The Revelation (Ἀποκάλυψις Apokalypsis) actually originated with God the Father! But John closed this book of prophecy by telling us that no man can add to these prophecies. Which means that prophets and prophecies terminated with John and this book.

You are practically adding to the book yourself by rewriting the verse, LoL. It doesn't say "no man can add to these prophecies," it says καὶ ἐάν τις ἀφέλῃ ἀπὸ τῶν λόγων τοῦ βιβλίου τῆς προφητείας ταύτης, ἀφελεῖ ὁ θεὸς τὸ μέρος αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τοῦ ξύλου τῆς ζωῆς starts with, "And if anyone should take away from the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the book of Life."

1. The verse starts with the word "if," a word which implies there's a possibility of men doing so, hence the warning.

2. It doesn't say "no one can add to these prophecies," it says "If anyone should take away from the book of this prophecy." That's defining for you what book he is specifically talking about, and it is not the Bible. The entire Bible hadn't even been decided upon yet and wouldn't be for at least another 150 years. By "book of this prophecy," He was referring specifically to the book of Revelation, and not all of scripture or even all the New Testament.

3. If there was no possibility of men adding to that book, then His warning that "God shall take away his part from the book of Life," becomes an empty threat, and irrelevant. It's like warning every man who reads the book, "If anyone sprouteth feathers and a beak and flyeth to the planet Jupiter, he can forgetteth making heaven, yea verily." God is not in the habit if making empty, irrelevant statements.

If you are going to make an attempt at suggesting the word of God says prophecy has passed away, this isn't the passage to do it with. It says no such thing.

 

[Enoch111]

It doesn't say "no one can add to these prophecies," it says "If anyone should take away from the book of this prophecy."

You are contradicting what is plainly stated. Before it says "take away" it says "add". So let's see exactly what is stated in Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What is John warning everyone about? He is warning anyone who would dare to ADD or SUBTRACT from the book of Revelation that there will be dire consequences. And since it is in fact chronologically and spiritually the last book of the Bible, he is precluding all further prophecies.

 

[farouk]

You are contradicting what is plainly stated. Before it says "take away" it says "add". So let's see exactly what is stated in Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What is John warning everyone about? He is warning anyone who would dare to ADD or SUBTRACT from the book of Revelation that there will be dire consequences. And since it is in fact chronologically and spiritually the last book of the Bible, he is precluding all further prophecies.

With Revelation, the Scriptures are indeed complete..............

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are contradicting what is plainly stated. Before it says "take away" it says "add". So let's see exactly what is stated in Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What is John warning everyone about? He is warning anyone who would dare to ADD or SUBTRACT from the book of Revelation that there will be dire consequences. And since it is in fact chronologically and spiritually the last book of the Bible, he is precluding all further prophecies.

No it's not, LoL. You are simply teaching a party line that has no basis whatsoever in the original text, and that's no matter what text you favor.

The accusation that I was somehow trying to "hide" from v.18 simply because I didn't quote it is rather petty.

 

[Hidden In Him]

With Revelation, the Scriptures are indeed complete..............

Farouk, no offense, but no matter how many times you make an empty statement, this will not make it true. If I have a problem with you, it's that you have 28,000 posts and majority of them are as empty as a dried up lake. At least Enoch occasionally puts substance behind his posts.

Again, no offense, but put some actual content in your posts if you are going to get involved in discussions like this. Simply repeating yourself ad nauseam won't make it true, and it won't add anything to the conversation. Your opinion is not the final word, so simply stating it over and over again will not close the matter.

 

[farouk]

Farouk, no offense, but no matter how many times you make an empty statement, this will not make it true. If I have a problem with you, it's that you have 28,000 posts and majority of them are as empty as a dried up lake. At least Enoch occasionally puts substance behind his posts.

Again, no offense, but put some actual content in your posts if you are going to get involved in discussions like this. Simply repeating yourself ad nauseam won't make it true, and it won't add anything to the conversation either.

What I meant is that beyond the Apostolic period - which was transitional - what we now have in the Word of God is complete revelation.

The events in Acts, for example, came before the Epistles were given.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What I meant is that beyond the Apostolic period - which was transitional - what we now have in the Word of God is complete revelation.

The events in Acts, for example, came before the Epistles were given.

I knew what you meant, LoL.

 

[farouk]

I knew what you meant, LoL.

Well, this would be widely held among believers so maybe it's not so unusual that I would have said what I did. In the end it's about not trusting in ecclesiastical authority or ingenious interpretational schemes but in what's clearly revealed, comparing Scripture with Scripture.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, this would be widely held among believers so maybe it's not so unusual that I would have said what I did.

I'm aware of that, but assuming that everything "widely held" is going to always be correct is a mistake. This forum is currently overrun by non-Trinitarians who are now in the strong majority here. I'm not going to bow to public opinion here or anywhere else simply because something becomes the most widely held position.

In the end it's about not trusting in ecclesiastical authority or ingenious interpretational schemes but in what's clearly revealed, comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Yes, and that's why I actually cited the verse word for word, and that is what we should be discussing, not theory or status quo or prevailing opinions.

By your closing statement, I'm guessing you agree.

 

[farouk]

I'm aware of that, but assuming that everything "widely held" is going to always be correct is a mistake. This forum is currently overrun by non-Trinitarians who are now in the strong majority here. I'm not going to bow to public opinion here or anywhere else simply because something becomes the most widely held position.


Yes, and that's why I actually cited the verse word for word, and that is what we should be discussing, not theory or status quo or prevailing opinions.

By your closing statement, I'm guessing you agree.

Well.....I do see Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being strongly present in Scripture; it's foundational.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well.....I do see Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being strongly present in Scripture; it's foundational.

As do I. But if we are speaking of foundations, my argument in the initial post is that spiritual gifts like prophecy were likewise foundational to early Christianity, and that when we divorce ourselves from it in the name of "the Bible is now complete," we in effect divorce ourselves from true New Testament Christianity and morph it into something else; something foreign to the foundations of the faith laid down in the gospels, Acts and the NT epistles.

 

[farouk]

As do I. But if we are speaking of foundations, my argument in the initial post is that spiritual gifts like prophecy were likewise foundational to early Christianity, and that when we divorce ourselves from it in the name of "the Bible is now complete," we in effect divorce ourselves from true New Testament Christianity and morph it into something else; something foreign to the foundations of the faith laid down in Acts and the NT epistles.

Well, I would tend to "when that which is perfect is come" in 1 Cor. 13 meaning the completion of Scripture.

 

[Enoch111]

The accusation that I was somehow trying to "hide" from v.18 simply because I didn't quote it is rather petty.

You should have quoted the entire passage, not focused on one side and ignored the other. Both adding or subtracting to or from Scripture is forbidden.