What Is Love?

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aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Is love the same thing as telling another person about Jesus?
Is love telling a homosexual that their behavior is dangerous to their eternal salvation?
Is love the same as being 'nice'?
How do we love our neighbors as ourselves?

Peace
 

a3m24ie

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Oct 10, 2010
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yes
yes
no
by loving (respecting) ourselves first, then treating others with that same love

I switched up the two first questions...

Is HATE the same thing as NOT telling another person about Jesus?
Is HATE NOT telling a homosexual that their behavior is dangerous to their eternal salvation?
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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[sup]
[sup]No and No[/sup]
[sup]
Paul seems to make a distinction between sharing the gospel and love - how do you explain this distinction?

Philippians 1:16-18
[/sup]16[/sup]The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. [sup]17[/sup]The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[sup][a][/sup] [sup]18[/sup]But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.


Peace

I tend to believe that speaking the truth in anger or hatred or really anything but love can cause a great deal of damage.
 

a3m24ie

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Oct 10, 2010
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[sup]
[sup]No and No[/sup]
[sup]
Paul seems to make a distinction between sharing the gospel and love - how do you explain this distinction?

Philippians 1:16-18
[/sup]16[/sup]The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. [sup]17[/sup]The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[sup][a][/sup] [sup]18[/sup]But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.


Peace

I tend to believe that speaking the truth in anger or hatred or really anything but love can cause a great deal of damage.


I believe speaking the truth in anything but love is damaging too.... but how can you call it love if you don't warn someone of their destruction? Jesus Himself preached "repent or perish" numerous times... He did it in love, but he wasn't fluffy about it. He was very clear and to the point with them. To the woman almost stoned he says "I do not condemn you, now go and SIN NO MORE" and to others "Quit sinning or something worse will happen to you"

Therefore, I think it is showing love by telling the truth (in love) and hatred toward someone if we are just nice to them and refuse to share the truth. If I was about to jump out of a plane with a backpack on instead of a parachute and you knew it, what sort of love would that be if you let me jump to my death without telling me I was wrong? That's hatred to know someone is going to die and know how to save them but not tell them.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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All I am saying is that the truth has to be presented in love. We cannot fool ourselves that very act of sharing information about Jesus is love because if we do it invites arrogance and can lead to causing more damage than good. Clubbing someone over the head with the truth is sort of like rushing into a bank that is being held up by robbers who happen to be holding hostages - getting the robbers is the right thing to do, but tact and caution is necessary to save the hostages.

There is one disturbing thing you mentioned in your post - suggesting that using tact is 'fluffy' - I am not sure why some Christians promote the idea that using tact or social skills when witnessing is fluffy? It seems to be apart of the same mindset as telling people they are whining when they point out that they are being mistreated and the current trend among conservative female politicians - telling their liberal male challengers to 'man up'. I think it is base and displays a serious lack of perspective taking skills - the foundation of empathy / love / forgiveness.

If we are serious about promoting a saving relationship with Christ - we will drop the mindset of trying to be right and winning our logical, doctrinal arguments. The heart, anchored by doctrine is what leads people to Christ - yet we continue to remain stuck in reason and doctrine, while forsaking the heart - sorry if this sounds fluffy - it is the truth.

Peace

[font="tahoma][size="2"]If I was about to jump out of a plane with a backpack on instead of a parachute and you knew it, what sort of love would that be if you let me jump to my death without telling me I was wrong? That's hatred to know someone is going to die and know how to save them but not tell them. [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]
[/size][/font]

[font="tahoma][size="2"]Great analogy. Here is the common conservative Christian approach to this situation:[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]1. Let the person know that they are an incompetent skydiver and instead of packing their parachute in the same way you packed yours, they decided to do it their own way and now they are going to die [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]2. When the person becomes defensive, let them know that they are being arrogant, speak down to the person by quoting the 'how to pack a parachute' manual and use sarcasm to discredit their point of view (if they are going to kill themselves fine, but make sure no one else listens to their false teachings)[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]3. When the person becomes angry tell them that they are whining and invite them to do as they will - make sure you add a parting remark from the manual that supports your position and then tell them that you will pray for them to realize their error.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]In my opinion, this approach to witnessing is about as effective as kicking the person out the open door.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]Now, if you already have a relationship built on mutual respect:[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]1. You could say, hey, I am worried that you may have missed something when you packed you parachute this morning - would you mind taking a look? I care about you and would not want anything to happen to you.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]2. If the person is defensive - say well, I respect you as a skydiver, but this is a risky sport and we all make mistakes - I would feel a lot better knowing that you were safe.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]3. If pride gets in the way and the person gets angry say - you are not acting like the person I know - is there something else going on or have I offended you? Lets talk about this before making any decisions to jump.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]Now, I am not claiming that having a relationship with the person is a guarantee against jumping, but it sure helps the person to come towards you rather than towards the door. [/size][/font]
 

a3m24ie

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[font="tahoma][size="2"]I guess what I mean by "fluffy" is that we can't go around making people feel comfortable ALL the time, sugar-coating the gospel to make it more appealing--I think we both 100% agree about loving someone is important. And the tone of how you present the truth is SO important. But I guess where I have a passion is when people don't tell the truth at all... they just say "Jesus loves you just the way you are" and not including God's justice/judgement against the unrighteous--despite how much He loves them. If we don't include God's justice against sin then how will they ever know to change? That's all :) And I'm pretty sure we agree... sometimes things get lost in these posts when we pick out things about each others' posts (I myself included, not trying to point fingers). But I think it's good to clarify and correct each other through use of the Word :) It sharpens us!


[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]In my opinion, this approach to witnessing is about as effective as kicking the person out the open door.
[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="3"][/size][/font]I agree! But I think you may have misnamed the catagory.. instead of "conservative Christians" maybe the "Pharisee-like 'Christians'" ? Just a thought.

If I was about to jump out of a plane with a backpack on instead of a parachute and you knew it, what sort of love would that be if you let me jump to my death without telling me I was wrong? That's hatred to know someone is going to die and know how to save them but not tell them.


I guess with my analogy I would have said:

1. Hey (insert person's name), did you realize that that's a backpack and not a parachute? You have been deceived. It looks like a parachute, it feels like a parachute, but it's not. It's not going to save you, in fact, you are going to die if you don't make the switch to the True parachute and put it to practice.
2. If they are defensive or angry - Hey, I'm just looking out for you, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that that's a false parachute--it's a backpack. There's nothing in it that can save you. Just think about checking it out before you go free falling-- because we're all jumping out of this plane eventually.. so just know whether you're going to land safely or if you'll crash to your death.

And in the real world we won't know whether we are the first person, second, 20th person who has told them the Truth... but we must tell them because the more times they hear that they are wearing a backpack, the more curious they are going to be about unzipping it to make sure before they die.


And last little thing: When you said....

"you are not acting like the person I know - is there something else going on or have I offended you?" -- just remember that the Bible says that the gospel WILL be offensive to the world... the world will hate us and our message--not even necessarily because of HOW we presented it, but just the sheer nature of the message! God is NOT okay with sin, and we can't love God and Sin. God spits out the lukewarm... Narrow is the road that leads to heaven and few will find it, but wide is the road that leads to destruction... Many will enter but few are chosen...

I wish the gospel were easier, but it's not! It's a HUGE decision that most people are not willing to make, because they love themselves way too much.


I've enjoyed this topic :) I like what you have to say, and I'm glad you realize the importance of LOVE! Cuz we don't want no clangin' cymbals!! haha
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think we agree, it is just that we are looking out for different kinds of error, which is a good thing because there are blind spots in the way all Christians approach witnessing and the gospel. I have enjoyed this conversation as well!

Peace
 

pia

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To all of you who think that the narrow road that leads to life, is attained by this "hard work " of following all the 'rules' the bible sets down for humans to follow.............There is NOTHING harder ( for anyone in the flesh ) than to walk and live in love.

Love is not fluffy....We can get some fluffy FEELINGS of love, but there is nothing fluffy about love in itself..That is just chemicals from our brains.

But THE LOVE OF GOD ( or rather, The Love that God IS ), is not like our human perceptions of love......We must stop making God out to be just a slightly better human being than we are....HE IS NOTHING LIKE US, when it comes to that.....And this is exactly what He wants you to be seeking all of the time.

Your first love, is when you receive the revelation from above, of His love for you, yourself !!!!!!!!! That is what you MUST believe and hold onto till the end....Otherwise you are rejecting His Glorious Gift, and taking it upon yourself, to get yourself saved.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

God bless.........Pia
 

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Is love the same thing as telling another person about Jesus?
Is love telling a homosexual that their behavior is dangerous to their eternal salvation?
Is love the same as being 'nice'?
How do we love our neighbors as ourselves?

Peace

Americans are obsessed with love and apparently so are American Christians.

Agape is not the same thing as eros.

Sharing the gospel is a commandment of Christ, not a Valentine's Day note.
Telling a gay person to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow Christ is an act of obediance to God.

Neither 'love' nor 'nice' have anything to do with man's obligation to God.
Indeed they interfere with the wisdom of making peace with the Almighty.

Living peacefully with one's neighbor does not equate to eternal salvation or the transmission of the gospel.

The questions you pose are little more than a fishing expedition for a way to be friends with the world.

Friendship with the world is enmity with God.

It is forbidden.
 

aspen

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Americans are obsessed with love and apparently so are American Christians.

Agape is not the same thing as eros.

Sharing the gospel is a commandment of Christ, not a Valentine's Day note.
Telling a gay person to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow Christ is an act of obediance to God.

Neither 'love' nor 'nice' have anything to do with man's obligation to God.
Indeed they interfere with the wisdom of making peace with the Almighty.

Living peacefully with one's neighbor does not equate to eternal salvation or the transmission of the gospel.

The questions you pose are little more than a fishing expedition for a way to be friends with the world.

Friendship with the world is enmity with God.

It is forbidden.

Actually, I think the very opposite thing is going on - many Americans are obsessed with discounting love - as if love is some wimpy, lukewarm way of approaching people - instead of love, people just need a swift kick in the .[....... ]. I am not sure when people got so mean - although I think it is rooted in cable news, but love is a strong and powerful way to live your life - we were created to be in relationship with each other and God - love is the manner in which we are called to relate. Paul was definitely obsessed with love - in fact, despite the reformed habit of mis-characterizing Paul, by making him look like a total jerk - Paul was the person who started and ended all of his letters is love and wrote 1 Corinthians 13. Indeed, for Paul, without love everything is 'a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal'

Peace
 

a3m24ie

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Just for the record, when I hear about people who have signs and bull horns with the message: "You're going to hell!" ... it makes me want to throw up, flip some tables, and anything else!

Also! The thing with those "Christians" who showed up at the soldier's funeral talking about that that death was God's judgement on America makes me FURIOUS.

So just to clear up that I do think that the truth should be shared, and in love, but also not so much "love" (ie the fluffy kind) that the truth is omitted... (ie "God loves you just as you are--and you don't need to change")..... but NEVER condemn anyone! That's not our job. We can judge someone's actions, but cannot judge a person's future salvation (ie: you're going to hell)
 

aspen

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Look, people who actually promote sin......refuse to change.....harden their hearts.....they know deep down that they are not pleasing God. Also, it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict people - not ours. When Christians tell a sinner that God loves them - the message is not - 'Hey, God sure loves the way you are living! Your depravity and sinfulness is unique, exciting! provocative! Make sure you continue sinning and celebrate your rebelliousness! Good job!". Instead, it is "God loves you - He wants to be in relationship with you - be vulnerable, humble yourself and let the Holy Spirit work on your heart - you can be an instrument of God!" It is an encouragement to show a person how valuable they are to God and how much God wants to redeem them. I am beginning to think that the only people who mistake this message for an easy gospel are Christians that are cynical and angry. Are there any preacher that you can think of that promote an easy gospel? Joel Osteen comes to mind - but that guy is hardly a preacher - he is more like a motivational speaker.

I plan on continuing to practice my sanctification by loving my neighbor and God and sharing the gospel as I was created to do - and trust God to convict people of their personal sin.

Peace
 

religusnut

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This whole word game of the word HATE associated with Christianity comes from the liberal left and basically homosexuality. It is nothing more than calling good evil and evil good.

In the eyes of those activests that are always pushing the envelope of perversion to force it down the throats of society anything that disagrees wtih their agenda is HATE SPEECH and must be silenced at all costs. They like the devil they serve are many times masters of taking quotations from the Bible to try to shut the truth up.

You can call it what you wish. If you do not tell them the truth then you do not love them.

The law can not save you but with out the law you will not know that you need a saviour.



Is love the same thing as telling another person about Jesus?
Is love telling a homosexual that their behavior is dangerous to their eternal salvation?
Is love the same as being 'nice'?
How do we love our neighbors as ourselves?

Peace

The truth will set you free according to the Bible and it usually does, right after the person hearing it gets over being angry at hearing it.
 

aspen

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This whole word game of the word HATE associated with Christianity comes from the liberal left and basically homosexuality. It is nothing more than calling good evil and evil good.

In the eyes of those activests that are always pushing the envelope of perversion to force it down the throats of society anything that disagrees wtih their agenda is HATE SPEECH and must be silenced at all costs. They like the devil they serve are many times masters of taking quotations from the Bible to try to shut the truth up.

You can call it what you wish. If you do not tell them the truth then you do not love them.

The law can not save you but with out the law you will not know that you need a saviour.





The truth will set you free according to the Bible and it usually does, right after the person hearing it gets over being angry at hearing it.

It is sad to me that you see the mindset and behavior of zealous Christians as good for the sole reason that you agree with the doctrine. If a Muslim person behaved in the same manner - their behavior and mindset would be hateful because you disagree with their doctrine. The fact is, most people make judgments about rude behavior, not based on their agreement or disagreement of what is being presented, but HOW the information is being presented. It is impossible for you to ever get an accurate view of rude, Christian behavior because in your mind the message justifies the behavior.
 

religusnut

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It is sad to me that you see the mindset and behavior of zealous Christians as good for the sole reason that you agree with the doctrine. If a Muslim person behaved in the same manner - their behavior and mindset would be hateful because you disagree with their doctrine. The fact is, most people make judgments about rude behavior, not based on their agreement or disagreement of what is being presented, but HOW the information is being presented. It is impossible for you to ever get an accurate view of rude, Christian behavior because in your mind the message justifies the behavior.

The fact of the matter is sin will not go un punished. If they are never told that they are in sin and what is wrong with what they are doing that would be a sin by those that did know.
 

aspen

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The fact of the matter is sin will not go un punished. If they are never told that they are in sin and what is wrong with what they are doing that would be a sin by those that did know.

You can present that information in a way that they will hear it AND you can also present the information in a way that rejects who they are instead of inviting them into the Body.

You are right - people do reject the Good News of Christ because they simply do not like it, but give them a chance to reject it - don't be a jerk and mistake their rejection of you with rejection of the gospel.

Witnessing is a relay-race. We need to hand off unbelievers to the next Christian. Always witness in a manner that helps unbelievers look forward to the next Christian they meet, rather than acting rudely and setting them up to avoid the next Christian they will meet.

Peace