so without understanding there can be no conversion
What's not to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
What's not to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
What is a Christian?
- Thread starter Ztheberean
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Hi ZthebereanYou wrote(Ztheberean;17807)
I get all my definitions from the word of God, and studying the Greek and Hebrew meanings, not my opinions. If we cannot back up our beliefs with the scriptures, and many of them, then it just our oopinions which are vain.
That really doesn't answer my question in full. I asked where you got it and by that I meant specifically. You say "from the word of God" which I assume yoiu mean the Bible. Since the term "Christian" does not appear in the Bible where are you getting this definition that you used? Your comment "..the Greek and Hebrew meanings.." is unclear to me since, ideally, scripture has meaning above and beyond the language it is used to translate the scripture. What sources are you talking about when you speak of "Greek and Hebrew meanings"??ThanksPete
I get all my definitions from the word of God, and studying the Greek and Hebrew meanings, not my opinions. If we cannot back up our beliefs with the scriptures, and many of them, then it just our oopinions which are vain.
That really doesn't answer my question in full. I asked where you got it and by that I meant specifically. You say "from the word of God" which I assume yoiu mean the Bible. Since the term "Christian" does not appear in the Bible where are you getting this definition that you used? Your comment "..the Greek and Hebrew meanings.." is unclear to me since, ideally, scripture has meaning above and beyond the language it is used to translate the scripture. What sources are you talking about when you speak of "Greek and Hebrew meanings"??ThanksPete
Actually the word appears 3 times in the BibleActs 11:26 and 26:281Peter 4:16definition -Christian, a follower of Christ
(kriss;17868)
Actually the word appears 3 times in the BibleActs 11:26 and 26:281Peter 4:16definition -Christian, a follower of Christ
Thanks Kriss! I learned another important lesson today.
I recall asking my pastor this question about what a Christian is on Monday night and I could have sworn I heard him say that the term is not found in the Bible. This place is sure turning out to be a blessing.
In retrospect I can't believe I made that mistake since the definitions of "Christian" that I quoted from both Eaton's and Unger's Bible dictionary actually says that the term is found in the Bible three times and then gives the three passages in which it is found (sigh!).God Bless :angel9
ete
Actually the word appears 3 times in the BibleActs 11:26 and 26:281Peter 4:16definition -Christian, a follower of Christ
Thanks Kriss! I learned another important lesson today.
eteAn interesting point to be made is that Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah and died on the cross. But they don't believe that he was raised from the dead. It is not clear from the Koran what the term "Messiah" means to a Muslim either. They never read the Bible either. Its a strange dichotomy that's for sure.Pete
(E Nomine;17887)
They do not believe that He is the messiah but believe that He was the highest prphet of God.
If you look in the Koran you will see Jesus referred to as "Jesus the Messiah, son of Mary." But they think of him as a prophet equal in rank to Moses etc. I.e. The Koran statesSurah 11:136 - We believe in the revelation made by Allah to Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, Moses and Jesus and all Prophets and we make no distinction between them.Pete
They do not believe that He is the messiah but believe that He was the highest prphet of God.
If you look in the Koran you will see Jesus referred to as "Jesus the Messiah, son of Mary." But they think of him as a prophet equal in rank to Moses etc. I.e. The Koran statesSurah 11:136 - We believe in the revelation made by Allah to Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, Moses and Jesus and all Prophets and we make no distinction between them.Pete
(pmb;17873)
An interesting point to be made is that Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah and died on the cross. But they don't believe that he was raised from the dead. It is not clear from the Koran what the term "Messiah" means to a Muslim either. They never read the Bible either. Its a strange dichotomy that's for sure.Pete
Their scriptures also say that Jesus will return.
An interesting point to be made is that Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah and died on the cross. But they don't believe that he was raised from the dead. It is not clear from the Koran what the term "Messiah" means to a Muslim either. They never read the Bible either. Its a strange dichotomy that's for sure.Pete
Their scriptures also say that Jesus will return.
(TallMan;17909)
Their scriptures also say that Jesus will return.
Yes as a helper to the 12th Iman they say Jesus will be saying Islam is the right religion
Their scriptures also say that Jesus will return.
Yes as a helper to the 12th Iman they say Jesus will be saying Islam is the right religion
(kriss;17911)
Yes as a helper to the 12th Iman they say Jesus will be saying Islam is the right religion
For my use, can you give chapter & verse for where the Koran says Jesus will return?
Yes as a helper to the 12th Iman they say Jesus will be saying Islam is the right religion
For my use, can you give chapter & verse for where the Koran says Jesus will return?
Here you go Tallman you might also what to check out the link for more information on their view of JesusIslam's prophet, Muhammad, believed Jesus was the Messiah, Allah's anointed messenger. Allah's people (Muslims) are told to listen to Allah's messengers (Koran, 4.171; 5. 111*). http://www.islam-101.org/The suttle part to catch here is Allah is not our God
(kriss;17920)
The suttle part to catch here is Allah is not our God
May I ask where you got that notion from ?? I'd have to strongly disagree with it. The term "Allah" is Arabic for "God". This is the same God of Abraham. The God of the Old and New Testament. Muslims trace their geneology back to Ishmael, son of Abraham. The God of Islam is truely the same God that Christians worship. If you disagree on this I recommend that you find an Islam discussion forum and ask a Muslim.I've read two boks on Islam so far and am currently reading a book on religion called Ways to the Center - Sixth Ed., byDenise L. Cormody & T.L. Brink, Thomas Advantage Books, (2006). The chapter on Islam starts on page 299 and in the very first paragraph states
Islam is an Arabic word that means "submission, surrender" (to the will of Allah, God). Muslim is another Arabic word, this one meaning "one who submits," in other words, a follower of Islam. Muslims understand this God to whom they are submitting to be the same God described in Genesis and to whom Jesus Prayed.
Pete
The suttle part to catch here is Allah is not our God
May I ask where you got that notion from ?? I'd have to strongly disagree with it. The term "Allah" is Arabic for "God". This is the same God of Abraham. The God of the Old and New Testament. Muslims trace their geneology back to Ishmael, son of Abraham. The God of Islam is truely the same God that Christians worship. If you disagree on this I recommend that you find an Islam discussion forum and ask a Muslim.I've read two boks on Islam so far and am currently reading a book on religion called Ways to the Center - Sixth Ed., byDenise L. Cormody & T.L. Brink, Thomas Advantage Books, (2006). The chapter on Islam starts on page 299 and in the very first paragraph states
Islam is an Arabic word that means "submission, surrender" (to the will of Allah, God). Muslim is another Arabic word, this one meaning "one who submits," in other words, a follower of Islam. Muslims understand this God to whom they are submitting to be the same God described in Genesis and to whom Jesus Prayed.
Pete
Then Pete, you've got so much to learn.
Then look at these topics.
Blasphemy Law PracticeJirad - Actions Speack louder than wordsMust Read - Christianity Vs Islam - False ProphetHow the Quran lied about Mary and Jesus Christ’s birth?And some of this topicDrink Ye of The Wine.P.S. Allah maybe be an arabic word for god, but I will ensure you that Allah can never be YHWH.Lovest thou in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
(thesuperjag;17931)
Then Pete, you've got so much to learn.
Let me make a point first: When someone disagrees with something someone else states, which was stated as a result of the other persons education and experience a particular subject, then that person will claim the other person has a lot to learn. When such an accusation is made then in most cases the person (who supposedly has a lot to learn) will, in many cases, respond "No. It is you who has a lot to learn." The argeument then proceeds in a cirle with each providing evidence that the other person probably has already discouted before the discussion began. As such commets of this nature are not useful and are actually unwanted. I would thank you to keep the "you've got so much to learn." comments to yourself. Plus I'm not about to change my opinion, which I gathered from my education on Islam which consisted of reading several books by authorities on the subject, over the last few years.
Then look at these topics.
Blasphemy Law Practice
That thread has absolutely nothing to do what I quoted above. Please explain what you thought I'd read there that should have changed my mind.
Jirad - Actions Speack louder than words
I don't see references to the Quran there. A lot of people who claim to be Muslims don't seem to have read the Quran cover to cover or have studied it closely. Many Muslims who have studied it closely will find a way to interpet it in a way that the Quran never meant. They will often take passages out of context or in a vacuum. I'd bet that the Muslims referred to in that link are such people. Just because a person follows a religion does not mean that person is well versed in the scripture of that religion. I'd wager that even many Christians haven't studied the Bible deeply.re - Allah says in these ayas that muslims are allowed to capture infidel women and to have sex with them.So what. The Old Testament says similar things. As I recall, an Israelite warrior, under certain conditions, could take one of the concurred females as their wives. I'll see if I can find the exact passage. Even so this says nothing which contradicts what I stated and quoted.The rest is too much to read when so far I've seen nothing you've provided which indicates that what is in the Quran is contrary to what I've stated/quoted.
P.S. Allah maybe be an arabic word for god, but I will ensure you that Allah can never be YHWH.
Mere accusation. Prove this claim please. I will only accept as proof something from the Quran, not some Muslims interpretation of it, whether they've even read it or not.For the record: I do not believe that the Quran is accurate and I believe that it holds many beliefs that are opposite to the Judeo-Christian beliefs. That said, it is a matter of pure fact that their God is identical to ours and that they believe that Jesus was the Messiah. What "Messiah" means to Islam is not the same as what the term means to Christians.Pete
Then Pete, you've got so much to learn.
Let me make a point first: When someone disagrees with something someone else states, which was stated as a result of the other persons education and experience a particular subject, then that person will claim the other person has a lot to learn. When such an accusation is made then in most cases the person (who supposedly has a lot to learn) will, in many cases, respond "No. It is you who has a lot to learn." The argeument then proceeds in a cirle with each providing evidence that the other person probably has already discouted before the discussion began. As such commets of this nature are not useful and are actually unwanted. I would thank you to keep the "you've got so much to learn." comments to yourself. Plus I'm not about to change my opinion, which I gathered from my education on Islam which consisted of reading several books by authorities on the subject, over the last few years.
Then look at these topics.
That thread has absolutely nothing to do what I quoted above. Please explain what you thought I'd read there that should have changed my mind.
Jirad - Actions Speack louder than words
I don't see references to the Quran there. A lot of people who claim to be Muslims don't seem to have read the Quran cover to cover or have studied it closely. Many Muslims who have studied it closely will find a way to interpet it in a way that the Quran never meant. They will often take passages out of context or in a vacuum. I'd bet that the Muslims referred to in that link are such people. Just because a person follows a religion does not mean that person is well versed in the scripture of that religion. I'd wager that even many Christians haven't studied the Bible deeply.re - Allah says in these ayas that muslims are allowed to capture infidel women and to have sex with them.So what. The Old Testament says similar things. As I recall, an Israelite warrior, under certain conditions, could take one of the concurred females as their wives. I'll see if I can find the exact passage. Even so this says nothing which contradicts what I stated and quoted.The rest is too much to read when so far I've seen nothing you've provided which indicates that what is in the Quran is contrary to what I've stated/quoted.
P.S. Allah maybe be an arabic word for god, but I will ensure you that Allah can never be YHWH.
Mere accusation. Prove this claim please. I will only accept as proof something from the Quran, not some Muslims interpretation of it, whether they've even read it or not.For the record: I do not believe that the Quran is accurate and I believe that it holds many beliefs that are opposite to the Judeo-Christian beliefs. That said, it is a matter of pure fact that their God is identical to ours and that they believe that Jesus was the Messiah. What "Messiah" means to Islam is not the same as what the term means to Christians.Pete
(pmb;17930)
May I ask where you got that notion from ?? I'd have to strongly disagree with it. The term "Allah" is Arabic for "God". This is the same God of Abraham. The God of the Old and New Testament. Muslims trace their geneology back to Ishmael, son of Abraham. The God of Islam is truely the same God that Christians worship. If you disagree on this I recommend that you find an Islam discussion forum and ask a Muslim.I've read two boks on Islam so far and am currently reading a book on religion called Ways to the Center - Sixth Ed., byDenise L. Cormody & T.L. Brink, Thomas Advantage Books, (2006). The chapter on Islam starts on page 299 and in the very first paragraph statesPete
Many have started following one God and turned to another I dont care what they call him he is not our God They claim to worship the one god so did millions of pagans throughout history the proofs in the pudding so to speak.If I suddenly decide to worship the moon because God created it and over time I elevate the moon over God (as they do mohammed) I'm guilty of worshiping a false god pretty soon I put eveything about the moon as how I live I no longer follow gods laws but the moons than I do not worship the God of the bible reguardless of what I claim. They worship a god who elevates Mohammad above Christ follow Mohammands laws not Gods. They do not worship our God . only a god
May I ask where you got that notion from ?? I'd have to strongly disagree with it. The term "Allah" is Arabic for "God". This is the same God of Abraham. The God of the Old and New Testament. Muslims trace their geneology back to Ishmael, son of Abraham. The God of Islam is truely the same God that Christians worship. If you disagree on this I recommend that you find an Islam discussion forum and ask a Muslim.I've read two boks on Islam so far and am currently reading a book on religion called Ways to the Center - Sixth Ed., byDenise L. Cormody & T.L. Brink, Thomas Advantage Books, (2006). The chapter on Islam starts on page 299 and in the very first paragraph statesPete
Many have started following one God and turned to another I dont care what they call him he is not our God They claim to worship the one god so did millions of pagans throughout history the proofs in the pudding so to speak.If I suddenly decide to worship the moon because God created it and over time I elevate the moon over God (as they do mohammed) I'm guilty of worshiping a false god pretty soon I put eveything about the moon as how I live I no longer follow gods laws but the moons than I do not worship the God of the bible reguardless of what I claim. They worship a god who elevates Mohammad above Christ follow Mohammands laws not Gods. They do not worship our God . only a god
(kriss;17934)
Many have started following one God and turned to another I dont care what they call him he is not our God.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion and it is not my place to try to change it. But I'm also entitled to my opinion too and that is what should be kept in my when you read my response below. Okay Kriss?
It really doesn't matter what we believe. It is Islam itself that holds that their God is identical to the God of the Judeo-Christian religions. They state that their God is the God of Abraham and the God the Jesus worship. That is kind of a definition of what God they worship and that is exactly the God that Jews and Christians worship. If a Christian believes that his God is different than theirs then that Christian must believe that he worships a God that is different to the God Jesus prayed to.
They claim to worship the one god so did millions of pagans throughout history the proofs in the pudding so to speak.
I don't understand this statement. Did these pagans worship the God of Abraham? Tell me Kriss - Do you believe that the God that Jews worship is different than the God we worship just because Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah?
If I suddenly decide to worship the moon because God created it and over time I elevate the moon over God (as they do mohammed) I'm guilty of worshiping a false god
Muslims worship the exact same God that we do. If you decided to worship the moon then you're going against Jews, Christians and Muslims. Why would someone worship the moon to begine with? Islam holds no parallel to this notion.
... pretty soon I put eveything about the moon as how I live I no longer follow gods laws but the moons than I do not worship the God of the bible reguardless of what I claim. They worship a god who elevates Mohammad above Christ ..
That is incorrect. Muslims do not hold Mohammed above Jesus. They merely believe that Mohammed is God's last prophet.
..follow Mohammands laws not Gods.
Whoa there! Where on Earth did you get that idea from?? It is a fundamental belief of Islam that they are following God's laws, not Mohammed's. All that Mohammed did, according to Islam, was to relay messages from God to the Arabs of that time. That is to say that God relayed messages to the angel Gabrial who told them to Mohammed who told them to others and those others recorded later. The Quran is a gathering of these records. To believe it was Mohammed that was the source of these Laws and not God is to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam.
They do not worship our God . only a god
That only means that your beliefs are different than a Muslims. I do not make any claim that the Quran is accurate. II don not believe in the religion of Islam. If you hold that Islam holds Mohammed above Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, Moses and Jesus and all Prophets then you're free to do so. But to convince me of it you'll have to provide a reference in the Quran to this effect. Jews worship the exact same God we do and yet Jews don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I'd never be the one to claim that Jews don't believe in the same God we do because of that fact.It is wise to understand exactly what Islam teaches so that people don't misunderstand it. Such misunderstanding has led American Christians to commit hate against peaceful American Muslims. That is certainly unwanted.ThanksPete
Many have started following one God and turned to another I dont care what they call him he is not our God.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion and it is not my place to try to change it. But I'm also entitled to my opinion too and that is what should be kept in my when you read my response below. Okay Kriss?
They claim to worship the one god so did millions of pagans throughout history the proofs in the pudding so to speak.
I don't understand this statement. Did these pagans worship the God of Abraham? Tell me Kriss - Do you believe that the God that Jews worship is different than the God we worship just because Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah?
If I suddenly decide to worship the moon because God created it and over time I elevate the moon over God (as they do mohammed) I'm guilty of worshiping a false god
Muslims worship the exact same God that we do. If you decided to worship the moon then you're going against Jews, Christians and Muslims. Why would someone worship the moon to begine with? Islam holds no parallel to this notion.
... pretty soon I put eveything about the moon as how I live I no longer follow gods laws but the moons than I do not worship the God of the bible reguardless of what I claim. They worship a god who elevates Mohammad above Christ ..
That is incorrect. Muslims do not hold Mohammed above Jesus. They merely believe that Mohammed is God's last prophet.
..follow Mohammands laws not Gods.
Whoa there! Where on Earth did you get that idea from?? It is a fundamental belief of Islam that they are following God's laws, not Mohammed's. All that Mohammed did, according to Islam, was to relay messages from God to the Arabs of that time. That is to say that God relayed messages to the angel Gabrial who told them to Mohammed who told them to others and those others recorded later. The Quran is a gathering of these records. To believe it was Mohammed that was the source of these Laws and not God is to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam.
They do not worship our God . only a god
That only means that your beliefs are different than a Muslims. I do not make any claim that the Quran is accurate. II don not believe in the religion of Islam. If you hold that Islam holds Mohammed above Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, Moses and Jesus and all Prophets then you're free to do so. But to convince me of it you'll have to provide a reference in the Quran to this effect. Jews worship the exact same God we do and yet Jews don't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I'd never be the one to claim that Jews don't believe in the same God we do because of that fact.It is wise to understand exactly what Islam teaches so that people don't misunderstand it. Such misunderstanding has led American Christians to commit hate against peaceful American Muslims. That is certainly unwanted.ThanksPete
You are missing the point if you say you worship God and then put other gods before himand break every one of his laws God himself says I never knew you. Its just lip service.You can claim anything its what God says that's matters.
And yes I believe the Jews worship our God they follow his laws of his word in Torah Muslims follow a man mohammed.
(kriss;17937)
You are missing the point if you say you worship God and then put other gods before him
What gave you the idea that this is what I believe???
You can claim anything its what God says that's matters.
Muslims truely believe that they are doing what God wants.Pete
You are missing the point if you say you worship God and then put other gods before him
What gave you the idea that this is what I believe???
You can claim anything its what God says that's matters.
Muslims truely believe that they are doing what God wants.Pete
I said if not to insinuate you didI agree they believe that but that dosent make it so. If they truly did they would follow his Word not mohammads word.
I agree they believe that but that dosent make it so. If they truly did they would follow his Word not mohammads word.Similar threads
