What does it mean to be "born again"?

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Armour of God

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What you did was provide quotes and sources showing the CATHOLIC Church believed baptismal regeneration, but what you did NOT do is show proof that the one true church of the living God EVER taught or believed in baptismal regeneration.
And as I TOLD you, it is NEVER taught in Acts which is the history of THAT church. Additionally, I showed you where Peter denies your doctrine of baptismal regeneration.
Speaking of moving goal posts: that is also on you since you constantly "forget" we are talking about baptismal regeneration by dishonestly saying we are talking about "baptism". I never denied baptism. But I vehemently reject baptismal regeneration which YOU promote.

You asked me to prove that the early church believed in baptism. I did that by supplying 1 catholic source and 7 non catholic sources.

I asked you to prove that the early church didn't believe in baptism. You supplied no sources at all.

Fact - The early church believed in baptism
You have failed to prove otherwise

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PeterAndroz

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I was asked to give proof that the early church, from the 2nd to 5th Centuries AD, believed in baptism. I did that well and truly by supplying 8 sources.
Some of those 'sources' also believe in purgatory yet where does Paul (Romans to Philemon) teach that ?
Point ?
Church 'beliefs' do not replace or over-ride Scripture.
 
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NayborBear

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Okay; let's flesh that out a bit. (Pun intentional.)

If I were to argue that, I'd start with verse 5:

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being "born of water" is an obvious reference to Baptism, and there is a lot of baptizing going on here (though I disagree with the statement "the rest of the chapter is about baptism").

Question 1: What does being "born of the Spirit" mean?
Welp? I may not be able to convince or persuade anyone else?
When one is "born again of the Spirit?"
The one who has been "born again, or born from above, or born again of the Spirit?"
KNOWS IT!......FOR A FACT!!.......THAT "THIS" HAS OCCURRED!
Because what USUALLY follows is like a (how can I say) a "season(?)" or series, which seem like "waves" of "BEING CONVICTED" by this SELFSAME SPIRIT with which "the one," or one, who HAS been "born from above" is subjected to!
Of the WHICH? Tis TRULY a very humbling experience! And? I SHOULD add, although, it really SHOULD go without saying.
An "EXPERIENCE" one does not soon, nor SHOULD EVER forget!

I could go on......But needs get ready for to go to Church today.

(finally got my internet working correctly...........again. After going through time after time with "professor google?" I went and did the LAST thing this old decrepit body WANTED to do! Which was get on the floor and behind my desk and blow the dust off every wire/cable from the wall plug to my modem/router, from the router to my computer!.........And?......YES! I DID look for other items that i had dropped whilst being "in the neighborhood!" :Laughingoutloud::jest: )

SEEMS to have "done the trick!"
So far, anyways! :gd
 

NayborBear

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What you did was provide quotes and sources showing the CATHOLIC Church believed baptismal regeneration, but what you did NOT do is show proof that the one true church of the living God EVER taught or believed in baptismal regeneration.
And as I TOLD you, it is NEVER taught in Acts which is the history of THAT church. Additionally, I showed you where Peter denies your doctrine of baptismal regeneration.
Speaking of moving goal posts: that is also on you since you constantly "forget" we are talking about baptismal regeneration by dishonestly saying we are talking about "baptism". I never denied baptism. But I vehemently reject baptismal regeneration which YOU promote.
(Reading and answering these posts is gonna make me run late!)
Welp?
Your wrong Jim! The very LEAST thing that being baptized does?
Is "plant the SEED of FAITH!" Which is as Jesus of Nazareth correctly stated: "Is like a mustard seed."
And? Being "Immersed in water?"
Is more times than not? Done and/or PROFESSED in FRONT of WITNESSES!
 
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mailmandan

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Is it possible He was referring to the "living water" He spoke of to the woman at the well?
*Water baptism is certainly not the only "water" mentioned in scripture.

John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

John 4:10 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*Jesus connects living water with fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - drink into one Spirit.

In the Old Testament, we see that God Himself is called the "fountain of living water." Jeremiah 2:13 - For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, and hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Jeremiah 17:3 - O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. "Those who depart from Me Shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, The fountain of living waters."

Isaiah 12:2 - Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For the Lord God is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.’ 3 Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
 

Armour of God

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*Water baptism is certainly not the only "water" mentioned in scripture.

John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

John 4:10 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*Jesus connects living water with fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - drink into one Spirit.

In the Old Testament, we see that God Himself is called the "fountain of living water." Jeremiah 2:13 - For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, and hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Jeremiah 17:3 - O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. "Those who depart from Me Shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, The fountain of living waters."

Isaiah 12:2 - Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For the Lord God is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.’ 3 Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

I gotta say, for the modern interpretation of born again, at least that's a much better explanation than the one people usually use which is amniotic fluid.

Still, it's connection to being born of water and spirit is not as strong as the water and spirit of baptism is, its very implicit.

The fact that the rest of John 3 is focused on baptism cannot be dismissed in my opinion. Its a clear indication that it is connected to being born again as it immediately follows the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

Baptism was already being practised by the Jews which is why Jesus said
"10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?" John 3:10
So the fact that Nicodemus should of already known these things is a sign that Christ wasn't teaching anything new but something old and already being practiced like baptism

Here are some verses that connect being born of water and spirit to baptism

Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Acts 1:5
5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 19:5-6
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1:10
10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove

These verses are explicit in the connection of water and spirit with baptism.

I understand there are different interpretations on this matter and I accept that. I certainly don't slander those with differing opinions like many others do.

But in my opinion, it's much more likely that being born again involves baptism, it's arguments are stronger, it's what the early church believed and its what most Christians today believe.

God bless
 
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Lambano

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When one is "born again of the Spirit?"
The one who has been "born again, or born from above, or born again of the Spirit?"
KNOWS IT!......FOR A FACT!!.......THAT "THIS" HAS OCCURRED!
I've heard testimonies both ways.

The classic one, of course, is getting knocked off your horse, blinded by a bright light, and hearing a voice coming from the sky saying, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the pricks." (Acts 26:14.) The Baptists in the church I attended as a teenager taught that everyone should be able to point to a time and a place where they had an experience like that. On the other hand, a couple of the most godly people I know (whose lives demonstrate they've been "born again") both said they had no "magic moment". Both testify that it was like they "just always knew".

“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8.)
 
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