What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?

[CTK]

I prefer the KJV over other versions mainly because the KJV reveals some interesting things at times where other versions might obscure these things. Notice per the following how almost identical some of the text in both passages are.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Let's now compare some of the text in both passages like such.

and judgment was given to the saints of the most High
and judgment was given unto them

It seems to me then, the 'them' meant in the latter are meaning the saints of the most High per the former.

Yes, I agree with you.

And according to the latter this would indicate the era of time meant in the former is meaning the thousand years.

Yes, I agree with you.

But then notice that the former follows the fulfilling of Daniel 7:21. Obviously, Daniel 7:21 is not meaning prior to the cross 2000 years ago.

Yes, I agree with you.

The reason I mention this is because Amils place the beginning of the thousand years 2000 years ago.

To be very candid, I do not even consider terms such as Amil, Premil, etc., and all of the other labels people give or assign to others. Even among those individual groups there are many different undertandings. How many denonimations are there? So, without sounding like a jerk, I stay completely away from those discussions.

Keeping in mind that the era of time meant in Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years according to Revelation 20. And that the coming meant in Daniel 7:22 is what puts an end to the war with the saints recorded in Daniel 7:21.

Okay, I think your point is that these are referring to the same time in these two books. If that what you mean to say, than I agree.

Obviously then, Premil has the thousand years in the correct place not Amil.

Getting back to the saints of the most High meant in Daniel 7:22. It seems to me since they are meaning the 'them' meant in Revelation 20:4, it is then a matter of, who are the 'them' meaning in Revelation 20:4?

I hope I understand this... does the pronoun "them" refer to the "saints of the Most High?" I believe they do.

Apparently, they are meaning those that lived again and reign with Christ a thousand years.

21“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


It is my understanding that all of the words highlighted in black speak to the same saints and at the same time. Does any of what I am saying make sense to you and provides the kind of response you might have been looking for from me? Look forward to hearing back from you.

 

[Davidpt]

To be very candid, I do not even consider terms such as Amil, Premil, etc., and all of the other labels people give or assign to others. Even among those individual groups there are many different undertandings. How many denonimations are there? So, without sounding like a jerk, I stay completely away from those discussions.

I don't care for labels either, such as Amil, Premil, but it is what it is. Labels at least make it easier to determine which angle someone is coming from, since the angle one is coming from makes all the difference in the world. Anyone labeled as an Amil is then going to be coming from the angle that the thousand years precede the 2nd coming and began around the time of the cross or soon thereafter.

Anyone labeled as a Premil is going to be coming from the angle that the thousand years begin after Christ returns in the end of this age. With things like that in mind, which angle does Daniel 7:22 in light of Revelation 20:4-6 support? Let's see. If Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years according to Revelation 20, and that Daniel 7:21 has to be fulfilled before Daniel 7:22 can be fulfilled, it would then look like this, A) and B) below. Keeping in mind that if Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years, that verse 21 precedes the thousand years, not follows it, no matter how you want to look at it.

A) If coming from the angle that the thousand years began 2000 years ago, this then means Daniel 7:21 is meaning prior to 2000 years ago since verse 21 has to precede the thousand years if verse 22 is meaning the thousand years.

B) If coming from the angle that the thousand years are still future, this places Daniel 7:21 in the end of this age where it's supposed to be placed to begin with. It is verse 21 that precedes the 2nd coming in the end of this age.

Obviously then, it is only B) that is in agreement with Daniel 7:22 in light of that Revelation 20:4 tells us that Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years and that Daniel 7:21 has to precede the thousand years if that's the case. Meaning if verse 22 is meaning the thousand years. And surely it is. What else could it be meaning if not the thousand years?

I hope I understand this... does the pronoun "them" refer to the "saints of the Most High?" I believe they do.




21“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


It is my understanding that all of the words highlighted in black speak to the same saints and at the same time. Does any of what I am saying make sense to you and provides the kind of response you might have been looking for from me? Look forward to hearing back from you.

That's how I understand the text as well. So yes you are making sense to me here.

 

[CTK]

I don't care for labels either, such as Amil, Premil, but it is what it is. Labels at least make it easier to determine which angle someone is coming from, since the angle one is coming from makes all the difference in the world. Anyone labeled as an Amil is then going to be coming from the angle that the thousand years precede the 2nd coming and began around the time of the cross or soon thereafter.

Anyone labeled as a Premil is going to be coming from the angle that the thousand years begin after Christ returns in the end of this age. With things like that in mind, which angle does Daniel 7:22 in light of Revelation 20:4-6 support? Let's see. If Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years according to Revelation 20, and that Daniel 7:21 has to be fulfilled before Daniel 7:22 can be fulfilled, it would then look like this, A) and B) below. Keeping in mind that if Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years, that verse 21 precedes the thousand years, not follows it, no matter how you want to look at it.

A) If coming from the angle that the thousand years began 2000 years ago, this then means Daniel 7:21 is meaning prior to 2000 years ago since verse 21 has to precede the thousand years if verse 22 is meaning the thousand years.

B) If coming from the angle that the thousand years are still future, this places Daniel 7:21 in the end of this age where it's supposed to be placed to begin with. It is verse 21 that precedes the 2nd coming in the end of this age.

Obviously then, it is only B) that is in agreement with Daniel 7:22 in light of that Revelation 20:4 tells us that Daniel 7:22 is meaning the thousand years and that Daniel 7:21 has to precede the thousand years if that's the case. Meaning if verse 22 is meaning the thousand years. And surely it is. What else could it be meaning if not the thousand years?





That's how I understand the text as well. So yes you are making sense to me here.

I agree with you... It seems you have a nice understanding of both Daniel and Revelation. Two so very difficult books. Best wishes always.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

Davy is correct, there is a 5th Beast, but tbh, I have him on ignore, so he may have just gotten lucky and still sees it as Islamic or whatever angle, I do not place people on ignore usually.

What people miss is God (GET THIS and it will become clear) put the Church Age in the middle of the Beasts who subdue Israel for 70 weeks (490 years) that is why the Toes and feet are Iron & Clay. Its Old Rome Reunited but in a different way, Rome conquered by Force, this Rome is a bunch of nations who conjoined themselves together and called themselves the European Union (E.U.) they tried to reform over and over but the seed of men would not come-together, meaning many factions could not become one, later they tried via Royal Marriage but to no avail.

So, take out the nigh 2000 year Church Age (Pre Trib. Rapture) and what do you get? You get the E.U. Conquering Israel and THE MANY (other nations on the Mediterranean Sea Coastline) then add in Turkey which Dan. 8:9 MANDATES that the Anti-Christ/Little Horn has to come out of Greece/E.U. and Conquer both Turkey (Seleucus/to the East) and Egypt (Ptolemy/to the South) so as we read Dan. 11:40-43 we see this end time Little Horn/AC Conquering Israel and MANY NATIONS, and that is when the Beast is REBORN, he has to conquer Israel to be revived as The Beast. He alone is THE BEAST as Dan. 7:17 shows these Great Beasts are FOUR Kings, they only turn into Beast Nations once they pass the9tr Kingdoms on to their sons/Generals etc. etc. So, this is why the A.C./Little Horn is THE BEAST of Rev. 13, he never passes his Kingdom on, he alone is the Beast. Once he conquers as Dan. 7:40-43 shows, he is the Beast, he of course can not conquer Edom, Moab and Ammon, guess where that is....Yes, the Petra/Bozrah region !!

Rome in 117 AD



The E.U. after the Conquer Israel and THE MANY [NATIONS] Below:



See the E.U. in Blue on both maps? The Brown & Orange represents nations that currently have 7 year agreements with the E.U. (I joke not) and the stated goals are to harbor friendship and trade relations, and to form closer bond than Russia and China. This started 25 to 30 years ago. Every 7 years the E.U. is passing out 15 Billion Euros. One stated final goal is to one day maybe offer STATEHOOD to some of the Nations.........AGREEMENT = Covenant in Hebrew. So, here is why this comes to pass, the 70th week starts when Israel joins the E.U. That is when the Rapture happens, that is when God's anger is rekindled at Israel for (basically) giving His land away. This is how the AC/Little Horn gets Israel to do away with their Nukes, thus in the middle of the week, he turns on then and conquers Israel and THE MANY to Revive the Old Rome Empire on a map. Its not Rome per se. It is a ONE MAN Beast, because the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) give their power unto the Beast.

Take out the Church Age and Rome left us then the 10 (Completion = 10) Horns (Powers) unite and the exact same Landmass is Reborn. But they are not like old Rome, they are many nations trying to be one nation, thus the Clay is mixed with Iron.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is how the AC/Little Horn gets Israel to do away with their Nukes, thus in the middle of the week, he turns on then and conquers Israel and THE MANY to Revive the Old Rome Empire on a map. Its not Rome per se. It is a ONE MAN Beast, because the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) give their power unto the Beast.

Take out the Church Age and Rome left us then the 10 (Completion = 10) Horns (Powers) unite and the exact same Landmass is Reborn. But they are not like old Rome, they are many nations trying to be one nation, thus the Clay is mixed with Iron.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Too lazy to read or are you just one of those who thinks you understand Prophesy but don't even attend church? I have been a preacher 40 years, with a calling unto Eschatology. People like you, who never learn anything on eschatology, will never listen.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Too lazy to read or are you just one of those who thinks you understand Prophesy but don't even attend church? I have been a preacher 40 years, with a calling unto Eschatology. People like you, who never learn anything on eschatology, will never listen.

LOL!

Your 40 years in the pulpit mean nothing if you’ve spent them using the wrong lens to interpret prophecy and create speculations. The Bereans were commended not for how many years they preached, but for testing everything against the Scriptures. Your eschatology is built on shifting sands—historic empires, modern geopolitics, and the headlines of world news—when God’s Word points to something far greater: spiritual Israel, the true Church, redeemed in Christ.

The prophets spoke of the Messiah’s kingdom as a present, spiritual reality (John 18:36), not a future political empire. Paul made it clear that “not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” (Romans 9:6), and that in Christ, there is “neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one” (Galatians 3:28). Clinging to a physical, nationalistic expectation blinds you to the fact that every promise of God finds its “Yes” in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20).

So no, it’s not laziness. It’s that I refuse to twist prophecy into a political timeline when the Bible interprets itself spiritually and consistently. I will listen to Scripture as its own interpreter, not to a method rooted in newspaper exegesis and nationalistic bias.

 

[covenantee]

Davy is correct, there is a 5th Beast, but tbh, I have him on ignore, so he may have just gotten lucky and still sees it as Islamic or whatever angle, I do not place people on ignore usually.

What people miss is God (GET THIS and it will become clear) put the Church Age in the middle of the Beasts who subdue Israel for 70 weeks (490 years) that is why the Toes and feet are Iron & Clay. Its Old Rome Reunited but in a different way, Rome conquered by Force, this Rome is a bunch of nations who conjoined themselves together and called themselves the European Union (E.U.) they tried to reform over and over but the seed of men would not come-together, meaning many factions could not become one, later they tried via Royal Marriage but to no avail.

So, take out the nigh 2000 year Church Age (Pre Trib. Rapture) and what do you get? You get the E.U. Conquering Israel and THE MANY (other nations on the Mediterranean Sea Coastline) then add in Turkey which Dan. 8:9 MANDATES that the Anti-Christ/Little Horn has to come out of Greece/E.U. and Conquer both Turkey (Seleucus/to the East) and Egypt (Ptolemy/to the South) so as we read Dan. 11:40-43 we see this end time Little Horn/AC Conquering Israel and MANY NATIONS, and that is when the Beast is REBORN, he has to conquer Israel to be revived as The Beast. He alone is THE BEAST as Dan. 7:17 shows these Great Beasts are FOUR Kings, they only turn into Beast Nations once they pass the9tr Kingdoms on to their sons/Generals etc. etc. So, this is why the A.C./Little Horn is THE BEAST of Rev. 13, he never passes his Kingdom on, he alone is the Beast. Once he conquers as Dan. 7:40-43 shows, he is the Beast, he of course can not conquer Edom, Moab and Ammon, guess where that is....Yes, the Petra/Bozrah region !!

Rome in 117 AD

View attachment 68336

The E.U. after the Conquer Israel and THE MANY [NATIONS] Below:

View attachment 68339
View attachment 68338
See the E.U. in Blue on both maps? The Brown & Orange represents nations that currently have 7 year agreements with the E.U. (I joke not) and the stated goals are to harbor friendship and trade relations, and to form closer bond than Russia and China. This started 25 to 30 years ago. Every 7 years the E.U. is passing out 15 Billion Euros. One stated final goal is to one day maybe offer STATEHOOD to some of the Nations.........AGREEMENT = Covenant in Hebrew. So, here is why this comes to pass, the 70th week starts when Israel joins the E.U. That is when the Rapture happens, that is when God's anger is rekindled at Israel for (basically) giving His land away. This is how the AC/Little Horn gets Israel to do away with their Nukes, thus in the middle of the week, he turns on then and conquers Israel and THE MANY to Revive the Old Rome Empire on a map. Its not Rome per se. It is a ONE MAN Beast, because the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) give their power unto the Beast.

Take out the Church Age and Rome left us then the 10 (Completion = 10) Horns (Powers) unite and the exact same Landmass is Reborn. But they are not like old Rome, they are many nations trying to be one nation, thus the Clay is mixed with Iron.

That's not Scriptural eschatology or prophecy.

That's modernist revisionist Scofield dispensational Jesuit apostate futurism.

Nonexistent in the pre-1800 historical true Christian Church for 1700 years.

 

[Wish-it]

Does Scripture ever tell us how many toes there are? What if the image was that of a Giant with twelve toes?



Days of Noe:

I'd suggest reading Psalm 83. 10 nations. 3 eventually subdued in Dan 7.8, Dan 7.24. Probably also in Dan 11.41 Edom, Moab, Ammon (also part of Psalm 83).

 

[Jay Ross]

Well, nothing has happened to the ten toes yet, but the twenty nations/countries/empires/kingdoms will be struck by the rock/stone that comes down out of heaven to become the foundation stone of God's Temple/Religion.

The many nations that joined with the President of the USA will come to the realisation that they were not meant to heal the land of Babylon when they invaded the Nation, Iraq, that had dominion over the Land of Babylon in 2003 and the impact of God's Prophetic words for each of the ten toes representing two nations/countries/empires/kingdoms over their respective nations/countries/empires/kingdoms.

The Ten toes had turned away from worshipping God and had decided to begin acting God like in what they would be doing in the Land of Babylon to "Heal" that land.

Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear to will know the scriptures that are applicable penned around 19 years after Daniel had penned Daniel 2.

Shalom

 

[Douggg]

the 70th week starts when Israel joins the E.U. That is when the Rapture happens, that is when God's anger is rekindled at Israel for (basically) giving His land away. This is how the AC/Little Horn gets Israel to do away with their Nukes, thus in the middle of the week, he turns on then and conquers Israel and THE MANY to Revive the Old Rome Empire on a map. Its not Rome per se. It is a ONE MAN Beast, because the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) give their power unto the Beast.

Hi Ronald,

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Israel will ever join the EU.

The 70th week will start right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39. The 7 years coincide with the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9.

The little horn person, coming out of the EU area, over a group of ten EU leaders, will be the prince that shall come of Daniel 9:26, following the Gog/Magog event.

The Jews will perceive him to be their long awaited King of Israel messiah. The false prophet, who the Jews will initially think is the manifestation of Elijah the prophet will anoint the person the King of Israel. Which will be that act that officially makes the person the Antichrist.

About three years will go by, a time the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

Around the three year mark, the Antichrist will commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13, described in 2Thessalonians2:4, revealing himself as the man of sin - and not the messiah after all. It will end his stage of being the Antichrist as the Jews will reject him as continuing as their king.

His audacious act of sitting in the temple, claiming to have achieved God-hood will draw God's wrath - and God will bring strangers against him - who will assassinate him (Ezekiel 28:1-10).



Then in disdain for the person, and to fulfill that which God has foretold the prophets, God returns his soul to his body - and the person comes back to life as the beast-king of Revelation 13.



The ten EU leaders will then hand their EU kingdom over to him to be the dictator of.

Here is a chart of the five stage that the person will go through....

 

[Douggg]

Well, nothing has happened to the ten toes yet, but the twenty nations/countries/empires/kingdoms will be struck by the rock/stone that comes down out of heaven to become the foundation stone of God's Temple/Religion.

Jay, it five toes on each foot, to total ten - not twenty.

 

[CTK]

Davy is correct, there is a 5th Beast, but tbh, I have him on ignore, so he may have just gotten lucky and still sees it as Islamic or whatever angle, I do not place people on ignore usually.

What people miss is God (GET THIS and it will become clear) put the Church Age in the middle of the Beasts who subdue Israel for 70 weeks (490 years) that is why the Toes and feet are Iron & Clay. Its Old Rome Reunited but in a different way, Rome conquered by Force, this Rome is a bunch of nations who conjoined themselves together and called themselves the European Union (E.U.) they tried to reform over and over but the seed of men would not come-together, meaning many factions could not become one, later they tried via Royal Marriage but to no avail.

So, take out the nigh 2000 year Church Age (Pre Trib. Rapture) and what do you get? You get the E.U. Conquering Israel and THE MANY (other nations on the Mediterranean Sea Coastline) then add in Turkey which Dan. 8:9 MANDATES that the Anti-Christ/Little Horn has to come out of Greece/E.U. and Conquer both Turkey (Seleucus/to the East) and Egypt (Ptolemy/to the South) so as we read Dan. 11:40-43 we see this end time Little Horn/AC Conquering Israel and MANY NATIONS, and that is when the Beast is REBORN, he has to conquer Israel to be revived as The Beast. He alone is THE BEAST as Dan. 7:17 shows these Great Beasts are FOUR Kings, they only turn into Beast Nations once they pass the9tr Kingdoms on to their sons/Generals etc. etc. So, this is why the A.C./Little Horn is THE BEAST of Rev. 13, he never passes his Kingdom on, he alone is the Beast. Once he conquers as Dan. 7:40-43 shows, he is the Beast, he of course can not conquer Edom, Moab and Ammon, guess where that is....Yes, the Petra/Bozrah region !!

Rome in 117 AD

View attachment 68336

The E.U. after the Conquer Israel and THE MANY [NATIONS] Below:

View attachment 68339
View attachment 68338
See the E.U. in Blue on both maps? The Brown & Orange represents nations that currently have 7 year agreements with the E.U. (I joke not) and the stated goals are to harbor friendship and trade relations, and to form closer bond than Russia and China. This started 25 to 30 years ago. Every 7 years the E.U. is passing out 15 Billion Euros. One stated final goal is to one day maybe offer STATEHOOD to some of the Nations.........AGREEMENT = Covenant in Hebrew. So, here is why this comes to pass, the 70th week starts when Israel joins the E.U. That is when the Rapture happens, that is when God's anger is rekindled at Israel for (basically) giving His land away. This is how the AC/Little Horn gets Israel to do away with their Nukes, thus in the middle of the week, he turns on then and conquers Israel and THE MANY to Revive the Old Rome Empire on a map. Its not Rome per se. It is a ONE MAN Beast, because the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) give their power unto the Beast.

Take out the Church Age and Rome left us then the 10 (Completion = 10) Horns (Powers) unite and the exact same Landmass is Reborn. But they are not like old Rome, they are many nations trying to be one nation, thus the Clay is mixed with Iron.

But is that what it says in Daniel? Doesn't chapter 2 and 7 reveal the 4 and only 4 kingdoms? They come in consecutive order ... what tells you to add a fifth kingdom and where to add it? Scripture does not speak of this in any manner... Look forward to hearing back ...

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, it five toes on each foot, to total ten - not twenty.

The number of toes is not in dispute, there is a total of ten toes, but each toe has the properties of iron and clay and each material property represents a nation/country/empire/kingdom which means that there were twenty individual nations/countries/empires/kingdoms that were part of the invasion force in 2003 that entered Iraq in an attempt to heal the land of Babylon.

But before you attempt to correct what I have posted, should you not have your understanding of the end times correct as well.

 

[Douggg]

The number of toes is not in dispute, there is a total of ten toes, but each toe has the properties of iron and clay and each material property represents a nation/country/empire/kingdom which means that there were twenty individual nations/countries/empires/kingdoms that were part of the invasion force in 2003 that entered Iraq in an attempt to heal the land of Babylon.

But before you attempt to correct what I have posted, should you not have your understanding of the end times correct as well.

Jay, it not just the toes of iron and clay - but the feet and the toes of iron and clay. So your rationale is incorrect.

Also has nothing to do with the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Instead, the ten toes are ten kings who will be in power when Jesus returns - bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to be the Kingdom of God
to rule over all the nations of the earth during Jesus's thousand year millennial rule..

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, it not just the toes of iron and clay - but the feet and the toes of iron and clay. So your rationale is incorrect.

Also has nothing to do with the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Instead, the ten toes are ten kings who will be in power when Jesus returns - bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to be the Kingdom of God
to rule over all the nations of the earth during Jesus's thousand year millennial rule..

Dougggggggg, you have just proved my point that you need to check to confirm if your End Times understanding is correct. I believe that it is not.

The facts of the matter is that it has everything to do with the 2003 invasion of Iraq lead by the President of the USA.

 

[Douggg]

Dougggggggg, you have just proved my point that you need to check to confirm if your End Times understanding is correct. I believe that it is not.

The facts of the matter is that it has everything to do with the 2003 invasion of Iraq lead by the President of the USA.

Jay, how many kings in Revelation 17:12 ?

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. kjv

Daniel 2 the ten toes = Daniel 7 the ten horns = Revelation 17 the ten kings

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, how many kings in Revelation 17:12 ?

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. kjv

Daniel 2 the ten toes = Daniel 7 the ten horns = Revelation 17 the ten kings

That is your opinion which is not correct that Daniel 2 = Dan7= Rev 19.

We have already seen the fulfilling of the Daniel 2 ten toes during this present time.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 17 the ten kings

I wouldn't place any stock in man's teaching that declares kings were horns. Or human kings. Actually, it's the other way around with God declaring that "horns" represent kings. Horns in Scripture are a symbol representing power.

For example, in Psalms 8:21 or 2nd Samuel 22:3, saying "horn of my salvation" is the same as God declaring His Power of salvation because the horn is the symbol in the Bible of "Power". We can see why simply by looking at the natural world. The horns of a bull are his power, those objects that men are most afraid of. The horns of an animal are looked upon as its power even today. God used horns symbolically this way, which is why there were horns on the Altar of Israel. The altar is for the administration of the strength of sacrifice, which represented Christ. In understanding this we can readily see why God says "Horn of my Salvation," because all throughout the Bible we see it does illustrate they are used as a "figure" or symbol of the power or strength of whatever is in view.

Psalms 89:17

• For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted

People don't literally have a horn to be lifted up of course, but the horn is used here to convey the sense of believers being exalted in the glory of "His strength." We are lifted up in His strength (Psalms 46:1; 81:1) rather than our own. e.g.:

Lamentations 2:3

• "He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."

To cut off the horn of Israel is to break their "Power" so that they will be defeated. Again, this illustrates that their horn is a symbol of their strength and power.

Deuteronomy 33:17

• "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

Here again, the horn is used to symbolize the object of the power and strength of the bull that enables him to push against the people.

Lamentations 2:17

• "The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries."

In this passage, God uses the horn to signify that he has taken away the strength or power of Israel as judgment, and has exalted the horn (or Power) of their adversaries to overcome them. In other words, while (verse 3) cutting off the horn of Israel means they no longer had power to stand against their enemies, setting up the horn of their adversaries (verse 17) means that the enemies now had the Power to conquer Israel. Clearly the horns there signify Power or strength. We see that when a horn is broken or cut off, it is symbolism that one's power has been broken or cut off. Whether used in conjunction with a crown, where it's man's ability to rule (as a king), or for something to be unable to stand or have strength before an enemy, that signified the cutting off of power. E.g.:

Daniel 8:7

• "And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand."

When the horn was broken, there was no more "power" in him to stand before the he goat. This is what those broken "horns" symbolized. And the same with the power of evil when it was broken.

Daniel 8:8

• "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

The great horn allowed him to push with power so that the Ram could not stand before him. i.e., it 'symbolized' his great power. And likewise, when his horn was broken, it symbolizes his power being broken or taken away.

Likewise in Revelation chapter 17 where we see that the dragon had ten horns. Here the number ten signifies fullness, and the horns signify power. So this imagery is to illustrate the fullness of time these kings have "power" to rule along with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive Power as kings one hour with the beast."

The horns signify the "power" they had to rule with the beast for this short period.

1st Kings 22:11

• "And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them."

Here God uses the imagery of horns of iron to illustrate the great power of them by which they could push the Syrians and defeat them. The recurring theme of horns is that they symbolize the power of whatever is in view. Likewise, the lamb of Revelation chapter five verse six has seven horns depicting its power. The number seven illustrates the completeness or totality of whatever is in view, and thus this represents complete power. This signifies the lamb which was slain, was the appointed sacrifice and had complete or total power. Even as Christ illustrated Himself.

Matthew 28:18

• "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

1st Peter 3:22

• "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

So the Lamb with 7 horns signifies Jesus Christ, the complete power of God in the atonement. This of course is also witnessed by God speaking of the power of the sacrifice in the imagery of the four or universal horns of the altar.

Leviticus 4:7

• "And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation."

Or in breaking the power of idolatry in breaking off the horns of the altar.

Amos 3:14

• "That in the day that I shall visit the transgressions of Israel upon him I will also visit the altars of Bethel: and the horns of the altar shall be cut off, and fall to the ground."

By this God is illustrating that he is taking away its power or strength.

The horns of the Dragon and the horns of the Lamb are related only in the sense that The Dragon is the substitute Christ or "Anti-christ" which mimics the true. The spirit of Satan the antithesis of the Spirit of Christ. He is truly the Pseudo christ. e.g.,

Revelation 13:11

• "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Horns "like" a lamb. This is the substitute or Pseudo Christ who mimics the Lamb of God, but is truly the Antichrist. He comes looking like the "Power" of Christ, but his words are what gives him away. For they are not the words of God, they are the words of men, the words of nullification, compromise, and lawlessness. The word of God is what the man of God will come with, but the words of Antichrist is what the man of lawlessness (sin) would come with. Satan's greatest deception is that he comes "looking like" the power of God and as a minister of righteousness (2nd Corinthians 11:14-15). He comes saying Peace, Peace, he comes with healings, he comes saying God loves you, because he is the great deceiver. This is his M.O. or Modus Operandi. In this sense that horns represent power. It is power no matter whose it is (Satan's or Christ's).

The point is, the ten horns or ten kings are not who you think they are. They are not the ten leaders or countries. It is the body of beast, the false prophets and christs who will receive power to rule in God's congregation for a short season.

 

[Exegesis]

The ten kings are not going to be a group of ten giants.

Hey Mr. AI, what say you?

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What does Scripture teach?

Daniel 2:38 - "And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."​

Wherever the daughters of men dwell? Sounds familiar.

If the head is symbolic Babylon, then the whole body must also be symbolic of Babylon in a larger sense.

Mystery Babylon, the 'earth mother'.

Babylon is the land of Giants. The image ultimately depicts their return.

Word to your mother.