What good is it to know the gospel but then treat others like garbage?

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Patrick1966

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1 Timothy 2:4-6 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for ALL which is the testimony given at the proper time.
 

Patrick1966

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The Biblical evidence is OVERWHELMING. Incredibly, many Christians simply refuse to accept that our loving Father doesn't torture souls FOREVER.

Isaiah 45: 23 By myself I have sworn from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance
 

Patrick1966

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1 John 4:7-14

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
 

Patrick1966

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Why do you, my brothers, not believe God?

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.
 

Patrick1966

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This assumes human souls are like machines, with interchangeable parts,

God is a refiner, a restorer, a fixed.

Verses that relate to refining, purification, etc:



Malachi 3:2-3 esv

But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord.



1 John 3:3 esv

And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.



Mark 9:49

For everyone will be salted with fire.



Hebrews 1:3 ESV

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,



Zechariah 13:9

And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”



1 Peter 1:7 esv

So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.



Isaiah 1:25 esv

I will turn my hand against you and will smelt away your dross as with lye and remove all your alloy.



Isaiah 48:10 esv

Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction



Psalm 66:10 esv

For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried.



Proverbs 17:3 esv

The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.



Job 23:10 esv

But he knows the way that I take; when he has tried me, I shall come out as gold.



Jeremiah 9:7 esv

Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: “Behold, I will refine them and test them, for what else can I do, because of my people?



Jeremiah 6:29 esv

The bellows blow fiercely; the lead is consumed by the fire; in vain the refining goes on, for the wicked are not removed.



Proverbs 25:4 esv

Take away the dross from the silver, and the smith has material for a vessel



Revelation 19:20 YLT

and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast -- the two -- to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone



2 Corinthians 3:18 esv

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.



Revelation 20:10 YLT

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.



Revelation 3:18 esv

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.



1 Peter 5:10 esv

And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.



Titus 2:14 esv

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.



Ezekiel 22:18-22 esv

Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are bronze and tin and iron and lead in the furnace; they are dross of silver. Therefore thus says the Lord God: Because you have all become dross, therefore, behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. As one gathers silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into a furnace, to blow the fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you. I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of my wrath, and you shall be melted in the midst of it. As silver is melted in a furnace, so you shall be melted in the midst of it, and you shall know that I am the Lord; I have poured out my wrath upon you.”

(Note: The Book of Ezekiel was written five or six hundred years before Christ appeared. Again, notice how various authors of scripture all say the same things. That is because of God!)



Psalm 12:6 esv

The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.



Revelation 14:10 esv

He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
 

Grailhunter

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2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
 

Patrick1966

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Yes, people are sent to Hell.

Yes, Hell is punitive but it's punitive for the purpose of correction. What would be the point of God throwing people into a burning pit to suffer horribly forever? That's not God; that's Satan. Hell exists, ultimately, as a method to SAVE people.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Yes, people are sent to Hell.

Yes, Hell is punitive but it's punitive for the purpose of correction. What would be the point of God throwing people into a burning pit to suffer horribly forever? That's not God; that's Satan. Hell exists, ultimately, as a method to SAVE people.
No its not punitive for the purpose of correction.

Its eternal. Created for satan and his angels.

Those who reject jesus will be there with them/
 

lforrest

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God is a refiner, a restorer, a fixed.

Verses that relate to refining, purification, etc:



Malachi 3:2-3 esv

But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord.



1 John 3:3 esv

And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.



Mark 9:49

For everyone will be salted with fire.



Hebrews 1:3 ESV

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,



Zechariah 13:9

And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”



1 Peter 1:7 esv

So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.



Isaiah 1:25 esv

I will turn my hand against you and will smelt away your dross as with lye and remove all your alloy.



Isaiah 48:10 esv

Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction



Psalm 66:10 esv

For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried.



Proverbs 17:3 esv

The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.



Job 23:10 esv

But he knows the way that I take; when he has tried me, I shall come out as gold.



Jeremiah 9:7 esv

Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: “Behold, I will refine them and test them, for what else can I do, because of my people?



Jeremiah 6:29 esv

The bellows blow fiercely; the lead is consumed by the fire; in vain the refining goes on, for the wicked are not removed.



Proverbs 25:4 esv

Take away the dross from the silver, and the smith has material for a vessel



Revelation 19:20 YLT

and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast -- the two -- to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone



2 Corinthians 3:18 esv

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.



Revelation 20:10 YLT

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.



Revelation 3:18 esv

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.



1 Peter 5:10 esv

And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.



Titus 2:14 esv

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.



Ezekiel 22:18-22 esv

Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are bronze and tin and iron and lead in the furnace; they are dross of silver. Therefore thus says the Lord God: Because you have all become dross, therefore, behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. As one gathers silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into a furnace, to blow the fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you. I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of my wrath, and you shall be melted in the midst of it. As silver is melted in a furnace, so you shall be melted in the midst of it, and you shall know that I am the Lord; I have poured out my wrath upon you.”

(Note: The Book of Ezekiel was written five or six hundred years before Christ appeared. Again, notice how various authors of scripture all say the same things. That is because of God!)



Psalm 12:6 esv

The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.



Revelation 14:10 esv

He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego know what it is like to go through the fire. Likewise the faith of everyone will be tested by firey trials. The refiners fire is for all. 1 peter 4

This is different than the fires of hell, which are not for everyone, but for most.
 
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Grailhunter

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So many new age and fantasy religions out there. And still I believe in freedom of religion....that has to underline everything. And since my ministry does not involve any stress, when I am faced with one of these religions it does not anger me. And as long as their beliefs are harmless it does not matter. But if it is harmful, in an open forum with other souls reading this, the importance become a little more pointed. What is their intent? When the beliefs being expressed can lead others to Hell then I am obliged to challenge them.

It would be a crying shame if Satan used this forum to lead people to Hell. There are people here that do not have the knowledge base to prepare them for these tactics that are being used and have been honed over time. But I do have the knowledge base to take them on, so it is my duty to do so.

There are so many denominations out there....so many beliefs....but most of these denominations will lead people to Christ and salvation. And there are very few people that are as tolerant to different denominations as I am...I worship with a lot of them. But when they attack the scriptures by changing the meaning of the words with the intent of leading people to Hell, that is a red flag. Who would want people to think that Hell ain't so bad or does not exist? Who would want people to think that you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven? Who would want people to think that Yeshua was not a God? Who would want people to think that the bad things they do was predestined by God? Who would want to attack the core of the scriptures? We cannot see Satan but you can see his footprints. He is a schemer so he is going to have a plan. All this takes a lot of effort and I have witnessed it first hand. What they do when they are all huddled together is not to try to understand the scriptures, but try to twist and confuse the scriptures with the intent to deceive.

And what would Christ say about these schemes? So this is a warning....watch what they say.....look for an intent....and how they do it. What they are suggesting, put it in motion.....what does it cause? What good does it cause? What bad does it cause?

Faith in Christ is number one....and my motto....be good and do good is good advise.....
 
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lforrest

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I think God has other concerns that conflict with his will to save everyone. And suffering in hell is the result of there being demons which torment the dead. Why keep them apart when they had worked iniquity together while the human lived? Would it not be more cruel to separate them?
 

Wrangler

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And suffering in hell is the result of there being demons which torment the dead. Why keep them apart when they had worked iniquity together while the human lived? Would it not be more cruel to separate them?
Such torment of "life" after death is more cruel than anything. No all-loving God would prevent a person to have peace even in death.

Also, let'd not forget the death is the end of life, not a kind of ongoing life.
 

Patrick1966

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Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego know what it is like to go through the fire. Likewise the faith of everyone will be tested by firey trials. The refiners fire is for all. 1 peter 4

This is different than the fires of hell, which are not for everyone, but for most.
Those who look to Christ refine themselves. Others will also be refined, but they're going to be refined the hard way in the hereafter.