What Does it Mean…..?

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Hiddenthings

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@Aunty Jane, the flip side of the story is that @quietthinker could also fall into the trap of the emperor’s pride, being more focused on the appearance of having truth, especially under the guise of spirituality, than on actual reality. What may seem like insight or spiritual depth could, in the end, prove to be just as false.

The Word of God will ultimately be the judge, and what a truly monumental day that will be.
 

Aunty Jane

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Ezekiel 37:15-17

15 The word of the Lord came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.”

Another unfulfilled prophecy.
All these supposedly unfulfilled prophesies are ancient history, but written in advance of their fulfilment.

The Babylonian captivity ended in 537 BCE and thereafter, individuals from both kingdoms came from their scattered destinations to Jerusalem to help to restore true worship in their homeland.
The Israelites were gathered from “among the nations” into which they had moved.

1 Chron 9:2-3....
“The first inhabitants to return to their possession in their cities were some Israelites, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. 3 And some of the descendants of Judah, of Benjamin, of Eʹphra·im, and of Ma·nasʹseh settled in Jerusalem”.

Ezra 6:17...
“And they presented for the inauguration of this house of God 100 bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel 12 male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel.”

So some members of the ten tribe kingdom, united with some of the two tribe kingdom of Judah.
A “remnant” of Israel was always in prophesy....never the whole nation.....as they were never obedient to their God. (Isa 10:21-22)

Some 200 years before, Isaiah had prophesied what would happen to Israel and Judah after their captivity. (Isa 11: 11, 13, 16)
 

Hiddenthings

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All these supposedly unfulfilled prophesies are ancient history, but written in advance of their fulfilment.

The Babylonian captivity ended in 537 BCE and thereafter, individuals from both kingdoms came from their scattered destinations to Jerusalem to help to restore true worship in their homeland.
The Israelites were gathered from “among the nations” into which they had moved.

1 Chron 9:2-3....
“The first inhabitants to return to their possession in their cities were some Israelites, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. 3 And some of the descendants of Judah, of Benjamin, of Eʹphra·im, and of Ma·nasʹseh settled in Jerusalem”.

Ezra 6:17...
“And they presented for the inauguration of this house of God 100 bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel 12 male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel.”

So some members of the ten tribe kingdom, united with some of the two tribe kingdom of Judah.
A “remnant” of Israel was always in prophesy....never the whole nation.....as they were never obedient to their God. (Isa 10:21-22)

Some 200 years before, Isaiah had prophesied what would happen to Israel and Judah after their captivity. (Isa 11: 11, 13, 16)
Israel has never been united as one House Jane.

You might want to water down the Words of God, but He doesn't!

Ezek 37:16–22: It's important to remember Jane that the political division between Israel and Judah had been final and complete for about 150 years by the time of Ezekiel. This split occurred when Shalmaneser V conquered Samaria and exiled the northern tribes. From that point on, Israel (as distinct from Judah) ceased to exist as an identifiable entity. Therefore, in relation to the Last Days, the uniting of the two sticks must signify something more than just a literal reunification of the northern and southern kingdoms. Several interpretations are possible:
  1. A unified Jewish community — with the scattered Jews (the Diaspora) fully joining those who have returned to the land (the Yishuv). Hosea 1:11 supports this view.
  2. The union of faithful Jews with the saints in Christ — where Jews who turn to God in a time of crisis are spiritually united with those already in Christ (John 10:16).
  3. Israel’s union with Christ — especially given the reference to Joseph, who serves as a powerful foreshadowing of Christ himself.
  4. A territorial expansion of modern Israel — encompassing all the land once held by the ancient united kingdom.
God has unfinished business with His People.
 

Aunty Jane

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Israel has never been united as one House Jane.
They were originally. After King Solomon died in 997 B.C.E., the long-married nation of Israel was split up into two sections. The two tribes of Judah and Benjamin stayed together under the kingdom of Judah, the other ten tribes under the kingdom of Israel.
The latter’s first king was Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim. Under this Jeroboam I the kingdom of Israel broke its marriage contract with Jehovah; it boycotted His worship at Jerusalem and set up its own national worship with idolatrous images, two golden calves, one at Dan and the other at Bethel. Thus, like the prophet Hosea’s wife Gomer, the ten-tribe kingdom of Israel turned adulterous.

A remnant of the two divided kingdoms came together to reestablish true worship in the land, and to rebuild their Temple, but the land was never given back to them......the land of Israel has been under foreign domination right up to this “time of the end”. And today God’s People are not literal Israel, because if this was God’s work in restablishing his people in their own land, then Israel would not need the support of nations whose worship they despise. If God fights for his people there is no defeat, nor is it necessary to solicit the support of foreign nations...”if God is for us who can be against us” rings hollow in today’s Israel.
You might want to water down the Words of God, but He doesn't!
I could say the same to you....Israel caused God more angst than their enemies did. He used them for one purpose only...and that was to honour Abraham by giving his descendants the privilege of producing the Messiah. Tell me what they did in all their history but to cause God to wish he had exterminated them?

Moses had an opportunity, not of his own making, to have God himself start a new typical theocratic nation with Moses as the patriarchal head to replace the faithless nation of Israel that had broken their Law covenant with God and had turned to licentious calf-worship.

This provoked Jehovah to say to Moses: “So now let me be, that my anger may blaze against them and I may exterminatethem, and let me make you into a great nation.”
But Moses did not have in mind the exalting of himself; he had larger considerations. For Jehovah to destroy there in the wilderness the people whom he had gloriously delivered from Egypt, would bring reproach upon His name. It would give Egyptians and other pagans the opportunity to jeer at Jehovah’s name or to impute wrong, malicious motives to him. Moses remembered Jehovah’s covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as it affected their offspring, the nation of Israel. Instead of hungrily grasping at the opportunity to have himself glorified in a new organization of Jehovah, he pleaded with Jehovah to feel sorry for his wayward people and to forgive them for the sake of his own name.
Ezek 37:16–22: It's important to remember Jane that the political division between Israel and Judah had been final and complete for about 150 years by the time of Ezekiel. This split occurred when Shalmaneser V conquered Samaria and exiled the northern tribes. From that point on, Israel (as distinct from Judah) ceased to exist as an identifiable entity. Therefore, in relation to the Last Days, the uniting of the two sticks must signify something more than just a literal reunification of the northern and southern kingdoms.
You are totally misinterpreting Scripture...but no one can get through to you.....that is your choice.
God has unfinished business with His People.
He finished his business with natural Israel when they murdered their own Messiah.....he chose a new “Israel” as you have been shown so many times, without acknowledgment from you....”The Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians who were chosen as the bride of Christ.....the ones through whom administration of his kingdom in heaven was to come. You have been blinded to this truth, but again you can believe whatever you wish.

Natural Israel was handed over to the blood thirsty nations, as we can see by the bloodshed that they have no place with Christ or his kingdom. (Isa 1:15) God is not with them, as is very evident.
 

Aunty Jane

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Right there is where you had no answer. Just let that rest on your for a while before I reply further.
You really have an over inflated opinion of what you believe....no matter what you are shown, you stick with a story that has already been debunked, several times. You have it as wrong as you believe I do...and your insulting comments are not getting you anywhere...give it up.

No further reply will be necessary....thanks anyway.
 

Hiddenthings

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They were originally. After King Solomon died in 997 B.C.E., the long-married nation of Israel was split up into two sections. The two tribes of Judah and Benjamin stayed together under the kingdom of Judah, the other ten tribes under the kingdom of Israel.
True
The latter’s first king was Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim. Under this Jeroboam I the kingdom of Israel broke its marriage contract with Jehovah; it boycotted His worship at Jerusalem and set up its own national worship with idolatrous images, two golden calves, one at Dan and the other at Bethel. Thus, like the prophet Hosea’s wife Gomer, the ten-tribe kingdom of Israel turned adulterous.
So you have shown you know the history, good.
A remnant of the two divided kingdoms came together to reestablish true worship in the land, and to rebuild their Temple, but the land was never given back to them......the land of Israel has been under foreign domination right up to this “time of the end”. And today God’s People are not literal Israel, because if this was God’s work in restablishing his people in their own land, then Israel would not need the support of nations whose worship they despise.
Okay let me stop you here.

God has not regathered His People or dealt with their transgressions these past 2000 years.

Jeremiah 31:10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands far away; say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.’”

So you are correct Israel is scattered among foreign nations and you are correct God will deal with those nations who cursed His People. He has not forgotten His Promises as men do, Jane.

Israel is partially gathered to the land but Israel has NOT taken possession of the Land via the New Covenant - only then can this prophecy come to pass.

Amos 9:14–15 – “They shall never again be uprooted from the land I have given them.

In the History of Israel to this day these words of your God have not been fulfilled.

If God fights for his people there is no defeat, nor is it necessary to solicit the support of foreign nations...”if God is for us who can be against us” rings hollow in today’s Israel.

And when He does not fight for them what happens?

I could say the same to you....Israel caused God more angst than their enemies did. He used them for one purpose only...and that was to honour Abraham by giving his descendants the privilege of producing the Messiah. Tell me what they did in all their history but to cause God to wish he had exterminated them?

Over the many months we have communicated I've come to sense a hardness in you Jane - almost as though you wish to stand in place of God as judge and jury.

Jeremiah 31:3 “I have loved you (Israel) with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you.”

Jane, do you think God speaks these words lightly? That He would go back on His promise, when He says, “Though you have rejected Me and killed My Son, I will still complete the work I began in you”?

Today they do not know His everlasting love but they will!

Moses had an opportunity, not of his own making, to have God himself start a new typical theocratic nation with Moses as the patriarchal head to replace the faithless nation of Israel that had broken their Law covenant with God and had turned to licentious calf-worship.

God has been longsufferring with them as much as He has you & I.

This provoked Jehovah to say to Moses: “So now let me be, that my anger may blaze against them and I may exterminatethem, and let me make you into a great nation.”
But Moses did not have in mind the exalting of himself; he had larger considerations. For Jehovah to destroy there in the wilderness the people whom he had gloriously delivered from Egypt, would bring reproach upon His name.

True.

It would give Egyptians and other pagans the opportunity to jeer at Jehovah’s name or to impute wrong, malicious motives to him. Moses remembered Jehovah’s covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as it affected their offspring, the nation of Israel. Instead of hungrily grasping at the opportunity to have himself glorified in a new organization of Jehovah, he pleaded with Jehovah to feel sorry for his wayward people and to forgive them for the sake of his own name.
Correct.
He finished his business with natural Israel when they murdered their own Messiah.....he chose a new “Israel” as you have been shown so many times, without acknowledgment from you....”The Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians who were chosen as the bride of Christ.....the ones through whom administration of his kingdom in heaven was to come. You have been blinded to this truth, but again you can believe whatever you wish.

Correct - so what must happen and how will it happen Jane?

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (ESV) 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Behonest with yourself and ask have these words of His been fulfilled? Can this be said of Israel today? NO! But what does the future hold for them and how will He bring these things to pass?

Are you the older brother who is reluctant to go in the house and celebrate with his Father and brothers return?

Do you believe God cannot forgive them their sins?

Natural Israel was handed over to the blood thirsty nations, as we can see by the bloodshed that they have no place with Christ or his kingdom. (Isa 1:15) God is not with them, as is very evident.
You quote verse 15 and ignore verse 18?

How can you do that? Only dwell of the negative and not see the postive?

Who did this to you that you cannot see the God of verse18?

Isaiah 1:18 (ESV): “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.”

Isaiah 1:19 “If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;”

I'm giving a talk soon on the principle of "comfort coming through the commandment". We can have joy and comfort through doing His Will and this is a lesson Israel will one day learn - in fact, the whole earth will learn it.
 
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ProDeo

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Why do Christians need to be “born again”? What does it result in?

How would you answer? With Scripture of course….

Rom 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Not true for you ?
 

PS95

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You really have an over inflated opinion of what you believe....no matter what you are shown, you stick with a story that has already been debunked, several times. You have it as wrong as you believe I do...and your insulting comments are not getting you anywhere...give it up.

No further reply will be necessary....thanks anyway.
That sounds as if you described yourself perfectly, AJ.
But then, you run & hide & shun.
 

Aunty Jane

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Rom 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
That’s the process......but why does it need to take place? What does it mean to be born again? What is it for?
Not true for you ?
Am I “born again”?.....No.....but that doesn’t mean I am not a Christian. Being born again means that one is chosen to rule with Christ in heaven....I hope to be one of their blessed subjects, remaining on earth as God first purposed, and described in Rev 21:2-4.
 

ProDeo

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That’s the process......but why does it need to take place? What does it mean to be born again? What is it for?

Am I “born again”?.....No.....but that doesn’t mean I am not a Christian. Being born again means that one is chosen to rule with Christ in heaven....I hope to be one of their blessed subjects, remaining on earth as God first purposed, and described in Rev 21:2-4.

You surprise me there, born again is receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit, being able to understand the spiritual things of God, or as Paul said in Gal 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Hint.