What is a soul.

[Renniks]

Yes! The punish-MENT for neglecting to repent towards God through faith in Jesus, will be eternal, but there will be no eternal punish-ING.
Again, please read and digest God's judgment for eternal life and eternal condemnation in KJV John 3:18 and Romans 8:8-9.

Neither of those verses address the form of punishment.? Don't see how you think they help your interpretation.

 

[Base12]

What did you want to think, that God is going to go about actually killing people's "soul and body" ??

Yes, however...

To be more specific, the Soul is more or less 'purified' and thus it may not be destroyed 100%. God can save whatever parts of the Soul he deems necessary to be useful for the next life. This is why many Children remember their past lives. It's not 'debil possession'.

This is what happened to Adam an Eve. Again, Christians are *told* that Reincarnation is not Biblical and so they can't see past the Lake of Fire and the incredibly beautiful lesson it teaches.

Adam and Eve passed *through* the fire of the Flaming Sword and Cherubim to be birthed as Human Beings like us.

Think of the Cherubim on the Veil of the Tabernacle. The Veil represents the Dimensional Barrier between us and God. It is a picture of a 'Portal' in the Space Time Continuum. We see the same thing in Ezekiel's Wheels and the 'Firmament' above their heads. The Firmament is the Sea of Glass and the Dimensional Barrier.

Once One is thrown into the Lake of Fire, they pass through the Veil to be born of the Tabernacle Ovum...

Thus, for the Unsaved, the Flaming Sword becomes the Portal Entrance while the Ark of the Covenant becomes the Portal Exit. It's a Wormhole in which the Worm dieth not...

 

[Earburner]

Why would I want them to be punished for eternity? It's not me that is being sinned against. I don't think God has to torment the wicked, but they will be tormented, because being where God isn't, is to be where no good thing exists. And they can't be where God is, as sin can't exist there. And the Bible is clear that they will not cease to exist.

If it doesn't bother you that they are being kept alive for that purpose of being tormented forever and ever, then you probably would allow an animal to be howling in anguish of pain, non stop at the door of your home for days on end.

Who is keeping the supposed condemnef alive?
No one has any form of eternal existence at all, unless it is from God!

 

[Base12]

Apparently you think that Adam and Eve had a pre-existence as a living soul in God's Spirit, before they became a living soul of flesh and blood.
Q. What did Moses, the writer, know about the Gaseous elements, concerning the invisible atomic structure of Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide, OXYGEN, etc.?
A. NOTHING!! Therefore, he called the AIR that we breathe, "the breath of life".
If Adam could've seen the jets and planes that fly in the AIR today, would he call them "huge birds"?
Yes, I believe so.

I believe that Scripture was authored by God and given to the Scribes to write down...

2 Peter 1:21
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"

Moses wrote down in pen what was already written before the Creation. Not only that, but Moses constructed the Tabernacle in the Wilderness according to exact specifications.

Did Moses know the intimate details of Cell Biology? I seriously doubt it, yet there it is...

 

[Earburner]

Is it possible that you may have more mercy than God, when it comes to a suffering animal, yet its OK if people suffer forever?

 

[FollowHim]

Here is a good study by my buddy Amo on what is a soul..
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

A soul is who we are, the living entity that expresses itself through our body.
Our spirit is our emotional and spiritual expression of our soul.

The souls of the executed saints in revelation 6

9 I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"
Rev 6:9-10

The spirit of a man

27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man; it searches out his inmost being
Prov 20:27

16 I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me- the breath of man that I have created.
Isaiah 57:16

11 The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1 Cor 2:11

 

[Earburner]

I believe that Scripture was authored by God and given to the Scribes to write down...

2 Peter 1:21
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"

Moses wrote down in pen what was already written before the Creation. Not only that, but Moses constructed the Tabernacle in the Wilderness according to exact specifications.

Did Moses know the intimate details of Cell Biology? I seriously doubt it, yet there it is...

Though I don't deny either of your illustrations, its your application that is skewed.
I suppose one can find numerous other ways to apply the illustration that Moses saw.

Maybe its just merely the operations of the organs of our physical bodies. Paul did make parrallel the members (hands, feet etc.) of our physical bodies, to be like that of each of us dwelling in Christ spiritually.

Paul referred to the physical body of Christ as being the "veil" for our acceptance by the Father, through the shedding of His own blood.
Heb. 10[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest [God's presence] by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way [of God's acceptance of us], which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
> I am not pretending to try and even understand that, never mind what your illustration is attempting to portray. I am just happy to know that we are accepted of the Father, through faith in Jesus, who risked it all, to be sacrificed for our salvation and redemption.

 

[Renniks]

If it doesn't bother you that they are being kept alive for that purpose of being tormented forever and ever, then you probably would allow an animal to be howling in anguish of pain, non stop at the door of your home for days on end.

Who is keeping the supposed condemnef alive?
No one has any form of eternal existence at all, unless it is from God!

What bothers me isn't relevant. I'm not the judge.

 

[Earburner]

What bothers me isn't relevant. I'm not the judge.

If you are not the judge, then you shouldn't even be speculating on the eternal state of "a living soul" .

However, because I do know that I have been given the authority to be an ambassador in Christ's stead, I have entered into His judgement (John 3:18) with Him, holding forth towards the unsaved, the gospel of His reconciliation.

Therefore of a truth, every man who has rejected, denied or neglected their opportunity to recieve God's Gift of His Eternal Life , through faith in Jesus, is "condemned already" to the death that they were formerly appointed to, and that is: they "shall surely DIE".

 

[Renniks]

If you are not the judge, then you shouldn't even be speculating on the eternal state of "a living soul" .

However, because I do know that I have been given the authority to be an ambassador in Christ's stead, I have entered into His judgement (John 3:18) with Him, holding forth towards the unsaved, the gospel of His reconciliation.

Therefore of a truth, every man who has rejected, denied or neglected their opportunity to recieve God's Gift of His Eternal Life , through faith in Jesus, is "condemned already" to the death that they were formerly appointed to, and that is: they "shall surely DIE".

Exactly, he that doesn't believe is condemned and will suffer the consequences, that is, eternal separation from God's love.

I shouldn't be speculating? Lol, I'm not speculating, I'm just repeating what the Word says. What I want is for everyone to repent and be saved and for hell to be empty. I believe God wants that too, but he also has set up the situation so that only those who believe on his Son will be saved. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Him.

 

[Earburner]

Here is the dilemma of most Christian thinking, of which they are so boxed in, they never do see the end of their conclusions:
Ezekiel 18[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1 John 3[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Renniks]

Here is the dilemma of most Christian thinking, of which they are so boxed in, they never do see the end of their conclusions:
Ezekiel 18[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1 John 3[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And what is this death?

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2 ESV)

• And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46 ESV)

• And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15 ESV). In verse 10, we are told that the Lake of Fire burns “forever and ever.”

 

[Earburner]

1. Exactly, he that doesn't believe is condemned and will suffer the consequences, that is, eternal separation from God's love.

2. I shouldn't be speculating? Lol, I'm not speculating, I'm just repeating what the Word says. What I want is for everyone to repent and be saved and for hell to be empty.
3. I believe God wants that too, but he also has set up the situation so that only those who believe on his Son will be saved.
4. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Him.

1. Yes! Death and destruction, aka perdition.
2. Years and years of speculation, is the cause of everyone's confusion of what "hell" is. Its nothing more than the grave, aka pit.
Hell for the unsaved, will never be emptied, and God has no intention of doing so!! However, all of such who are in them, are reserved unto destruction in the LoF.
2 Peter 3[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
See also 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and
Revelations 20:14-15
3. Yes! We are NOW in the Age of His Grace and Longsuffering (a thousand years). God wants everyone to come to repentance, before His Son returns in Glory and flaming fire from Heaven.
2 Peter 3:7-9.
4. I only have a problem with the misunderstanding in others, who are speculating about what "hell" is, through erroneous preconcieved thoughts, that have
run amuck in the churches for years.

 

[Renniks]

1. Yes! Death and destruction, aka perdition.
2. Years and years of speculation, is the cause of everyone's confusion of what "hell" is. Its nothing more than the grave, aka pit.
Hell for the unsaved, will never be emptied, and God has no intention of doing so!! However, all of such who are in them, are reserved unto destruction in the LoF.
2 Peter 3[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
See also 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and
Revelations 20:14-15
3. Yes! We are NOW in the Age of His Grace and Longsuffering (a thousand years). God wants everyone to come to repentance, before His Son returns in Glory and flaming fire from Heaven.
2 Peter 3:7-9.
4. I only have a problem with the misunderstanding in others, who are speculating about what "hell" is, through erroneous preconcieved thoughts, that have
run amuck in the churches for years.

Total annihilation just doesn't fit with what the Word says. If that is what you are trying to teach.

 

[Earburner]

1. And what is this death?

2. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2 ESV)

3. And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46 ESV)

4. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15 ESV). In verse 10, we are told that the Lake of Fire burns “forever and ever.”

1. Ans. Matthew 26[24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
> Equivalent to never having an existence.
2. Ever-lasting is the word here that describes the condition for both the saved and the unsaved.
Which is to say, that God's judgment of John 3:18, for however anyone decides, at death, is binding forever!
3. Again I re-emphasize, the word is:
eternal punish-ment, not eternal punish-ing. (KJV)
4. Yes! That would be everyone who does not believe in Christ. There will be no escapees!!

The LoF can only burn forever and ever, if God's Eternal consumming fire is keeping it going!!
But God is Love!
Now, since you may not ever see Hell, according to your thinking, for whose benefit shall God keep a hell burning forever? HImself??
But God is Love!!
Fire of itself cannot burn of itself, if there is no fuel.

 

[Earburner]

Total annihilation just doesn't fit with what the Word says. If that is what you are trying to teach.

So then, you believe that people have been given an eternally living soul.

 

[Earburner]

Total annihilation just doesn't fit with what the Word says. If that is what you are trying to teach.

Oh, and this also: Isaiah 55:8-9.
Are YOU teaching yourself what God's words mean, or is the Holy Spirit teaching you of what God means about HIS OWN words? John 16:13.

 

[Renniks]

1. Ans. Matthew 26[24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
> Equivalent to never having an existence.
2. Ever-lasting is the word here that describes the condition for both the saved and the unsaved.
Which is to say, that God's judgment of John 3:18, for however anyone decides, at death, is binding forever!
3. Again I re-emphasize, the word is:
eternal punish-ment, not eternal punish-ing. (KJV)
4. Yes! That would be everyone who does not believe in Christ. There will be no escapees!!

The LoF can only burn forever and ever, if God's Eternal consumming fire is keeping it going!!
But God is Love!
Now, since you may not ever see Hell, according to your thinking, for whose benefit shall God keep a hell burning forever? HImself??
But God is Love!!
Fire of itself cannot burn of itself, if there is no fuel.

I find it interesting that you take the LOF to be literal fire, but don't believe it literally lasts forever as scripture claims. I tend to take the fire as non literal but I can find no reason to believe the soul doesn't last forever when the Word says it does.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

I don't believe the "fire" whatever it is, is God's presence. I believe it is the natural state of a soul in his absence. When you stop to realize that every good thing comes from God, (James 1;17) it's not hard to understand that anyone who exists outside of God's presence, can not experience any comfort or love or anything but self. And self is empty without anything to relate to. That is the most probable torment of hell, IMO, total isolation, because no one there is capable or love or kindness, but I'm not dogmatic about it.

 

[Earburner]

1. I find it interesting that you take the LOF to be literal fire, but don't believe it literally lasts forever as scripture claims. I tend to take the fire as non literal but I can find no reason to believe the soul doesn't last forever when the Word says it does.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

2. I don't believe the "fire" whatever it is, is God's presence. I believe it is the natural state of a soul in his absence. When you stop to realize that every good thing comes from God, (James 1;17) it's not hard to understand that anyone who exists outside of God's presence, can not experience any comfort or love or anything but self. And self is empty without anything to relate to. That is the most probable torment of hell, IMO, total isolation, because no one there is capable or love or kindness, but I'm not dogmatic about it.

Yes! Their punishment is: Eternal destruction!! Which is saying, that they are destroyed, obliterated and/or vaporized without a trace FOREVER, as having never lived!!
9 who shall suffer punishment, [even] eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,...
2. Paul says that Jesus shall return IN flaming fire!!
And also in Heb. 12[29] For our God is a consuming fire.
What part of His Eternal fire don't you unnderstand??

His Fire destroys everything, including the heavens and the earth! It really will be a Lake of fire.
2Peter 3[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Earburner]

Q. Where are all the graves/hell of the unsaved found to be?
A. In the earth.

Q. When the Lord returns from Heaven, what effect will God's "all consuming fire" have on the earth and the works therein?
A. and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
> Of a truth, His Fire will consume everything!

Q. Where is death?
A. In the earth.
Q. Again, where are the graves/hell?
A. IN the earth.
Q. Will the graves/hell be on fire?
A. Yes, they are in the earth.

Q. What was cast into the Lake of fire?
A. Death and hell/the graves.
Q. Were they literally cast/thrown in the LoF?
A. Hell/the graves and death cannot move or escape, so they have no place to go, but be in the LoF, because upon His Glorious return, His flaming, all consuming Fire shall engulf the whole surface of the earth.