what irritates the crud out of me about "Christians" so-called

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Ok, Jesus referred to the transfiguration as a vision and it had to be. So tell me, why did Jesus speak with dead men in the vision. Why did He speak with nonexistant men? What was the point?
[/QUOTE\]

At Matthew 16: 27,28 Jesus said that some of his Apostles wouldn't taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
The Transfiguration is the Apostles Peter, John, and James seeing in vision Jesus coming in his kingdom which would be a future event that would happen during Jesus Christ second presence.
Basically the vision was showing Jesus Apostles of his future glory and power as king of God's kingdom. This vision built up the disciples faith and strengthened them for the tests and years of hard work that lay ahead.
Since Moses and Elijah shared in Christ’s glory, these two faithful witnesses represent those who rule with Jesus in his Kingdom. The understanding that Jesus has corulers is in harmony with a visionary foregleam of the enthroned Messiah that the prophet Daniel was granted. Daniel saw “someone like a son of man” receiving “an indefinitely lasting rulership” from “the Ancient of Days,” Jehovah God. But note what Daniel is shown shortly thereafter. He writes: “The kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.” (Daniel 7:13, 14, 27) Yes, more than five centuries before the transfiguration, God revealed that certain “holy ones” would share in Christ’s royal grandeur.
These are those who are born again, the Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ that God chooses or elects. These who are anointed with God's Holy Spirit will have a resurrection like Jesus, that just as Jesus was given immortality and inherited incorruption so will these who are born again. The Transfiguration showed that Jesus Christ had God's approval and it was a forever of his future glory and kingdom power. Also the fact that Moses and Elijah were there at the transfiguration shows that in the second presence of Jesus Christ he's to accomplish a work that was similar to these two prophets. God caused many signs through these two prophets and God through his Son was going to do a greater work but similar to both Moses and Elijah.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Now you're just denying scripture.

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Timothy 4:1
That which is not visible can not "appear" and God doesn't make mistakes. Who taught you such nonsense?

I'm not denying scripture, but instead believing what Jesus said. You wish to remain in ignorance when it comes to what Jesus said, that's your choice.

 

[Guestman]

Babylon the Great may have been built somewhere near the location of the tower of Babel, but it was built centuries after the destruction of that tower and the only thing they had in common was the root word in their respective names. Babylon was built by King Nebuchadnezzar according to the scriptural account, and somewhere around the reign of King Hezekiah, fairly late in the biblical narrative.

Babel that later came to be called Babylon was built by Nimrod, for Genesis 10 says: "Cush became father to Nimʹrod. He was the first to become a mighty one on the earth. He became a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: “Just like Nimʹrod, a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” The beginning of his kingdom was Baʹbel, Eʹrech, Acʹcad, and Calʹneh, in the land of Shiʹnar."(Gen 10:8-10)

The name Babel is derived from the verb ba·lal´, meaning “confuse.” Local citizens, thinking of their city as God’s seat of government, claimed that the name was compounded from Bab (Gate) and ilu (God), signifying “Gate of God" or Babylon.

At Genesis 11:1, it establishes that "all the earth continued to be of one language and of one set of words", before Jehovah God caused "confusion" of the people, being divided into different groups due to the new languages that they now only knew, having no clue as to what the previous language of most likely Hebrew meant.(Gen 11:5-9)

Babel’s God-defying program centered around construction of a religious tower “with its top in the heavens.” It was not built for the worship and praise of Jehovah, but was dedicated to false man-made religion, with a motive of making a “celebrated name” for the builders.(Gen 11:4)

The approximate time of such building may be drawn from the following information: Peleg lived from 2269 to 2030 B.C.E. His name meant “Division,” for “in his lifetime the earth [that is, “earth’s population”] was divided”, in which Jehovah “scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth.” (Gen 10:25; 11:9) A text of Skarkalisharri, king of Agade (Accad) in patriarchal times (who appears to have reigned c. 2153–2129 B.C.E.?), mentions his restoring a temple-tower at Babylon, implying that such a structure existed prior to his reign.

Nimrod, who lived in the latter part of the third millennium B.C.E., founded Babylon as the capital of man’s first political empire, in which later generations of rebuilders came and went. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of Hammurabi, that "Hammurapi, (born, Babylon [now in Iraq]—died c. 1750 bce), sixth and best-known ruler of the 1st (Amorite) dynasty of Babylon (reigning c. 1792–1750 bce), noted for his surviving set of laws."

So, long before Nebuchanezzar II lived (reigned 625-582 B.C.E.) were a long list of previous rulers (such as his father Nabopolassar [reigned 645-625 B.C.E.] who founded a new Babylonian dynasty as well as Babylonian King Merodach, who sent a gift to Hezekiah [reigned 746-717 B.C.E.] when he had heard he had been sick, Isa 39:1), that continued to "remodel" ancient Babylon till its total demise by the 4th century C.E.(Isa 13:19-22; Note: King Nebuchadnezzar II created "the hanging gardens of Babylon", considered one of the seven wonders of the world, and said presumptuously: "Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty"(Dan 4:30), so that Jehovah caused him to become insane for seven years, Dan 4:25, 33)

Now down to Babylon the Great, that it was named after ancient Babylon as a center of false religion by Jehovah God in the Bible book of Revelation. Those who do as Jesus said, to "get the sense of it" (meaning of the Greek word syniemi that he used some six times at Matthew 13, and that literally means "to mentally put the pieces together") concerning God's Kingdom, that these ones can figure out reasonably, by doing serious research and meditation without bias, that ancient Babylon was the prototype of Babylon the Great.

Of course, a person has to recognize what is "truth" and what is "lies" for them to be able to discern the deep meaning of Babylon the Great, to sort out "fact from fiction".

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm not denying scripture, but instead believing what Jesus said. You wish to remain in ignorance when it comes to what Jesus said, that's your choice.

Now you're just lying. Jesus spoke openly about his return and drinking new wine with those disciples that you assert are now nonexistant. You should be ashamed of yourself and will be when you stand before Him to give account of every false witness.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Babel that later came to be called Babylon was built by Nimrod, for Genesis 10 says: "Cush became father to Nimʹrod. He was the first to become a mighty one on the earth. He became a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: “Just like Nimʹrod, a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” The beginning of his kingdom was Baʹbel, Eʹrech, Acʹcad, and Calʹneh, in the land of Shiʹnar."(Gen 10:8-10)

The name Babel is derived from the verb ba·lal´, meaning “confuse.” Local citizens, thinking of their city as God’s seat of government, claimed that the name was compounded from Bab (Gate) and ilu (God), signifying “Gate of God" or Babylon.

At Genesis 11:1, it establishes that "all the earth continued to be of one language and of one set of words", before Jehovah God caused "confusion" of the people, being divided into different groups due to the new languages that they now only knew, having no clue as to what the previous language of most likely Hebrew meant.(Gen 11:5-9)

Babel’s God-defying program centered around construction of a religious tower “with its top in the heavens.” It was not built for the worship and praise of Jehovah, but was dedicated to false man-made religion, with a motive of making a “celebrated name” for the builders.(Gen 11:4)

The approximate time of such building may be drawn from the following information: Peleg lived from 2269 to 2030 B.C.E. His name meant “Division,” for “in his lifetime the earth [that is, “earth’s population”] was divided”, in which Jehovah “scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth.” (Gen 10:25; 11:9) A text of Skarkalisharri, king of Agade (Accad) in patriarchal times (who appears to have reigned c. 2153–2129 B.C.E.?), mentions his restoring a temple-tower at Babylon, implying that such a structure existed prior to his reign.

Nimrod, who lived in the latter part of the third millennium B.C.E., founded Babylon as the capital of man’s first political empire, in which later generations of rebuilders came and went. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of Hammurabi, that "Hammurapi, (born, Babylon [now in Iraq]—died c. 1750 bce), sixth and best-known ruler of the 1st (Amorite) dynasty of Babylon (reigning c. 1792–1750 bce), noted for his surviving set of laws."

So, long before Nebuchanezzar II lived (reigned 625-582 B.C.E.) were a long list of previous rulers (such as his father Nabopolassar [reigned 645-625 B.C.E.] who founded a new Babylonian dynasty as well as Babylonian King Merodach, who sent a gift to Hezekiah [reigned 746-717 B.C.E.] when he had heard he had been sick, Isa 39:1), that continued to "remodel" ancient Babylon till its total demise by the 4th century C.E.(Isa 13:19-22; Note: King Nebuchadnezzar II created "the hanging gardens of Babylon", considered one of the seven wonders of the world, and said presumptuously: "Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty"(Dan 4:30), so that Jehovah caused him to become insane for seven years, Dan 4:25, 33)

Now down to Babylon the Great, that it was named after ancient Babylon as a center of false religion by Jehovah God in the Bible book of Revelation. Those who do as Jesus said, to "get the sense of it" (meaning of the Greek word syniemi that he used some six times at Matthew 13, and that literally means "to mentally put the pieces together") concerning God's Kingdom, that these ones can figure out reasonably, by doing serious research and meditation without bias, that ancient Babylon was the prototype of Babylon the Great.

Of course, a person has to recognize what is "truth" and what is "lies" for them to be able to discern the deep meaning of Babylon the Great, to sort out "fact from fiction".

Yes, but the Babylonian empire wasn't an empire before Nebuchadnezzar.
By the way, Babylon in the language of the Babylonians means heaven's gate or heaven's door, which is probably why it means confusion in Hebrew. This is why some see one of the largest "Christian " denominations as the modern spiritual Babylon, even as the early church saw Jerusalem as spiritual Babylon.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Now you're just lying. Jesus spoke openly about his return and drinking new wine with those disciples that you assert are now nonexistant. You should be ashamed of yourself and will be when you stand before Him to give account of every false witness.

You're not listening to what the scriptures say. You want to believe I'm lying to you, so be it. I'm not ashamed of telling the truth. God was very truthful when he told Adam what he said at Genesis 3:19. In this Scripture God uses the word you/thou when speaking to Adam. God is talking to that person when God says to Adam, "In the sweat of your face YOU will eat bread until YOU return to the ground, for out of it YOU were taken. For dust YOU are and to dust YOU will return. You can huff and puff about it and call me a liar but this Scripture shows that Adam didn't exist until God brought him into existence. God has never promised eternal life to the unfaithful, but only eternal death for the unfaithful. Death is the opposite of life. Life or when you are living, means you exist, it means being aware of your surroundings. Death is the opposite of that, you don't exist, you're not aware of your surroundings. People who believe that there is no death, but instead believe that at death a person Is called out of his/her body are simply saying this or that person is just experiencing another doorway to another plain of existence and so they are not believing that a person dies, which means that by the way they believe they're calling God a liar, because they don't believe a person is dead but just living in another plain of existence.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You're not listening to what the scriptures say. You want to believe I'm lying to you, so be it. I'm not ashamed of telling the truth. God was very truthful when he told Adam what he said at Genesis 3:19. In this Scripture God uses the word you/thou when speaking to Adam. God is talking to that person when God says to Adam, "In the sweat of your face YOU will eat bread until YOU return to the ground, for out of it YOU were taken. For dust YOU are and to dust YOU will return. You can huff and puff about it and call me a liar but this Scripture shows that Adam didn't exist until God brought him into existence. God has never promised eternal life to the unfaithful, but only eternal death for the unfaithful. Death is the opposite of life. Life or when you are living, means you exist, it means being aware of your surroundings. Death is the opposite of that, you don't exist, you're not aware of your surroundings. People who believe that there is no death, but instead believe that at death a person Is called out of his/her body are simply saying this or that person is just experiencing another doorway to another plain of existence and so they are not believing that a person dies, which means that by the way they believe they're calling God a liar, because they don't believe a person is dead but just living in another plain of existence.

Barney, you deny what scripture plainly says and what Jesus plainly says. He is the true and faithful witness, and you most definitely aren't so here is the word of God that applies to you:
3 Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth: ‘Every thief shall be expelled,’ according to this side of the scroll; and, ‘Every perjurer shall be expelled,’ according to that side of it.”
4 “I will send out the curse,” says the Lord of hosts;
“It shall enter the house of the thief
And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name.
It shall remain in the midst of his house
And consume it, with its timber and stones.” Zechariah 5:3-4
You've been tolerated here, shown every grace, but have refused mercy in the hardness of your heart. God is not mocked.
I hope that you have good fire insurance, but now repentance is between you and God. Your fate is in your hands. You remain anathema maranatha unless the Spirit turns you from destruction. I pray that He does. Amen and Amen.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney, you deny what scripture plainly says and what Jesus plainly says. He is the true and faithful witness, and you most definitely aren't so here is the word of God that applies to you:
3 Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth: ‘Every thief shall be expelled,’ according to this side of the scroll; and, ‘Every perjurer shall be expelled,’ according to that side of it.”
4 “I will send out the curse,” says the Lord of hosts;
“It shall enter the house of the thief
And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name.
It shall remain in the midst of his house
And consume it, with its timber and stones.” Zechariah 5:3-4
You've been tolerated here, shown every grace, but have refused mercy in the hardness of your heart. God is not mocked.
I hope that you have good fire insurance, but now repentance is between you and God. Your fate is in your hands. You remain anathema maranatha unless the Spirit turns you from destruction. I pray that He does. Amen and Amen.[/QUOTE\]

I believe in teaching what the scriptures teach which is, we are Souls, not that we have Souls. That's what the Scriptures teach and that's what I'll believe and teach. You or anyone else certainly can believe what you choose to believe, it's obvious you and I are going to disagree. As far as your curse goes, that's just you trying to apply a Scripture to someone who disagrees with what you say the Scripture say. So be it. The unbelieving people of Jesus day especially the religious leaders, called him the leader of the demons. They believed Jesus to be an Anti-Christ, they didn't believe him to be the Christ. Jesus said that those who followed him would be treated the same by unbelievers.
Death is when someone passes out of existence, the scriptures show us that Adam didn't exist until God took dust from the ground and formed it into a man and blew the breath of life into his nostrils and the man became a living Soul. (Genesis 2:7) So when God said to Adam after he had sinned God told him at Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are, and to dust you will return.” People can argue all they want but God did bring the first man into existence by what is said at Genesis 2:7 so as Genesis 3:19 says Adam goes back into the ground means Adam goes back into nonexistence. People can try to claim that God didn't bring the first man into existence but he did. Genesis 2:7 shows how God brought the first man into existence. Being brought into existence means that the man was given life. Death is the opposite of life.

 

[Guestman]

Yes, but the Babylonian empire wasn't an empire before Nebuchadnezzar.
By the way, Babylon in the language of the Babylonians means heaven's gate or heaven's door, which is probably why it means confusion in Hebrew. This is why some see one of the largest "Christian " denominations as the modern spiritual Babylon, even as the early church saw Jerusalem as spiritual Babylon.

The local people later gave Babel the name of Babylon, meaning "Gate of God", falsely believing that it was a gate to their god (or gods), while Jehovah God accurately called Babel, "because there Jehovah confused the language (of Hebrew) of all the earth, and Jehovah scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth".(Gen 11:9)

Nimrod founded Babel not long after the Global Flood (2370-69 B.C.E.), and in which later generations of rebuilders came and went. Hammurabi (reigned from about 1792 to about 1750 B.C.E.) enlarged the city, strengthened it, and made it the capital of the Babylonian Empire under Semitic rule. Hammurabi forced all the people to give obeisance to Marduk (later referred to as Bel), chief god of Babylon's pantheon of gods.

And it is not a matter of when Babylon became an empire, but what it dispensed in its religious doctrines, being "a land of graven images, and because of their frightful visions they keep on acting with madness" (Jer 50:38), being totally immersed in false religion that completely cause them ' to act with madness ', for there was no "truth" whatsoever in ancient Babylon, being the center from which others nations absorbed its false religious teachings, such as Assyria.

Thus, Jehovah used it, and not Egypt nor Assyria, the first two world powers that held sway over Jehovah's people, to represent the world empire of false religion, Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5), for it was ancient Babylon that was noted as his enemy and seat of false religion, with its trinity of Shamash (the sun-god), Sin (the moon-god) and Ishtar (goddess of love and fertility).

The churches of Christendom have absorbed the triad of gods, with its "Holy Trinity", as well as hellfire from ancient Babylon's belief of "souls" being tormented in the "underworld", due to believing in the immortality of the soul (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by M. Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 556)

The bottom line is that anyone who has not left Babylon the Great with its false religious teachings and practices (Rev 18:4), when "Jehovah's day"(2 Pet 3:10), the "great tribulation" breaks out (Matt 24:21), that "has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks ! For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality (or false religious teachings and practices that is like sex with a prostitute, seducing people to believe lies and do wicked deeds), all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth (or political leaders) committed sexual immorality with her (being intimately involved, wanting to keep the religions of the world happy as their supporters in order to stay in power), and the merchants of the earth (or greedy commerce, from the "mom and pop store" to "big business") became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury", as in Christmas time, will see this: "In one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."(Rev 18:2, 3, 8; see also Rev 17:16, 17)

 

[Guestman]

How many are humble enough to recognize and admit their "error" when accurately shown from the Bible that what they believe is not the "truth" ? How many are willing to see for themselves what the Bible really teaches by a serious, unbiased examination of it ?

For example, to show what the soul is, as Barbey Bright mentioned at Genesis 2:7 and 3:19, here are some more scriptures to help sincere, reasonable people to understand what the Bible really teaches. At Leviticus 23:30, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work on that same day (or day of Atonement, verse 28), the same soul I will destroy from among his people."

At Joshua 10:39, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "And he (Joshua) took it (or captured it), and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote (devoted to destruction) them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls, that were therein; he left none remaining; as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king."

At Deuteronomy 12:20, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh (or meat), because thy soul longeth to eat flesh (or meat); thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after."

And at Jeremiah 2:34, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "Also in thy skirts (or the nation of Israel being spoken of as a woman prostitute (or "harlot"), verses 3, 20 and 33) is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents."

So, up to this point, what has been found ? That (1), that the soul breathes, (2) the soul eats, (3) that the soul bleeds, (4) that the soul can be destroyed. So what is the soul ? This is found in its Hebrew word nephesh that literally means "breather", so that all that breathes are souls, as also seen at Numbers 31:28, that reads according to the King James Bible: "And levy a tribute (impose a tax) unto the LORD of the men of war that took the war upon them which went out to the battle (or went out to the war, that numbered 12,000): one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves (or herd), and of the asses (or donkeys), and of the sheep."

Thus, the soul is us with all our desires, that breathes, eats, bleeds, dies (see James 5:20, King James Bible) and can be destroyed. It is different than our spirit, which is our active life force, that activates our soul by means of breathing, for when we stop breathing, we become "a dead soul", for just before "the breath of life" was put within Adam, he was a dead soul and only became a "living soul", when "God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", so that "man became a living soul".(Gen 2:7, KJV)

Hence, the soul is not immortal, but very mortal, very fragile, for we are just a step away from dying if we stop breathing. As one Bible translation reads at Isaiah 2:22: "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account ?"(New World Translation)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

How many are humble enough to recognize and admit their "error" when accurately shown from the Bible that what they believe is not the "truth" ? How many are willing to see for themselves what the Bible really teaches by a serious, unbiased examination of it ?

For example, to show what the soul is, as Barbey Bright mentioned at Genesis 2:7 and 3:19, here are some more scriptures to help sincere, reasonable people to understand what the Bible really teaches. At Leviticus 23:30, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work on that same day (or day of Atonement, verse 28), the same soul I will destroy from among his people."

At Joshua 10:39, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "And he (Joshua) took it (or captured it), and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote (devoted to destruction) them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls, that were therein; he left none remaining; as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king."

At Deuteronomy 12:20, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh (or meat), because thy soul longeth to eat flesh (or meat); thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after."

And at Jeremiah 2:34, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "Also in thy skirts (or the nation of Israel being spoken of as a woman prostitute (or "harlot"), verses 3, 20 and 33) is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents."

So, up to this point, what has been found ? That (1), that the soul breathes, (2) the soul eats, (3) that the soul bleeds, (4) that the soul can be destroyed. So what is the soul ? This is found in its Hebrew word nephesh that literally means "breather", so that all that breathes are souls, as also seen at Numbers 31:28, that reads according to the King James Bible: "And levy a tribute (impose a tax) unto the LORD of the men of war that took the war upon them which went out to the battle (or went out to the war, that numbered 12,000): one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves (or herd), and of the asses (or donkeys), and of the sheep."

Thus, the soul is us with all our desires, that breathes, eats, bleeds, dies (see James 5:20, King James Bible) and can be destroyed. It is different than our spirit, which is our active life force, that activates our soul by means of breathing, for when we stop breathing, we become "a dead soul", for just before "the breath of life" was put within Adam, he was a dead soul and only became a "living soul", when "God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", so that "man became a living soul".(Gen 2:7, KJV)

Hence, the soul is not immortal, but very mortal, very fragile, for we are just a step away from dying if we stop breathing. As one Bible translation reads at Isaiah 2:22: "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account ?"(New World Translation)

I agree the scriptures are very clear. The scriptures show that we are Souls not that we have Souls.