What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?

[Douggg]

He is king over all of heaven and earth, according to verses like Matthew 28:18 and Ephesians 1:19-22, and that includes Israel.

How about you address what I said about Acts 2:29-36, Douggg?


Yes, and, according to Peter, He sits on David's throne. But, He does not sit on any throne literally. This is speaking spiritually of His authority. He also is said to currently sit on the Father's throne (Revelation 3:21), which is heaven itself (Isaiah 66:1) and that is because He has all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18) and sits at the right hand of the Father above every name that is named with all things under His feet (Ephesians 1:19-23).


No, Peter said in Acts 2:29-36 that Jesus was raised up to sit on David's throne by being raised up from the dead. You should listen to Peter instead of believing what you want to believe.


That will be the eternal new heavens and new earth that is free of sin and death forever. Peter said we look for new heavens and a new earth in accordance with the fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13), so why are you looking for something else instead?

David's throne is not in heaven. Sitting on David's throne is a way of saying being the king of Israel.

The Jews have yet to embrace Jesus as their King. In Matthew 23:39, Jesus said Jerusalem would not see Him again until Jerusalem, speaking of the Jews, say "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." i.e welcoming Jesus as their King.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

David's throne is not in heaven. Sitting on David's throne is a way of saying being the king of Israel.

David's throne is not on earth. I'm sure his earthly throne has disintegrated by now. You have no spiritual discernment, Douggg. The thrones that Jesus sits on are not literal thrones. He has all authority in heaven (Matthew 28:18) and sits on the Father's throne there (Revelation 3:21). Do you think that's a literal throne? It is not. The Father's throne is heaven itself (Isaiah 66:1). This is about His authority. Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He was made "Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36) and exalted to the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:34) after His resurrection and at that time He had all things placed under His feet with Him being given authority far above everything that is named (Ephesians 2:19-23). Surely, that includes Him having authority as King over Israel as well. To deny that is to deny who Jesus is and that's a very bad idea. You ignore the repeated scriptures that refer to Jesus's power and authority over all things that He has now.

The Jews have yet to embrace Jesus as their King.

Many Jews have, so this statement is false. Nowhere does it say that all Jews ever will.

In Matthew 23:39, Jesus said Jerusalem would not see Him again until Jerusalem, speaking of the Jews, say "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." i.e welcoming Jesus as their King.

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

That is what He said particularly to those who had rejected Him. Do you understand that even those who rejected Him and never accepted Him will see Him again one day and will acknowledge that He is Lord (Philippians 2:10-11)? Jesus was not saying there that He wouldn't come until the Jews as a whole put their faith in Him as you imagine. That is not at all what Jesus was saying there. He was declaring condemnation on those Jews living at that time who had rejected Him and saying they would not see Him again until they appear before Him in judgment when they (any who never repented and believed in Him) will acknowledge who He is at that time.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus was not saying there that He wouldn't come until the Jews as a whole put their faith in Him as you imagine.

Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The Jews, en masse, will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

To understand what it means for all Israel to be saved, read my original post in this this thread: All Israel will be saved!

The Jews, en masse, will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

That is a horrible misinterpretation of Revelation 12:10. You are not using scripture to interpret scripture here. When did salvation come? How can you be a Christian and not understand that salvation and the spiritual kingdom of God came when Jesus died on the cross and rose again?

Compare these verses and see how Romans 1:16 explains what Revelation 12:10 is about:

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The gospel of Christ "is the power of God" that brings salvation to those who believe. Clearly, salvation has already come by way of the gospel of Christ and His death and resurrection, so how can you not recognize that Revelation 12:10 is speaking of a current reality when it says "Now is come salvation"?

The accuser was cast down from the third heaven where He accused the brethren before God long ago and that is why Paul says in Romans 8:31-34 that no one can be against us and no one can make any charge (accusation) against us, which includes Satan.

 

[Douggg]

That is a horrible misinterpretation of Revelation 12:10. You are not using scripture to interpret scripture here. When did salvation come? How can you be a Christian and not understand that salvation and the spiritual kingdom of God came when Jesus died on the cross and rose again?

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Once the Jews turn to Jesus in Revelation 12:10, they will have the testimony of Jesus in Revelation 12:17.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Once the Jews turn to Jesus in Revelation 12:10, they will have the testimony of Jesus in Revelation 12:17.

How about addressing what I said in my post, Douggg? Is that too much to ask of you? I can't take you seriously when you repeatedly ignore my points and don't address them. I can only assume that you know you can't address what I said, so instead of acknowledging that you can't refute what I said, you just ignore it and don't address it at all.

 

[Douggg]

How about addressing what I said in my post, Douggg? Is that too much to ask of you? I can't take you seriously when you repeatedly ignore my points and don't address them. I can only assume that you know you can't address what I said, so instead of acknowledging that you can't refute what I said, you just ignore it and don't address it at all.

Revelation 12:10 is still future, as is the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days is the first half of the 7year 70th week.
Revelation 12:14, the time/times/half time is the second half of the 7year 70th week.

If you think that Revelation 12:10 is in the past at time of Jesus's death on the cross, then how to you account for the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 before then ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 12:10 is still future, as is the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days is the first half of the 7year 70th week.
Revelation 12:14, the time/times/half time is the second half of the 7year 70th week.

If you think that Revelation 12:10 is in the past at time of Jesus's death on the cross, then how to you account for the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 before then ?

If you address what I said about Revelation 12:10 in post #104, then I'll address this post. I have told you many times that I'm not interested in a one way discussion where I am the only one who addresses any points that are made or answers any questions that are asked. Do you deny that salvation came almost 2,000 years ago with the death and resurrection of Christ?

 

[Douggg]

Do you deny that salvation came almost 2,000 years ago with the death and resurrection of Christ?

The gospel of Salvation began to be preached to the nations in Luke 24:44-48, 2000 years ago.

Luke 24:
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

 

[quietthinker]

What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?​

from what I can tell, they are still there.

 

[CTK]

What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?​

from what I can tell, they are still there.

Yea, that's what I want to know! Why so quiet out there .... there are so many opinions, let's have them please...

 

[Jay Ross]

Just a little point to consider, the prophecy of the ten toes of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy, we have already seen, when they took dominion over the Land of Babylon in 2003 with the invasion of Iraq by twenty nations. Jeremiah 50-51, written around 19 years later confirms this. And Rev 16:19 prophecies that Babylon/Iraq will be remembered once more after 1926 when Britain and France divided up the Otterman Empire after WW1 and has given her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

Now since the Roman Empire is no more and since there is no "revived Roman Empire," claims/posts along this line are meaningless.

Now in around 20 years' time, Isaiah's prophecy in Isaiah 24:21-22 will be fulfilled and the "Anit-Christ" will not become a reality until he is released from the Bottomless Pit after being imprisoned for many days, i.e. for 1,000 years to await the time of his punishment along with the other judged heavenly hosts.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Yea, that's what I want to know! Why so quiet out there .... there are so many opinions, let's have them please...

The feet of iron and clay included the toes. It is the age we live in now. It is the age of strong and weak nations trying to find a formula for cohesion but just as iron and clay don't mix, ie don't become cohesive so the planet will remain fragmented.

The toes aren't necessarily ten individual nations. They are more than likely symbolic just as the iron and clay are symbolic, they represent all the nations.
It is interesting to note that the iron of the legs continue into the feet. Ideologically, this is consistent.

I must say, this vision is the base vision on which the other visions in Daniel build, though using different imagery

 

[CTK]

The feet of iron and clay included the toes. It is the age we live in now. It is the age of strong and weak nations trying to find a formula for cohesion but just as iron and clay don't mix, ie don't become cohesive so the planet will remain fragmented.

The toes aren't necessarily ten individual nations. They are more than likely symbolic just as the iron and clay are symbolic, they represent all the nations.
It is interesting to note that the iron of the legs continue into the feet. Ideologically, this is consistent.

I must say, this vision is the base vision on which the other visions in Daniel build, though using different imagery

Well, there is a lot to agree with here. If you do not mind, perhaps we might try and look at Daniel in a different way -one that is not focused on the 4 kingdoms and their historical conflicts, kings, etc., but where these 4 kingdoms are simply the structure where God will have its people travel through on their way back from their 70 year exile in Babylon.

Therefore, if we step back and look at the big picture here, God is going to reveal His plan to restore His people and His city that were either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. And while He is revealing that "plan of restoration" as His people come back through these kingdoms, He will also incorporate His plan of restoration for mankind at the same time. Let me know if you would like to go down this path... thanks.

 

[quietthinker]

Well, there is a lot to agree with here. If you do not mind, perhaps we might try and look at Daniel in a different way -one that is not focused on the 4 kingdoms and their historical conflicts, kings, etc., but where these 4 kingdoms are simply the structure where God will have its people travel through on their way back from their 70 year exile in Babylon.

Therefore, if we step back and look at the big picture here, God is going to reveal His plan to restore His people and His city that were either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. And while He is revealing that "plan of restoration" as His people come back through these kingdoms, He will also incorporate His plan of restoration for mankind at the same time. Let me know if you would like to go down this path... thanks.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[CTK]

2 Corinthians 5:18-19

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

I don't know if that is a yea or a nea.... let me know.

 

[Wish-it]

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

Clay is mentioned throughout scripture, Isaiah 64.8, Lam 4.2, Ezek 4.1-3, Jer 18.
The story of the toes is shown from Rev 13 to Rev 17, which v 13 says they have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast for one hour.

 

[CTK]

Clay is mentioned throughout scripture, Isaiah 64.8, Lam 4.2, Ezek 4.1-3, Jer 18.
The story of the toes is shown from Rev 13 to Rev 17, which v 13 says they have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast for one hour.

I agree. Let me propose something to you and get your thoughts, and we might be able to unpack chapter 2. There are indeed 4 and only 4 kingdoms that God has brought forward from the sea.

To ensure we understand this He deliberately identified them as follows:

1) in chapter 2 He identified each of the 4 with their own specific metal type,
2) in chapter 2 He also "double downe," if you will, by assigning each of the 4 kingdoms with their own body parts of a man. Thus, He broke man down into 4 separate sections - where there not only is a very clear break between each of them but He also gives us the understanding that there are no gaps, spaces, et. between any of the 4 kingdoms for us to insert another kingdom - and this must be honored all the way to His second coming. Thus, whether we discuss any later chapter in Daniel or Revelation, these are the 4 and only 4 kingdoms WITHIN His plan of restoration and salvation for His people and His city and mankind.
3) in chapter 7 He also confirms there will be 4 and only 4 kingdoms in this "structure." And to reinforce their separateness, the number of the kingfdoms and that they are consecutive, He describes them as 4 very different and separat wild animals. And of course, one can easily see it no one would attempt to combine any one of these separate animals together......

So, there we have it - the 4 and only 4 kingdoms. If you would like to comment on this before we move to the clay and the toes, I would like to read your thought....

 

[quietthinker]

I don't know if that is a yea or a nea.... let me know.

Put it this way, I don't care to be preached at however if you think you have something of value to share then please share it.

 

[CTK]

Put it this way, I don't care to be preached at however if you think you have something of value to share then please share it.

I apologize if that is how I am coming across. So, if you would like to ask a question for everyone to respond to, or offer your own set of interpretations on this topic, that would be great. And if there is an interest after identifying the 4 kingdoms and we might focus on what the clay and the 10 toes symbolize, then we might continue to learn others thoughts ...

Now, if you have something to share, I would love to hear it....