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To Richard:
I do not understand why you seem to have so much trouble 'getting' the difference between works that lead to salvation (that which does not exist) and works that come from salvation (that which the bible says comes from regeneration). We know the bible encourages it, because we see all the things Paul and Peter and the other NT authors write to Christian churches. Things on how to live and how to treat others after these people are already saved. These things are 'fruit' of a Christian life. It comes from our saved state, but does not cause it.
Let's use your example with your friends car. Obviously this friend is a wonderful person and a thoughtful friend to have. After such fantastic gestures such as lending the car, do you watch for the opportunity to help him back, or use his generosity to then help others? If you don't, then all you have is a Homer Simpson/Ned Flanders type relationship...where Homer takes and takes and shows no appreciation at all.
When we become saved (so it's already a done deal through faith in Christ, his grace alone) this regeneration of our old selves leads to a desire to out-pour this generosity and mercy given to us. It in no way effects our salvation or earns it...we don't need to do it, but we get to! We get to show Christ's love for us to others. We get to, in our own, meagre, pathetic, inadequate, unworthy way, try and make our heavenly father pleased with us. Not to earn his love, but because we already have it.
I suppose it is because works do not lead to salvation unless it is faith in the work that Jesus has already accomplished on the cross.
It looks to me that you feel you have to pay God back to satisfy your fleshly desire to save yourself by what you do. It is that same feeling during Christmas when you recieve a gift you feel you have to give one in return. That makes a gift a purchased item. The work for the child of God under grace is to teach the gospel of grace so that more people can see it and place their faith in it. For everyone that comes to God because you have given them the message of God's grace is a fruit that you have produced for God. God has already said your works for salvation are as filthy as dirty rags.
Good writing but is it the truth? According to my Bible scrriptures we are accounted righteous before God, not by what we do to be righteous but by His righteousness imputed on our account. WE should be testifing as to His righteousness, not our own.
When you use "faith without works is dead" as your source for teaching salvation then you are saying that unless you have works you are not a child of God and then turn around and say that works have nothing to do with it. That sound like a contradiction to me. I thought Jesus was our judge! He determines who is and who isn't baring fruit for Him.
But the religious think that trying not to commit sin in the flesh is a fruit. Fruit for who???
Faith= Fearlessness
Not commiting sin in the flesh is a by-product of walking with Jesus. We are not seeking to not sin per se....we are seeking to walk with God in the Spirit. Anyone can claim a doctrinal salvation based on something they read...most will do this. But they still don't know Jesus or the type of life He gives to those who have surrendered their lives to Him. To use the mind to formulate a religious notion of salvation from reading verses is powerless to put the old sin nature to death and cause a new life to spring up. So I believe you when you say that your type of belief has no power over the flesh. It is made up from yourself...so you are still limited to yourself.
I disagree, according toi the dictionary Faith means;
Faith = to trust in, unquestioning belief, anything believed, complete trust, confidence, reliance,
See "belief", "trust", "confidence"
We are saved because we believe, have faith in, trust in, confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile us to God; we believe His promises.
So if a person wants to place their faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross to save them that is not enought under your theology, right? Faith in what Jesus did on the cross does not save a person and does not meet you idea of salvation, right?
That means that those who are honest with God and know that they still sin in the flesh will not be saved, right?
Exactly...WE are not the final arbiters of salvation...God is. HE has mercy on whomever He wishes. Man does not have the power to become whatever he believes he is. No man can justify himself before God for any work he may have done or any belief he may entertain . You are simply exchanging self-righteousness by works for a self-righteousness through your own beliefs. This is also called self-delusion. Beliefs are not greater than works. If I believe a rock is moved without moving it..then I am in the realm of fiction. Have you ever tried just believing your way through a day of work without actually going to work? Would you still get real money for doing pretend work? So the gospel is about reality and truth. When we truly have the power to walk as Jeus walked THEN we can hope to live with Him as His Bride in the next age.
Belief in the promises of God in Jesus Christ is much greater than the works of men. According to the scriptures it is our faith in Jesus that overcomes the world, not our works. But you don't seem to want to believe it.
Belief in the promises of God IS a work of man. The devil believes in the promises of God too. Now that his time is short he is working overtime on the church....and he's doing a pretty efficient job of it too!
I suppose it is because works do not lead to salvation unless it is faith in the work that Jesus has already accomplished on the cross.
It looks to me that you feel you have to pay God back to satisfy your fleshly desire to save yourself by what you do. It is that same feeling during Christmas when you recieve a gift you feel you have to give one in return. That makes a gift a purchased item. The work for the child of God under grace is to teach the gospel of grace so that more people can see it and place their faith in it. For everyone that comes to God because you have given them the message of God's grace is a fruit that you have produced for God. God has already said your works for salvation are as filthy as dirty rags.
Good writing but is it the truth? According to my Bible scrriptures we are accounted righteous before God, not by what we do to be righteous but by His righteousness imputed on our account. WE should be testifing as to His righteousness, not our own.
When you use "faith without works is dead" as your source for teaching salvation then you are saying that unless you have works you are not a child of God and then turn around and say that works have nothing to do with it. That sound like a contradiction to me. I thought Jesus was our judge! He determines who is and who isn't baring fruit for Him.
But the religious think that trying not to commit sin in the flesh is a fruit. Fruit for who??? Is it their payment for their salvation?