What Does it Mean…..?

[Hiddenthings]

@Truly

Ezekiel 37:15-17

15 The word of the Lord came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.”

Another unfulfilled prophecy.

 

[Muna]

Yes but not unified and they rejected it - unfinished business!

But your not indicating that there is another newer covenant that is superior to the New covenant with Christ.

That was why I asked

 

[Muna]

@Truly

Ezekiel 37:15-17

15 The word of the Lord came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.”

Another unfulfilled prophecy.

I am just speaking of Hebrews

 

[Hiddenthings]

I am just speaking of Hebrews

Hebrews 8:8

But God found fault with the people: The issue doesn’t lie in the original covenant itself, which was always meant to be temporary, but rather with the people’s failure to uphold it. This is similar to what Paul discusses in Romans 7:7-12, where he defends the law while highlighting the inability of the people to live by it.

Hebrews 8:8b begins the quotation from Jeremiah 31:31-34, which continues through to v. 12.

“The time is coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”:

This phrase introduces a messianic prophecy, signaling a future time when God will establish a new covenant with His people. The prophet Jeremiah delivers this message during a time of great turmoil and disappointment; Judah and Jerusalem have been defeated by the Babylonians and the people are in exile. This disaster comes as a judgment for their disobedience.

They will suffer futher defeat before Hebrews 8-12 is fulfilled.

 

[Muna]

Hebrews 8:8

But God found fault with the people: The issue doesn’t lie in the original covenant itself, which was always meant to be temporary, but rather with the people’s failure to uphold it. This is similar to what Paul discusses in Romans 7:7-12, where he defends the law while highlighting the inability of the people to live by it.

Hebrews 8:8b begins the quotation from Jeremiah 31:31-34, which continues through to v. 12.

“The time is coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”:

This phrase introduces a messianic prophecy, signaling a future time when God will establish a new covenant with His people. The prophet Jeremiah delivers this message during a time of great turmoil and disappointment; Judah and Jerusalem have been defeated by the Babylonians and the people are in exile. This disaster comes as a judgment for their disobedience.

They will suffer futher defeat before Hebrews 8-12 is fulfilled.

Why would Hebrews quote that there? I mean, when Peter quotes Joel 2:28 in Acts 2:16, would that be something you see as being for them then present or for future in Acts?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hebrews 8:13

@dak

By calling this covenant "new," He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear: The same God who established the old covenant, as a precursor to the new, has now brought the new covenant into fulfillment. The new covenant is so vastly superior to the old that the old one must be set aside. The purpose of the old covenant has been completed, and it is now ready to fade away.

• Made: This is God’s declaration, He has officially rendered the first covenant obsolete, even as early as Jeremiah’s time.
• First: This term is used throughout the argument to emphasize that the old covenant is no longer in use or relevant (Hebrews 9:1, 15, 18; 10:9).
• Obsolete and aging: The old covenant, represented by the Law, is now outdated, set aside, and will soon be completely abolished. This refers to the coming destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. Prophecies in Daniel 8:9-12, 24; 9:26 and Isaiah 50:9 also speak of this.
• Soon: This suggests the letter of Hebrews was written just before the impending fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. If Hebrews had been written after the destruction, the writer would likely have referenced it as confirmation of his argument. This also aligns with Mark 13:2, where Jesus prophesied the fall of Jerusalem.

In short, the old covenant has fulfilled its purpose and is on the verge of being completely replaced by the new, with the impending destruction of Jerusalem marking its final phase.

I'm sure @Truly you understand the timing of these words and their future fulfillment?

 

[Muna]

Thanks, I will sit with it.

 

[Muna]

@Truly

Ezekiel 37:15-17

15 The word of the Lord came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.”

Another unfulfilled prophecy.

Hiddenthings, Google "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu publicly declared that Ezekiel 37 had been fulfilled during his tenure, highlighting the significance of Israel's rebirth"

What might be the difference between what you would be looking for as far as the fulfillment of that and what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declares as fulfilled already.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hiddenthings, Google "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu publicly declared that Ezekiel 37 had been fulfilled during his tenure, highlighting the significance of Israel's rebirth"

What might be the difference between what you would be looking for as far as the fulfillment of that and what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declares as fulfilled already.

Great question!

Here is the answer...

Ezekiel 37:12-14: “Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.’”

Ezekiel 38:18-23: “This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD. In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel... I will bring judgment upon him and his troops, and the nations with him... Then they will know that I am the LORD.”

Truly, they will need to appear "dead" before they are raised and before they will ever "know" their savour!

A time of peace is coming...then sudden distruction

 

[Hiddenthings]

...After this Jeremiah 31 Ezekiel 37 etc...

 

[Muna]

Great question!

Here is the answer...

Ezekiel 37:12-14: “Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.’”

Ezekiel 38:18-23: “This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD. In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel... I will bring judgment upon him and his troops, and the nations with him... Then they will know that I am the LORD.”

Truly, they will need to appear "dead" before they are raised and before they will ever "know" their savour!

A time of peace is coming...then sudden distruction

In otherwords Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu does not really know what he is talking about

Thanks, I am trying to get the reasons between the different interpretations and how all of them are justified.

 

[Hiddenthings]

In otherwords Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu does not really know what he is talking about

Thanks, I am trying to get the reasons between the different interpretations and how all of them are justified.

Benjamin is trusting in the strength of his own might Truly...and the military might of its partners

"As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched-out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched-out arm, and with fury poured out." (Ezekiel 20:33-34)

Gods plan is to get Israel away from its Neighbours and deal with her one on one!

"Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt." (Hosea 2:14-15)

"Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you." (Jeremiah 30:10-11)

God has unfinished business with Israel first then the nations!

A lot of suffering yet to come unfortunately.

There are people in this forum who have no idea of what's coming! Nor are the prepared to be useful for their Master when he comes.

 

[quietthinker]

Because without Scripture it is personal opinion…..and what is that worth?

How many opinions = truth? It is belief without substance.

You have plenty of personal opinions if I go by your lengthy posts but how many of them = truth?
Scripture referenced does not necessarily equate to truth. We can see that in the temptations Jesus endured in his 40 days in the desert.

I guess you are familiar with the story of 'The Emperors New Clothes'? Is it factual or is it fictional in your opinion?
My guess is that you would answer it is fictional.....and I would agree but if I asked you, is the story true, what would your opinion be?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You have plenty of personal opinions if I go by your lengthy posts but how many of them = truth?
Scripture referenced does not necessarily equate to truth. We can see that in the temptations Jesus endured in his 40 days in the desert.

Scripture reference is necessary because unless you can back up what you say...personal opinion is worth nothing....”heavy cloud but no rain”.

The temptations that Jesus endured showed that he relied on God’s word to support his retorts....so what if the devil could quote Scripture....he gave it a meaning that was never intended. Lots of people do that here, so context is everything. An isolated verse does not constitute doctrine...there must be many verses that teach the same truth....never just one.

I guess you are familiar with the story of 'The Emperors New Clothes'? Is it factual or is it fictional in your opinion?
My guess is that you would answer it is fictional.....and I would agree but if I asked you, is the story true, what would your opinion be?

As usual, we have the riddles....what the heck are you talking about???

 

[quietthinker]

As usual, we have the riddles....what the heck are you talking about???

hmmmm, do you not understand the question or are you unfamiliar with the story of The Emperors New Clothes? It is hardly a riddle!
You can find it online.

An AI summary:
The story centers around a vain emperor who is obsessed with clothes and spends all his money on them. Two conmen arrive in the city and offer to weave him a magnificent suit of clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or unfit for their jobs. The emperor, eager to identify the incompetent, hires them. The conmen pretend to work on the looms, using invisible thread and fabric. They have the emperor's ministers inspect their progress, and each minister, afraid of appearing foolish, lies about seeing the beautiful clothes. The emperor himself eventually visits and, despite seeing nothing, also pretends to admire the "invisible" suit. During a public procession, the emperor parades through the streets in his "invisible" clothes, with the citizens also pretending to admire them. Finally, a child shouts out that the emperor is naked, and the truth is revealed. The people, initially shocked, eventually admit that the child is right, and the emperor is exposed.


Themes:

• Vanity and Deception:
  The emperor's vanity makes him susceptible to the conmen's deception. The story highlights how vanity can blind people to reality and make them vulnerable to manipulation.
• Fear of Appearing Foolish:
  The ministers' and the citizens' lies demonstrate the fear of appearing unintelligent or incompetent. They prioritize social acceptance over truth, leading to a collective pretense.
  
  
• The Power of Truth:
  The child's innocent declaration breaks the spell of deception, demonstrating the power of honesty and the impact of speaking truth to power.
  
  
• Social Pressure:
  The story illustrates how social pressure can lead to conformity and the suppression of individual opinions, even when those opinions are correct.

Moral:
The primary moral of "The Emperor's New Clothes" is that honesty and speaking the truth are essential, even when it is difficult or unpopular. The story also serves as a reminder to be wary of flattery and to think critically about situations rather than blindly following the crowd.

 

[Aunty Jane]

hmmmm, do you not understand the question or are you unfamiliar with the story of The Emperors New Clothes? It is hardly a riddle!
You can find it online.

An AI summary:
The story centers around a vain emperor who is obsessed with clothes and spends all his money on them. Two conmen arrive in the city and offer to weave him a magnificent suit of clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or unfit for their jobs. The emperor, eager to identify the incompetent, hires them. The conmen pretend to work on the looms, using invisible thread and fabric. They have the emperor's ministers inspect their progress, and each minister, afraid of appearing foolish, lies about seeing the beautiful clothes. The emperor himself eventually visits and, despite seeing nothing, also pretends to admire the "invisible" suit. During a public procession, the emperor parades through the streets in his "invisible" clothes, with the citizens also pretending to admire them. Finally, a child shouts out that the emperor is naked, and the truth is revealed. The people, initially shocked, eventually admit that the child is right, and the emperor is exposed.


Themes:

• Vanity and Deception:
  The emperor's vanity makes him susceptible to the conmen's deception. The story highlights how vanity can blind people to reality and make them vulnerable to manipulation.
• Fear of Appearing Foolish:
  The ministers' and the citizens' lies demonstrate the fear of appearing unintelligent or incompetent. They prioritize social acceptance over truth, leading to a collective pretense.
  
  
• The Power of Truth:
  The child's innocent declaration breaks the spell of deception, demonstrating the power of honesty and the impact of speaking truth to power.
  
  
• Social Pressure:
  The story illustrates how social pressure can lead to conformity and the suppression of individual opinions, even when those opinions are correct.

Moral:
The primary moral of "The Emperor's New Clothes" is that honesty and speaking the truth are essential, even when it is difficult or unpopular. The story also serves as a reminder to be wary of flattery and to think critically about situations rather than blindly following the crowd.

Here we go again.....I am very familiar with the the story.....but I haven’t got a clue as to your application....
You don’t read what is written......just what you assume that I didn’t understand.

You then proceeded to elaborate on the wrong aspect of the whole story by not comprehending what I asked you....no one gets your riddles, but you....can you please not assume that people can read your mind?

Speak in plain English and we might get somewhere.....the blanks have to be filled in with imagination and I am not keen to respond to you at all if you cannot make yourself clearly understood.

 

[quietthinker]

I will leave you to your chosen ignorance AJ.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Scripture reference is necessary because unless you can back up what you say...personal opinion is worth nothing....”heavy cloud but no rain”.

The temptations that Jesus endured showed that he relied on God’s word to support his retorts....so what if the devil could quote Scripture....he gave it a meaning that was never intended. Lots of people do that here, so context is everything. An isolated verse does not constitute doctrine...there must be many verses that teach the same truth....never just one.

As usual, we have the riddles....what the heck are you talking about???

It’s not factually true, but it contains truth....question is what truth is quiet inferring?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I will leave you to your chosen ignorance AJ.

I didn’t choose to misunderstand your frequent use of riddles.....you choose not to speak in plain terms, assuming that we are all mind readers.....not many here are on your wavelength, mate. Speak plainly and there is no room for misunderstanding.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane, one advantage of @quietthinker's position is that he may not be part of an organization where questioning the established doctrine risks being disfellowshipped. In many cases, the fear of being seen as unfaithful discourages individuals from challenging or stepping outside the boundaries set by leadership.

It’s not unlike the many teachings I’ve pointed out to you, some of which you know you don’t have clear answers for. But instead of exploring them personally, you choose to conform to the group’s position. Essentially, it seems like you’re hesitant to ask the hard questions because you’re afraid of where those questions might lead.