What does the purported Higgs Bosun discovery mean to Christians?

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mcorba

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Just wondered what some of the wise folk on here understood the implications of the 'God Particle' to be to us?

In Christ, M


(PS Please avoid quoting 3-5 pages of lengthy scripture to back up your ideas! It makes many of the posts nearly ridiculously long)
 

veteran

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All science has done is simply prove God's creation and His Eternal Existence. The problem has been that view of the evidence isn't popular. The farther scientific discovery gets, more and more scientists loose their faith in the theories of evolution.
 

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THE GOD PARTICLE has nothing at all to do with metaphysics. It references nothing with regard to the Great Prime Mover, as it were. In fact, the god particle is little more than a quantum physics skeleton key and a very theoretical one at that.

Every article you read about it always suggests that the god particle, the Higgs Boson, will act as a tool or common denominator in understanding how things work at the sub-atomic level. That's all it is; a tool, a yardstick, a benchmark if you will.

Physicists have been looking for a universal ->something<- to link energy-and-matter-and-everything-else together, since before the days of Einstein. They never found it and if the reaction of the media can be properly weighted, they still haven't. The announcement of the discovery of Higgs Boson wasn't really a discovery, it was more like the statement of evidence that SUGGESTED a shadow or whisper of the god particle. Nobody is even close to the real thing, its just a really good guess with some really good science behind it (for now). As we all know, scientific theories sometimes fall to pieces just as quickly as they are formed.

What's really going on here?

Well here's my take on things. There isn't any discovery of a god particle, not even close. Then again if you read carefully you'll discern that fact for yourself. Turn the page of your newspaper to the financial section and you'll read how the European economy is STILL TEETERING on the very cusp of collapse. Everybody there is obsessing about it and its a very serious problem.

Now go back to the article about Higgs Boson and note that the particle collider is mega huge and mega expensive. Over ten billions of dollars if I read it right. The price tag is probably higher because when they first lit the thing up about a year ago something went haywire and they had to shut it down. This is now the first time they've been able to fire it up and play with it.....and presto we've got a major discovery.

Or not.

Maybe all we've got here is a bunch of scientists with a brand new and very expensive toy, who want to keep playing with it despite the fact that the rest of Europe is going down the toilet - financially speaking.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, mcorba.

The discovery of the Higgs Bosum particle has no direct consequence as to how the Scriptures should be interpreted. It's just one more discovery that MAY help us to understand the universe God created a little better. It may even be the LINK to understanding how gravitation works! All we truly know about gravitation is that it is directly related to particles that have mass. Beyond that and the principles that govern the laws of gravity and gravitation, we truly don't understand the force - what causes it or where it comes from. As we fill in the blanks about subatomic particles, we might come to a better understanding of what it is that gives a particle "mass" and why such particles exhibit gravitative attraction.
 

Mungo

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Can anyone explain why some people call the Higgs Boson the "God particle" ?
 

JohnDB

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Because it gets into some really complicated stuff and it is a possible answer to Quantum Physics.

(Why sometimes particles will act like waves and sometimes they don't)

Answers to the properties of the matter can be a way to make very efficient travel to actual transporters like used in Star Trek.
 

michaelvpardo

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Physics, like all science, is the practice of creating mathematical models to explain natural phenomena, and then the attempt to experimentally validate the models. Mathematics is a way to systematize and quantize thought. Neither discipline creates reality, but those devoted to them would like to think that they do. You start with the notion that if you can understand something, then you can control it. There is very little more pleasing to our fleshly nature than the idea of being in control (being as God.) It's a very short step from the notion of controlling realities to the notion of creating them. Sanitariums are full of people who do this to their own detriment. The fact that a man may come up with a mathematical model for universes spontaneously bubbling into existance, doesn't validate the man's hypothesis, but only proves that the imagination can be expressed in a systematized way. Many early "scientists" were actually primarily philosophers, that is, they were searching for truth, but not in scripture. Such men distrusted orthodoxy and sought to realize truth through the study of the natural world. Rebellion against authority in the name of truth is nothing new. When you abandon the notion of absolute Truth as revealed by God Himself, for the seeking of truth in the observation of a fallen creation, you start out building a world view built upon a flawed reality; one marred by sin. Modern science is concerned largely with suppressing truth rather than seeking it. The scientific community is a new orthodoxy which punishes those whose perception of reality is honest in its recognition of a creator, by expulsion from the community. Does this sound familiar? It should if you've ever been exposed to history with regard to the formally excepted orthodox churches of europe and asia minor. A form of orthodoxy is necessary in every society for the continuity of acceptible practice, or simple pragmatism. Orthodoxy however is not the equivalent of Truth.
The bottom line: The "god particle" is so named as to lend credibility to the notion that all existance is accidental and to remove God from the "equation" of life and it's purpose. If you can explain the existance of our universe as a simple physcial principle to the satisfaction of your own mind, then you can justify ignoring your conscience and that aspect of eternity that God has written upon the hearts of all men. "Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man and birds and four footed animals and creeping things," (and imaginary particles.)
Albert Einstein was an early hero of mine, but he demonstrates the tragedy of seeking to determine truth through the study of a fallen world. Mr. Einstein reached the conclusion that the orderliness of the universe demanded the existance of a god and creator, but he rejected the God of the bible in favor of one of his own imagination. Einstein was unable to reconcile the existance of good and evil with the concept of a benevolent God, and perhaps this had to do with his being a Jew in a time when the persecution of Jews had reached a horrific crescendo in the rise to power of Adolf Hitler over a Nazi vision of Germany. I won't make excuses for the man. In the end he was a fool.
The definitive proof of the existance of a "god particle" would validate the world's attempt to marginalize all faith, not just biblical faith, in much the same way that finding the body of our savior would invalidate a belief in the resurrection. However, no such body will be found because He is risen and no such particle will ever be found because it doesn't exist. (If it were found we would cease to exist, as two universes can't coexist in the same physical space any more than two particles with the same spin state can share the same subatomic orbital.) If there is a clever mathematician/physicist reading the thread that would like to prove me wrong, I'll remind him that mathematical proof is not proof of reality, but only a self-validation of thought (and imagination.)
As an example, the imaginary number (i) which is defined as the square root of -1 has use in mathematics and can be manipulated following the rules created for that purpose, yet the square of a negative number has no real existance. Some people will put their faith in the constructs of the minds of men. I however, will keep my faith in God, who created all men and gave us the power to create imaginary constructs and thereby enable us to solve practical problems in our day to day lives. Blessed be the Lord through whose grace we live and breathe, even our Savior Jesus Christ who lives and reigns forever. Amen.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Mungo.

Can anyone explain why some people call the Higgs Boson the "God particle" ?

Here's what I found about the nickname at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson:

"God particle"
The Higgs boson is often referred to as the "God particle" by individuals outside the scientific community, after the title of Leon Lederman's popular science book on particle physics, The God Particle: If the Universe Is the Answer, What Is the Question? While use of this term may have contributed to increased media interest, many scientists dislike it, since it is sensational and overstates the particle's importance. Its discovery would still leave unanswered questions about the unification of quantum chromodynamics, the electroweak interaction, and gravity, as well as the ultimate origin of the universe. Higgs, an atheist himself, is displeased that the Higgs particle is nicknamed the "God particle", because the term "might offend people who are religious".
Lederman said he gave it a nickname because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive," and added that he chose "the God particle" because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Godd*** Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing."

The appropriate name currently is the "Higgs boson," but they're having a contest to rename it in honor of Peter Higgs' 80th birthday.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Jon-Marc.

Being a simple man, I didn't un derstand what he was saying. Can anyone put it in simple words for me?

Sure, bro'. The "God particle" or the "Higgs boson" is simply another particle of matter that they have CALCULATED to exist, and they are trying to find the actual proof that such a particle truly exists. Peter Higgs THINKS he's seen evidence, but they are still trying to confirm the evidence. Remember in school we were taught about electrons, protons, and neutrons? Well, now they have discovered that the protons and neutrons are also made up of other smaller particles.

Things like muons, pions, nutrinos, and other quarks are some of the names given to these particles and classes of particles. And, through the years of using "atom smashers" they have a whole FAMILY of particles that are all interrelated. They are still looking for this one, elusive particle in the boson "family."

Peter, an atheist, was swearing at the particle and was edited by his publisher and inadvertantly gave it the nickname "the God particle" in the process. It stuck in the media; so now, they're trying to rename the crazy thing.

That's all it is: another theoretical particle that's supposed to exist.

Did that help?

P.S. - I got to thinking that maybe you were talking about Michael's post?

All Michael is saying is that scientists get too big for their britches. They think they know all that when really, compared to God, they don't know SQUAT! If scientists think they've got God's nature all worked out, then it gives them an excuse not to listen to God. Atheists NEED for God not to exist so they won't have to answer to Him, but they will anyway.
 

day

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I am by no means knowledgable in the area of quantum physics, but to my limited understanding it seems like a neat discovery. I understand it as a sub-atomic particle that is a bridge between energy and matter. I combine this with a limited understanding of string theory where energy and matter are made of of vibrating "strings" where different vibration rates make different particles.

God spoke and it was so. Speech is sending forth vibrations. Are strings the very breath of God? Is the universe his song? Thus far I have no problem with the little vibrating particle. It is just another note in the song.
 

tgwprophet

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Retobyter wrote
" The discovery of the Higgs Bosum particle has no direct consequence as to how the Scriptures should be interpreted. It's just one more discovery that MAY help us to understand the universe God created a little better. "

Here hear Retrobyter! Agreed and when the smoke of Armageddon clears the answers to these things will most likely be oh so simple too boot. Oh... on your scientist/atheist thing... I agree,
but, my son is a scientist and a Believer.


Day --- as to your string theory thingy.... I been saying the same thing for years... I AGREE
I like the way you expressed it too.
 

rand

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The reason it is all so complicated is because it is not observational science, but theoretical science based on observations that they will in no way allow to point to a creator. Take Black Holes for example. Do you know that no one has ever witnessed (observed) a black hole? Actually they are now sending up observational craft to try and prove they exist. To the tune of about 600 million dollars. They look at the way a galaxy spirals and gravity as we know it is no where near strong enough to make it act that way. So, they came up with a black hole. And the more we learned about the universe the more and more complicated a black hole became. They also noticed energy throughout a galaxy they can't explain so they call it dark energy. They can't explain why waves travel thru empty space so they came up with dark matter. However, there are other teams of scientist that have been making remarkable advances in magnetic plasma gases that account for all these and so much more. This is a science that has been studied now for just over a hundred years. They've even formed small magnetic galaxies in a lab that all form into a spiral. However, because the power of magnitism can be 10 to the 35 (+ or -) times as great as the strength of gravity (that's a 10 with 35 zeros behind it--big number), it could have stretched out the heavens in a matter of hours. Which is why this science will never pass the scientific reveiw process --because it doesn't agree.​

A true scientist will tell you that all science is, is 'best guess' The best guess all depends on prederemined views--what you already believe before interpreting the facts.​

But to all Christians out there, don't loose faith, they really don't have observational proof that they lead us to believe they have. All they have is theoretical science--or science fiction.​
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Can anyone explain why some people call the Higgs Boson the "God particle" ?

I listened to one of the physicists working on the project and he said they are looking for the particles that came before the big bang start of the universe.

They call it the "God particle" and it is their "religion" (my words)

They are looking for the moment of creation.

Yet the majority of the scientists working on the Hadron Collider are atheists.

To them "creation" was the beginning of the "evolution" process of the universe and everything in our universe , including ourselves , began in the "god particle" just before "the big bang"

He went on to say that it is the "gods" of Greek and Egyptian mythology , and the "gods" that the ancients worshiped.

Yet he is an atheist who does not believe in "God" or a "creator". Go figure.

It was a bizarre and interesting interview. If you do some research on the Hadron project you will find symbols and references to the gods of mythology.

Remember these are some of the worlds top scientists and brilliant physicists.

Makes you think doesn't it ??

I have a friend and associate who is an investigative journalist and he has put together some good documents on this whole subject (from a Christian perspective.)

Best wishes.
Arnie