Hello
@bdavidc . Let's see what you got...
Your post is not biblical for two reasons.
I'm listening.
First, its conclusion is built by forcing one Hebrew idiom to take a meaning that the rest of Scripture never gives it.
Actually, the conclusion is consistent with all other uses of the phrase 'surely die'. Using the word 'idiom' is going to lose you a bit of credibility.
The phrase “moth tamuth” only intensifies the certainty of God’s warning,
So, what you are saying is that the phrase 'surely die' is not only literal, but really REALLY literal.
...and the Bible itself tells us what death entered through Adam’s sin.
There were two deaths that happened as a result of Adam's sin:
- 1st Death: The grave
- 2nd Death: The Lake of Fire
Both happened on that very day.
Note that there is no 'Third Death' taught anywhere in Scripture.
Scripture says sin brought spiritual death and physical death into the world ~Ephesians 2:1; ~Romans 5:12.
So according to your interpretation, 'spiritual death' is the Second Death. Thus, according to what you just wrote, both physical death and the Second Death happened to Adam. You just contradicted yourself.
Death is death. There is no such thing as a 'magickal mystery unicorn fantasy death' in which nothing happens physically to a person.
Adam was immediately separated from God when he ran from His presence ~Genesis 3: 8
Yes, that is a picture of the Lake of Fire. A common interpretation is 'separation from God' which is what you are describing:
...and God told him that his body would return to dust ~Genesis 3:19.
God told that to the Second Adam that was created on the Sixth Day. So yes, that particular Adam lived for many years in the physical body that he chose and with the parents that he chose.
Did you even bother looking at the next verse?
Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
A new being was just created and had to be named. Do you not understand that the previous woman had a different name? You better go back and read Genesis 1 to 3 again. Eve is nowhere to be found before the Fall.
You need to reconcile why there were two different women with two different names. Until you do that, you are always going to teach falsely like everyone else.
The post claims that the common understanding fails because it does not line up with other judgment passages, but those verses only speak of physical execution, they do not describe the reality of Adam’s fall.
You are busted. You can't have it both ways. The meaning of 'surely die' does not change from one verse to the next because it does not line up with your false narrative and false understanding.
The reality of Adam's Fall was way more profound than you currently can grasp. It's up to you to do your homework, come up to speed, and correct yourself as I had to do. God got me for believing the lies you and others here promote. It was not fun to be chastised.
The post is an SDA style interpretation.
So we are arguing 'style' now?
The Ministry Magazine article he is quoting is a Seventh Day Adventist publication.
I couldn't care less where Truth comes from. If it's Truth, it's Truth even if it comes from Satan himself.
Prove the article wrong and then maybe you have something instead of ad-hominem.
Their doctrinal position attempts to make Genesis 2:17 mean something that fits annihilationism
The Bible does not teach 'annihilationism', nor does it teach 'infinite torments'. So far, no one here has the cognitive capacity to comprehend what I have been posting. Automatically, that makes everyone here unqualified to respond since they don't even know what they are responding to or even arguing about in the first place. It's all been knee-jerk reactions to new information. It's sad to watch, yet very predictable.
...and denies ongoing spiritual death.
Which you already defined as the Second Death. You are contradicting yourself again.
There is no 'Third Death' in the Bible.
That is why the article attacks the plain reading of Scripture.
Except it doesn't.
*You* are the one attacking the plain reading. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
But Scripture already interprets the deaths that came through Adam, and they are not limited to physical execution.
The Bible interprets Genesis 2:17 through its own testimony. It is clear that spiritual separation from God was immediate, that physical mortality entered, and that loss of fellowship with God was part of sin’s penalty. Nothing in Scripture supports the conclusions in this post.
Again, you are contradicting yourself. The Lake of Fire is separation from God. There is no mystical 'Third Death'.
You claim that 'mortality entered' without explaining exactly how that change occurred. Since you don't know, you have no authority to claim I am wrong.
I will give you a hint:
Mortality cannot 'enter' someone unless they were recreated with an entirely new body that had corruption already built into it.
And until you and everyone here understands the sentence I just wrote, there is no reason to debate further. Be courteous and take the time to understand my position as I have with you folks.
