What does being born again mean?

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Initiation into the new covenant must be ministered to you by the apostles! Our spiritual fathers

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[Lizbeth]

(Are you saved?)

Funny, that's what I have been wanting to ask you. Do YOU have a testimony of having met and received Christ as your Saviour? Please do share it, I would love to hear how He revealed the gospel to you and changed your life.

 

[Lizbeth]

Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!

Sorry, but this is very deceptive theefaith. It places the church on an equal footing as Christ Jesus Himself......this is why the Catholic church is the god and idol of many captive souls. You need the Holy Spirit to reveal the scriptures to you as God intended because only the Spirit of God knows the mind of God. Not the carnal mind of man, for the carnal mind is indeed ENMITY AGAINST GOD as Catholic theology and its fruits unfortunately demonstrates.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All men are redeemed not justified or sanctified, or salvation

If all men were redeemed then all men are saved.
A man is redeemed when a man is forgiven. Not all men are forgiven.

"7...redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" Ephesians 1:7

"14...redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Colossians 1:14​

No man is redeemed until his sins are forgiven.
You are in a cult.

 

[theefaith]

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Catholicism is blasphemous, and the fruits show it.

much of what you think is attributable to the church is actually not but is a counterfeit sect calling it self catholic
it’s modernists, liberal, heretical and apostate

2 cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

[theefaith]

Christians must be taught

We cannot read scriptures and decide doctrine for ourselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.


One faith!

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

One heart / one mind

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apostles received the truth from Christ and are inspired by the Holy Spirit and are commanded to teach all men! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19

Apostles have same mission, power, ministry, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21

The sacred deposit of faith

Thee faith once delivered to the saints! Jude 1:3

Without (revealed catholic) faith it is impossible to please God! Heb 11:6

The church possesses the truths revealed by Christ in person, not from scripture, Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 18:17

The church is eternal!

The same yesterday, today, and forever!

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[theefaith]

The Ark of Salvation!

The church is founded by Christ and the sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men!

The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32

The church and the sacraments are necessary for and the means of salvation and the life of grace!

Redemption: Eph 2
Justification: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38
Sanctification: Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10 Jn 15:5
Salvation: Matt 24:13 Rom 13:11

The body of Christ:
1 Corinthians 12:27

The one true church:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

The household of faith:
Gal 6:10

The house of God:
1 Tim 3:15

The church of the living God:
1 Tim 3:15

The kingdom of God on earth:
Dan 2:44 Matt 6:33 Matt 16:18 Matt 12:28 Mk 1:15 Jn 3:3-5 Acts 8:12 1 Cor 4:20 Col 4:11 1 Thes 2:12 Rev 1:9 12:10

The new and eternal covenant:
The one fold of Christ:

The new covenant body of Christ church is an ark, the ark of Peter, the ark of Noah was a type, all those outside the ark died, and all those outside the church die spiritually, there is no life outside of Noah’s ark and there is no spiritual life or salvation outside of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)


Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Ez 36:25 I (God) shall sprinkle you with pure water, and you shall be white as snow!




Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23

Confirmation
Mt 17:27 Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises or an oath of sacramental life of grace!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Initiation into the new covenant must be ministered to you by the apostles!

There CANNOT be both!

Either Apostolic tradition in hierarchical authority which establishes truth, peace and order!

Or

Spiritual anarchy producing chaos and disorder!

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Men show is the way of salvation?

 

[theefaith]

Funny, that's what I have been wanting to ask you. Do YOU have a testimony of having met and received Christ as your Saviour? Please do share it, I would love to hear how He revealed the gospel to you and changed your life.

My testimony is that I put on Christ gal 3:27 in the Christian sacrament of baptism when I was 16! 16 days old that is, raised Catholic and confirmation in 8 grade!

No you’re not saved!
You must endure to the end and die in the grace of God to be saved!

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!

 

[theefaith]

Sorry, but this is very deceptive theefaith. It places the church on an equal footing as Christ Jesus Himself......this is why the Catholic church is the god and idol of many captive souls. You need the Holy Spirit to reveal the scriptures to you as God intended because only the Spirit of God knows the mind of God. Not the carnal mind of man, for the carnal mind is indeed ENMITY AGAINST GOD as Catholic theology and its fruits unfortunately demonstrates.

acts 9:4 Saul was persecuting the church! Christ said: why persecute ME! Christ and His church are one!

eph 5:32 mystery of Christ and his church

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture; God sent an apostle to teach and to baptize

how did the eunuch even know about baptism?

 

[theefaith]

If all men were redeemed then all men are saved.
A man is redeemed when a man is forgiven. Not all men are forgiven.

"7...redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" Ephesians 1:7

"14...redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Colossians 1:14​

No man is redeemed until his sins are forgiven.
You are in a cult.

Christ accomplished the redemption of mankind it has to be applied to our souls in justification (faith and baptism) then sanctification then when we die in the grace of God salvation

 

[farouk]

Sorry, but this is very deceptive theefaith. It places the church on an equal footing as Christ Jesus Himself......this is why the Catholic church is the god and idol of many captive souls. You need the Holy Spirit to reveal the scriptures to you as God intended because only the Spirit of God knows the mind of God. Not the carnal mind of man, for the carnal mind is indeed ENMITY AGAINST GOD as Catholic theology and its fruits unfortunately demonstrates.

@Lizbeth Being born again indeed means being born spiritually from above; and is not a hierarchical act of ecclesiastical organizations.

 

[Jim B]

<snip>

The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32

<snip>

You finally said something right! Congratulations!

The church and Jesus are one! The church is the body of Christ!

Now of course this doesn't mean the Catholic denomination, which is not synonymous with "the church".

 

[Lizbeth]

acts 9:4 Saul was persecuting the church! Christ said: why persecute ME! Christ and His church are one!

eph 5:32 mystery of Christ and his church

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture; God sent an apostle to teach and to baptize

how did the eunuch even know about baptism?

I can't keep up with everything...not able to address or even read every point you make. Just want to say here that the true church is not a visible tangible organization or institution, or buildings, it is in spirit. Jesus said, "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them".....that is church....so simple...the simplicity of Christ....no need for worldly ways of doing church. Most of the time people are saved through the hearing of the gospel, through human agents, but really God doesn't "need" the church to save souls and doesn't even always use people, He just usually chooses to....there are many testimonies of folks being saved sovereignly by the Lord without human agents.

Any believer can baptize really...Paul an apostle said he wasn't called to baptize and preferred others to do that job.

Ordinarily believers can be taught by others with those spiritual gifts in the church but also there are times when the following is true:

1Jo 2:26-27

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And here's a little word to address just one of your sacraments...confession. What did the apostles under the anointing write about confession?

Jas 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1Jo 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You know the scripture that says if we walk in the light we have fellowship with one another? Yes, so part of walking in the light is confessing our faults/sins to one another, as part of being in fellowship with one another, just in simplicity, talking to Christian friends, unburdening oneself to trusted friends in the Lord and praying for one another. Or confessing and repenting to God directly as in the 1 John 1:9 verse...walking in the light with God. There's no need to confess our sins to special people with special titles dressed in special clothes, in a special building using a special formula and at special times. I really love the simplicity of Christ, He makes everything so easy....His yoke is easy and His burden is light. You know He is really only in that simplicity....otherwise it is man building the church not the Lord, and they labour in vain.

 

[Lizbeth]

Christ accomplished the redemption of mankind it has to be applied to our souls in justification (faith and baptism) then sanctification then when we die in the grace of God salvation

Scripture says we're redeemed OUT OF the nations, and FROM the world. So the unbelieving nations and world are not redeemed. Redemption is through faith in Jesus. Redemption in the bible is only ever applied to "His people", His chosen.

Someone who has no testimony of Jesus can't be a witness for Him. It's really tragic the way Catholicism gets people to put their faith in sacraments and ritual, and in the priests and popes who conduct them, instead of in Jesus. And how it tries to convert lost souls to the Church instead of to Jesus. "No man cometh to the Father but by me" and "If ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either."

Even Cornelius, a Roman soldier, who was a good man and feared God and gave to the poor.....still had to be saved and begotten through the gospel, when the Lord sent Peter to him to preach it. Now he was right in doing good and fearing God and would reap blessing for this life, just as the Jews would reap blessing in this life for doing good and obeying God's laws......but that couldn't save them and give them eternal life after this short little life is over. They still needed Jesus and the gospel and of course Jesus even came to them first to offer them salvation through Him. Through FAITH IN HIM, not faith in sacraments/rituals or church/temple.

The bible says this: All our righteousness is as filthy rags. And that the Jews sought salvation not by faith but by seeking to establish their own righteousness (in performing rituals) rather than submitting to the righteousness of Christ.

I pray you will turn from having faith in things that can't save and place your faith in Jesus Christ. It's a faith not of ourselves, but must be given by Him, but we can seek Him for it. Ask, seek and knock and the door will be opened to you.

 

[theefaith]

@Lizbeth Being born again indeed means being born spiritually from above; and is not a hierarchical act of ecclesiastical organizations.

You cannot enter the kingdom on you’re own, it must be ministered into you by baptism

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[theefaith]

You finally said something right! Congratulations!

The church and Jesus are one! The church is the body of Christ!

Now of course this doesn't mean the Catholic denomination, which is not synonymous with "the church".

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20


1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Christ is king and has all authority and dominion!

Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!

Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!

Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!

But Protestant fundamentalists will not, for satan the first Protestant was in rebellion against God saying: I will not serve! I will not obey!

So who is you’re leader?

All those who submit and obey are Christ’s!

Those who do not are satan’s!

 

[Lizbeth]

acts 9:4 Saul was persecuting the church! Christ said: why persecute ME! Christ and His church are one!

eph 5:32 mystery of Christ and his church

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture; God sent an apostle to teach and to baptize

how did the eunuch even know about baptism?

Christ and His church are one, yes, but to start with the Catholic church is not His church. Neither is the Episcopalian church or the Anglican church or any church, but those who believe and know the Lord and have His spirit are the church. Not walls or organizations or buildings, but the body of Christ is composed of those who are in Him and He is in them. (and Paul wrote in Romans 8 that is any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of His.)

Also VERY important to keep in mind that a servant is not greater than his Master. Jesus was one with the Father and did not consider Himself equal to the Father....on the contrary HE SAID THE FATHER WAS GREATER THAN HIM. Jesus is our LORD AND MASTER (as well as Saviour, friend and bridegroom). He did not consider equality with God something to be grasped so NEITHER SHOULD WE OR ANY MAN.

 

[Lizbeth]

Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!

Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!

Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!

Jesus has appointed and given many spiritual gifts, starting with the greater gifts of apostles, evangelists, pastors, teachers etc. We are to acknowledge and be subject to the leadership of those with the leadership gifts, yes. In simplicity...not with officiousness like in a corporation or business. More like in a family the younger ones simply recognize the authority of and obey the parents and older siblings as well. If anyone in the church receive crowns and titles they are in error. And people giving them titles and crowns are in error. That is not the example Jesus and the apostles set. And keep in mind that believers are also told to submit one to another. And who would be greatest must be servant of all. It is not the way of the world and flesh in the body of Christ.

If we have the spirit of Christ, He reveals to us that Joseph was a type and shadow of Jesus Himself....so yes bowing to Him would be appropriate. Even the angels in Revelation refused to accept the worship of John when he tried to bow to them...and told him to worship God alone.

 

[theefaith]

I can't keep up with everything...not able to address or even read every point you make. Just want to say here that the true church is not a visible tangible organization or institution, or buildings, it is in spirit. Jesus said, "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them".....that is church....so simple...the simplicity of Christ....no need for worldly ways of doing church. Most of the time people are saved through the hearing of the gospel, through human agents, but really God doesn't "need" the church to save souls and doesn't even always use people, He just usually chooses to....there are many testimonies of folks being saved sovereignly by the Lord without human agents.

Any believer can baptize really...Paul an apostle said he wasn't called to baptize and preferred others to do that job.

Ordinarily believers can be taught by others with those spiritual gifts in the church but also there are times when the following is true:

1Jo 2:26-27

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And here's a little word to address just one of your sacraments...confession. What did the apostles under the anointing write about confession?

Jas 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1Jo 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You know the scripture that says if we walk in the light we have fellowship with one another? Yes, so part of walking in the light is confessing our faults/sins to one another, as part of being in fellowship with one another, just in simplicity, talking to Christian friends, unburdening oneself to trusted friends in the Lord and praying for one another. Or confessing and repenting to God directly as in the 1 John 1:9 verse...walking in the light with God. There's no need to confess our sins to special people with special titles dressed in special clothes, in a special building using a special formula and at special times. I really love the simplicity of Christ, He makes everything so easy....His yoke is easy and His burden is light. You know He is really only in that simplicity....otherwise it is man building the church not the Lord, and they labour in vain.

Both and!

spiritual & temporal!
Visible & invisible!
And supernatural!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

what is this city?