What is Faith

[Zachariah]

I thought I would take the time to share my perspective on Faith and what I know and understand to be true. Faith like all aspects and characteristics of god is of unseen nature. Like the wind itself, we can feel it and know its there, but we cannot see or comprehend what it is. Light is another example of unseen nature and is present all around us yet we cant see it.

There is much symboligy and imagery throughout the bible depicting Faith. Trying to describe and understand something of unseen nature can become tricky hence the reason for this post. In hope to spread some light on the matter im going to refer to the famous "Jesus Walks On Water" script from the gospel of Matthew 14:22.

To interpret this story correctly, we need to understand the three aspects apon which this story is built.

1. The fear of loss (Lack of Faith).
2. The water.
3. The walking on water (Faith).

Like the Bible itself is written to repeat itself, I am going to run a parralell story of my own making. One of which we can relate to, reflect apon, see the similarity in and extract the truth in its natural process.

Aspect one, the fear of loss.

In the story of Jesus, Simon and the desciples are in their boat fighting the torrential waves of the ocean. Naturally they would be in a place of fearing for their own lives and becoming a victim of the waters.

In my story, you have just entered a disco. There are hundreds of people you know along with people you don't like. Your friend asks you to come dance with them up on the front stage. You lack in self confidence and start to experience a fear of embarrassment or, a fear of loss.

Aspect two, the water.

Its crucial in this story, and many others within the bible to understand the symboligy behind water. In the first story of Jesus, the torrential water means potential physicle death for the desciples. They fear the water because the water means death. Water = Death
Now my story is different but in truth it is the same. The fear of loss we are experiencing at the thought of dancing in front of hundreds of people is a fear of embarrassment, or as I like to put it, shame. Shame, along with a few other emotions is spiritual death. I'm sure we have all heard the term "dying with embarresment".

So here we have water being symbolic for physicle death on the outside world and shame being of spiritual death on the inside world. Water = Death = Shame
These three things need to be seen as the same thing. Why? Because when we look for the difference in things, they become fragmented and fight amongst themselves each aposing the other. But when we look for the similarities in things, they come together, they harmonise and become whole. And when we learn to bring things together we find the preciouse truth.

Aspect three, walking on water (faith)

Now in the story with jesus, Simon Peter walks out apon the water avoiding death. He is walking on death itself. Simon, for a moment, let's go of his fear of loss and his physicle life completely and begins to walk on the water.

Now faith, being something of unseen nature, becomes challenging in terms of teaching, as faith is from within and is also separate from the laws of our physicle seen nature. This is why the bible paints us a picture that we can understand in a physicle sence.

In my story your about to step up onto a stage and your trembeling with a fear of loss or in this case to be precise, a fear of shame. Your best friend has his or her hand out, encouraging you to come on the stage telling you its all going to be ok, sound familiar? You let go of your fear completely and start to dance. It feels free as you float around like the unseen wind of the sky. You have overcome your fear. You have successfuly let go of who you are and what people think of you. You are walking on shame and self consiousness. You are walking on water. You are a reflection of Gods nature like light reflecting off the water.

I want to reariterate that truth is unseen and comes from within. If we fixate ourself on the "litteral" "seen" aspect of the story with Jesus we are missing the truth. Therefore if you believe people can walk on water, you have fallen victim to your seen aspect of reality. So remember...

Jn 20:29: "Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”"

Seek similarity in  all things, there you will find inner truth.

 

[Enoch111]

Faith like all aspects and characteristics of god is of unseen nature.

Why not keep it simple? Faith is both belief and trust. We are talking about faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ. That faith is generated from the Word of God itself (Rom 10:17).

 

[Zachariah]

Faith is nothing like belief. Belief is hard like stone, is hard moving and is of seen nature and the ego. Faith is soft, easy moving, of unseen nature and God. Belief is of man, it creates difference, destruction and fragmentation of truth. Faith is of God, you cannot see it nor hold it with your interlect.

These two things are very opposite.

Trust is like faith yes.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I thought I would take the time to share my perspective on Faith and what I know and understand to be true. Faith like all aspects and characteristics of god is of unseen nature. Like the wind itself, we can feel it and know its there, but we cannot see or comprehend what it is. Light is another example of unseen nature and is present all around us yet we cant see it.

There is much symboligy and imagery throughout the bible depicting Faith. Trying to describe and understand something of unseen nature can become tricky hence the reason for this post. In hope to spread some light on the matter im going to refer to the famous "Jesus Walks On Water" script from the gospel of Matthew 14:22.

To interpret this story correctly, we need to understand the three aspects apon which this story is built.

1. The fear of loss (Lack of Faith).
2. The water.
3. The walking on water (Faith).

Like the Bible itself is written to repeat itself, I am going to run a parralell story of my own making. One of which we can relate to, reflect apon, see the similarity in and extract the truth in its natural process.

Aspect one, the fear of loss.

In the story of Jesus, Simon and the desciples are in their boat fighting the torrential waves of the ocean. Naturally they would be in a place of fearing for their own lives and becoming a victim of the waters.

In my story, you have just entered a disco. There are hundreds of people you know along with people you don't like. Your friend asks you to come dance with them up on the front stage. You lack in self confidence and start to experience a fear of embarrassment or, a fear of loss.

Aspect two, the water.

Its crucial in this story, and many others within the bible to understand the symboligy behind water. In the first story of Jesus, the torrential water means potential physicle death for the desciples. They fear the water because the water means death. Water = Death
Now my story is different but in truth it is the same. The fear of loss we are experiencing at the thought of dancing in front of hundreds of people is a fear of embarrassment, or as I like to put it, shame. Shame, along with a few other emotions is spiritual death. I'm sure we have all heard the term "dying with embarresment".

So here we have water being symbolic for physicle death on the outside world and shame being of spiritual death on the inside world. Water = Death = Shame
These three things need to be seen as the same thing. Why? Because when we look for the difference in things, they become fragmented and fight amongst themselves each aposing the other. But when we look for the similarities in things, they come together, they harmonise and become whole. And when we learn to bring things together we find the preciouse truth.

Aspect three, walking on water (faith)

Now in the story with jesus, Simon Peter walks out apon the water avoiding death. He is walking on death itself. Simon, for a moment, let's go of his fear of loss and his physicle life completely and begins to walk on the water.

Now faith, being something of unseen nature, becomes challenging in terms of teaching, as faith is from within and is also separate from the laws of our physicle seen nature. This is why the bible paints us a picture that we can understand in a physicle sence.

In my story your about to step up onto a stage and your trembeling with a fear of loss or in this case to be precise, a fear of shame. Your best friend has his or her hand out, encouraging you to come on the stage telling you its all going to be ok, sound familiar? You let go of your fear completely and start to dance. It feels free as you float around like the unseen wind of the sky. You have overcome your fear. You have successfuly let go of who you are and what people think of you. You are walking on shame and self consiousness. You are walking on water. You are a reflection of Gods nature like light reflecting off the water.

I want to reariterate that truth is unseen and comes from within. If we fixate ourself on the "litteral" "seen" aspect of the story with Jesus we are missing the truth. Therefore if you believe people can walk on water, you have fallen victim to your seen aspect of reality. So remember...

Jn 20:29: "Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”"

Seek similarity in  all things, there you will find inner truth.

No doubt many will answer this way, as the Bible actually defines faith at Heb 11:1. I might add however that faith must be accurate, as many believe things, yet the things they might believe might not be true. Take for example those whom Jesus rejected at Mat 7:21-23 who had great faith and did great works in harmony with that faith, but Jesus revealed their faith was not in line with Jehovah's will.

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. Their faith was in their works for salvation and was not in Christ alone. They did not do the will of the Father unto salvation. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[Zachariah]

It becoms tricky because in our present time, we seem to be deal with three different understanding of faith.

What i would call raw faith, which is a reflection of gods nature, is unseen and one we use to rise above self conciousness (walk on water).

Another which I would call ignorant faith. Which is the belief that faith is a form of belief which is completely un true.

And then we have an understanding that seems to be a mixture of the last two put together in what we would see as religious faith. One would say "this is my faith" containing a belief system with faith in trusting it.

 

[Zachariah]

This post i was refering to natural or raw faith.

 

[Jim B]

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." NRSVue

Why does this need further definition?

 

[Zachariah]

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." NRSVue

Why does this need further definition?

I encourage you to go and brows the forum, and take a good look at all the post subjects and some of the "other" subjects people are talking about.

This is a bible study thread. This is my study.

 

[Johann]

I thought I would take the time to share my perspective on Faith and what I know and understand to be true. Faith like all aspects and characteristics of god is of unseen nature. Like the wind itself, we can feel it and know its there, but we cannot see or comprehend what it is. Light is another example of unseen nature and is present all around us yet we cant see it.

There is much symboligy and imagery throughout the bible depicting Faith. Trying to describe and understand something of unseen nature can become tricky hence the reason for this post. In hope to spread some light on the matter im going to refer to the famous "Jesus Walks On Water" script from the gospel of Matthew 14:22.

To interpret this story correctly, we need to understand the three aspects apon which this story is built.

1. The fear of loss (Lack of Faith).
2. The water.
3. The walking on water (Faith).

Like the Bible itself is written to repeat itself, I am going to run a parralell story of my own making. One of which we can relate to, reflect apon, see the similarity in and extract the truth in its natural process.

Aspect one, the fear of loss.

In the story of Jesus, Simon and the desciples are in their boat fighting the torrential waves of the ocean. Naturally they would be in a place of fearing for their own lives and becoming a victim of the waters.

In my story, you have just entered a disco. There are hundreds of people you know along with people you don't like. Your friend asks you to come dance with them up on the front stage. You lack in self confidence and start to experience a fear of embarrassment or, a fear of loss.

Aspect two, the water.

Its crucial in this story, and many others within the bible to understand the symboligy behind water. In the first story of Jesus, the torrential water means potential physicle death for the desciples. They fear the water because the water means death. Water = Death
Now my story is different but in truth it is the same. The fear of loss we are experiencing at the thought of dancing in front of hundreds of people is a fear of embarrassment, or as I like to put it, shame. Shame, along with a few other emotions is spiritual death. I'm sure we have all heard the term "dying with embarresment".

So here we have water being symbolic for physicle death on the outside world and shame being of spiritual death on the inside world. Water = Death = Shame
These three things need to be seen as the same thing. Why? Because when we look for the difference in things, they become fragmented and fight amongst themselves each aposing the other. But when we look for the similarities in things, they come together, they harmonise and become whole. And when we learn to bring things together we find the preciouse truth.

Aspect three, walking on water (faith)

Now in the story with jesus, Simon Peter walks out apon the water avoiding death. He is walking on death itself. Simon, for a moment, let's go of his fear of loss and his physicle life completely and begins to walk on the water.

Now faith, being something of unseen nature, becomes challenging in terms of teaching, as faith is from within and is also separate from the laws of our physicle seen nature. This is why the bible paints us a picture that we can understand in a physicle sence.

In my story your about to step up onto a stage and your trembeling with a fear of loss or in this case to be precise, a fear of shame. Your best friend has his or her hand out, encouraging you to come on the stage telling you its all going to be ok, sound familiar? You let go of your fear completely and start to dance. It feels free as you float around like the unseen wind of the sky. You have overcome your fear. You have successfuly let go of who you are and what people think of you. You are walking on shame and self consiousness. You are walking on water. You are a reflection of Gods nature like light reflecting off the water.

I want to reariterate that truth is unseen and comes from within. If we fixate ourself on the "litteral" "seen" aspect of the story with Jesus we are missing the truth. Therefore if you believe people can walk on water, you have fallen victim to your seen aspect of reality. So remember...

Jn 20:29: "Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”"

Seek similarity in  all things, there you will find inner truth.

So, according to you, the truth will "piss" you off--and then set you free?

 

[Zachariah]

So, according to you, the truth will "piss" you off--and then set you free?

Most of the time. The prosses of receiving truth can become complicated when dealing with belief and the ego, or our (Adam) state of man. Look at the pharasee for example when jesus aproached them with truth. When truth is at conflict with belief, the ego becomes defensive and hard hearted. It becomes reactive and protective of itself. This protective state was briefly explained in this post as a "Fear of loss".

 

[Zachariah]

When we study the bible from the right perspective we learn these things about ourself and is the essence of all truth.

So within, So without.

Meaning if we understand ourself, we understand God and the universe around us. The way we feel is the nature in which things work.

 

[Jim B]

I encourage you to go and brows the forum, and take a good look at all the post subjects and some of the "other" subjects people are talking about.

This is a bible study thread. This is my study.

You don't own this thread. If you want privacy then PM.

 

[Jim B]

Most of the time. The prosses of receiving truth can become complicated when dealing with belief and the ego, or our (Adam) state of man. Look at the pharasee for example when jesus aproached them with truth. When truth is at conflict with belief, the ego becomes defensive and hard hearted. It becomes reactive and protective of itself. This protective state was briefly explained in this post as a "Fear of loss".

You should know!

 

[Zachariah]

You should know!

Its nice to see that you navigated my content just to bring it back it spite. Well done. Through your immaturity you managed to read something that mite be of good use for you. There is hope after all.

Blessed are the stupid, for they will bring life to themselves in this way.

 

[Jim B]

Its nice to see that you navigated my content just to bring it back it spite. Well done. Through your immaturity you managed to read something that mite be of good use for you. There is hope after all.

Blessed are the stupid, for they will bring life to themselves in this way.

Well, at least I'm literate.

 

[Ghada]

Why not keep it simple? Faith is both belief and trust. We are talking about faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is true, and so you've missed half of what faith is to God: Doing. Believing and trusting alone is the same as faith alone.

In Heb 11, faith is not just the hope alone, but His faith is also the substance of things hoped for. Faith is the doing of it.

Some men judge faith only by what they believe and think. But God judges faith by what we do. The faith of man can be without works, and God calls it dead faith being alone in the mind only.

The God of the Bible defines what faith is, and He defines faith as both hope and substance, both belief and works. God is the One who defines all things, including faith, and so it is by His own definition of faith, that He judges all other kinds of faith of angels and men.

In James 2, God defines any faith without works as vain and foolish imagination only. It's as dead as believing we can sprout wings and fly with the birds. It's a nonstarter with God, and in James 2, also with serious sober-minded people.

That faith is generated from the Word of God itself (Rom 10:17).

This is true, but at this point it is hearing only and can save no man. The parable of the Sower shows that faith is sown in the hearts of all hearers. In Romans 10, Paul is only pointing out the obvious, that faith comes by hearing. It comes to all hearers alike without respect of persons. It's simple natural mechanics of knowing about something because we hear about it. It's only having knowledge of something when we hear it. Whether we act upon it is up to us and is all important with God. If we don't do His word when we heart it, then it is useless knowledge only. Faith alone by hearing is knowledge only.

Some hear and dismiss the gospel as foolishness. They are purposed unbelievers and rejectors of God's word. Others hear and only agree with the truth of the gospel, but don't repent and obey it. They are unsaved believers that are hearers only. Only those that hear and do the word unto the end are the chosen elect, that are saved, sanctified, and justified by Christ. They are the honest and good hearts that hear and keep doing the will of God.

The faith of the gospel is generated in all hearers by the Sower. But only them doing the word of faith generate the seed unto good fruits of his righteousness. And since this has to do with the quick and powerful Spirit of Christ, unlike natural seed, that generating of root and fruit is instantly, whenever it is sown in honest and good hearts by hearing.

The word sown does not make the ground honest and good in time, and then produce fruits in more time. It is an honest and good heart that the seed is sown, and immediately produces repentance and obedience to God.

 

[Ghada]

I thought I would take the time to share my perspective on Faith and what I know and understand to be true. Faith like all aspects and characteristics of god is of unseen nature. Like the wind itself, we can feel it and know its there, but we cannot see or comprehend what it is. Light is another example of unseen nature and is present all around us yet we cant see it.

You are describing a faith that is of a spiritual nature, but does not fulfill the Bible definition of faith. In Heb 11, faith is not just the hope unseen, but God defines faith also as the substance of that hope. Bible faith is defined as what we believe and do about it. Not just what we believe.

For your analogy to fit Bible faith, we must say faith is both the light and the shining of the light, the wind and the blowing of the wind.

Bible faith is both the believing and the doing, having the faith and and doing the works. A non-shining light and dead wind is nothing to God nor man.

I want to reariterate that truth is unseen and comes from within. If we fixate ourself on the "litteral" "seen" aspect of the story with Jesus we are missing the truth.

Once again, this is an effort to spiritualize faith, and make the doing of it secondary at best, or even unnecessary.

It's because Jesus did these works, that men were willing to hear His faith.

Therefore if you believe people can walk on water, you have fallen victim to your seen aspect of reality.

And so we see hear an unbelief based upon trying to make faith all inner, with no necessary importance on the outer.

We know both Jesus and Peter walked on water, because God says so in the Bible. If we have not heard nor seen of other believers doing so, then that does not mean it has not happened.

We also read of Jesus and Peter and Paul raising the dead back to life, as well as healing many of the sick and casting out demons.

The news of the lame man walking spread like wildfire, and Peter used the opportunity to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. They only listened because of the work of faith done.

Jesus Himself was sent away from the temple to remain with His parents, until He had grown and done enough working by faith to be held in high honor among men, as well as God. (Luke 2:52)

Jn 20:29: "Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”"

This is without seeing Jesus physically after His resurrection. It is not without seeing His works done in the Bible. Now is it without seeing His works done by His witnesses.

The reason Jesus Christ came in the flesh is to do the works of God that prove the faith of the God of Israel is indeed the faith that heals, saves, and justifies man.

Seek similarity in  all things, there you will find inner truth.

I know that this is the result of much study and efforts to write it comprehensibly as possible. However, you've chanced into philosophic analysis here, rather than sure Bible knowledge. This has the ring of Buddhist harmony of all things.

 

[Johann]

You are describing a faith that is of a spiritual nature, but does not fulfill the Bible definition of faith. In Heb 11, faith is not just the hope unseen, but God defines faith also as the substance of that hope. Bible faith is defined as what we believe and do about it. Not just what we believe.

For your analogy to fit Bible faith, we must say faith is both the light and the shining of the light, the wind and the blowing of the wind.

Bible faith is both the believing and the doing, having the faith and and doing the works. A non-shining light and dead wind is nothing to God nor man.


Once again, this is an effort to spiritualize faith, and make the doing of it secondary at best, or even unnecessary.

It's because Jesus did these works, that men were willing to hear His faith.


And so we see hear an unbelief based upon trying to make faith all inner, with no necessary importance on the outer.

We know both Jesus and Peter walked on water, because God says so in the Bible. If we have not heard nor seen of other believers doing so, then that does not mean it has not happened.

We also read of Jesus and Peter and Paul raising the dead back to life, as well as healing many of the sick and casting out demons.

The news of the lame man walking spread like wildfire, and Peter used the opportunity to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. They only listened because of the work of faith done.

Jesus Himself was sent away from the temple to remain with His parents, until He had grown and done enough working by faith to be held in high honor among men, as well as God. (Luke 2:52)

This is without seeing Jesus physically after His resurrection. It is not without seeing His works done in the Bible. Now is it without seeing His works done by His witnesses.

The reason Jesus Christ came in the flesh is to do the works of God that prove the faith of the God of Israel is indeed the faith that heals, saves, and justifies man.


I know that this is the result of much study and efforts to write it comprehensibly as possible. However, you've chanced into philosophic analysis here, rather than sure Bible knowledge. This has the ring of Buddhist harmony of all things.

You are on the right path re practical Christianity-walk your talk, not talk your walk-but like many others-you are sinlessly perfect-a state that not even Paul arrived at.
One extreme to the other.
J.

 

[Ghada]

You are on the right path re practical Christianity-walk your talk, not talk your walk-but like many others-you are sinlessly perfect-a state that not even Paul arrived at.

You're definition of sinlessly perfect in this lie is not the Bible definition by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Bible definition of sinlessly perfect in this life is the example of Jesus to be tempted without sinning. That is the walk we ought to walk. Like Jesus we ought to endure temptation without doing it.

Sinlessly perfect in heaven as God on the throne, is to not even be tempted. (James 1)

If you are applying the sinless perfection of God on the throne to men in this life, then Jesus was the biggest of sinners, because He was tempted in all points.

Some Christians also teach Paul was the chiefest of sinners. Some people will believe and say anything to justify their own sinning, rather than just repent and walk as Jesus walked.

One extreme to the other.
J.

The two extremes in Christianity are being saved by faith without works, or being justified by works without faith. Paul rebukes one, James rebukes the other.