What is Mystery Babylon?

[Lizbeth]

ITs also getting very clear that many are now under the influence of that which maketh the soul drunk
I Tried to warn us sister . I surely did so many years ago . remember back to when we first met
on andrews site . THE WHORE GONNA GATHER ALL by means of a false unity and of a false love .
Many are now under that influence as they accuse us of hating catholics hating etc
AND YET as you see they are all headed as one right into THAT UNITY , THAT GATHERING .
RONALD is under its sway too . ITS NOW ALL ABOUT LETS JUST FIND COMMON GROUND
and HOW DARE ANYONE SAY etc against any denomination or its vile teachers and teachings .
Ronald is under it sister . BUT HE aint alone . MOST O THIS SITE IS TOO . ITS FLOODING IN
and soon the ROOT of from whence it sprang will convince them
THAT FOLKS Like me you and others who wont go with the flow
Are A total all out threat , a danger to humanity and the earth . YOU JUST wait .
ITS GONNA get worse . IF THEY DO NOT REPENT of this , HEARTS WILL ONLY BE HARDENED MORE and more
against the TRUTH and those who stand for truth . SISTER , this cannot be stopped . WE MUST ENDURE IT
and continue to exhort no matter how much hatred increases against us . AND IT WILL INCREASE agaiinst us .
What we see now IS NOTHING compared to how IT WILL SOON and i mean SOON BE against us all who conformed not .

Amen Amigo. So grateful the Lord has given some eyes to see. It's been coming down the pike for a long time

This is God's judgment...He is the one sending it to those who have not received a love of the truth. I'm thinking this is how He is separating goats from sheep, wheat from tares. May the Lord give us strength to not falter as things become more difficult for His sheep.

Speaking of Andrew's website, this came to my inbox a few days ago - Stanley Frodisham's 1965 prophecy about a coming deception (hope the link works):

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1drv.ms

 

[APAK]

You didn't like my answer so you are in a snit...reacting. It is well known around the world that America is a land where people seek personal happiness. People are looking for a better life. A land of opportunities. But that is far from God's ways. When a religious industrial complex arises to satisfy the longings of those who seek a guarantee of salvation...those itching ears will have found an entire industry to cater to those wishes. The itching ears have raised up scores of teachers to re-interpret the bible to suit themselves...guaranteeing a good outcome for a certain set of beliefs. But the kicker is that you must also condemn others who don't ascribe to that policy as we see here. I'm not saying you are doing that...but that's the culture...the wind that we are operating in. Evangelicalism is very one dimensional...either you are "saved" or not. And that is NOT in the bible. It's either one is holy or not. But short-cuts around the cross and the truth are made to divert the truth to serve those who are in their own minds, at least, saved.

And you are predisposed to NOT hear the truth of the gospel and what God is looking for...His purpose. His purpose is not to make us feel good about ourselves.


I didn't say that. I'm saying that people are looking to exploit Jesus, thinking He is there to be exploited.


No...the prize is to win Christ. To enter into Him and be made into His likeness.


It's funny how people will assume that all Catholics are the same. Or all Jews. Or even all Muslims. Without judging the individuals, there are bents and pressures that the collective of whatever sort...have accepted as routine.


Salvation is ONLY from sin at the present time. When people read in an afterlife-religion bent they are showing their pagan roots.

Jesus came to save us from sin...not IN sin.

Inheriting life at the end is a whole other matter and should NOT be associated with the word "saved" at the present time. Sozo mainly means healed, or delivered...like from a physical ailment, or more deeply...going from bondage to sin, to freedom in Christ.

So then the bible is meant to be understood at a MUCH DEEPER level than what most have become used to.


You are reacting against a truth you don't like. You have to factor in your own ego and desires...iniquity...if you want to have an honest discussion about what is really in the bible. Was Jesus really the first American?

Salvation FROM sin...into a holy walk with God by abiding IN Christ.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:1-6

I can see you will never change in your persistence that you are always 'right' and you are definitely not, I assure you. You have difficulty in speaking the truth here, once again, and this time boldly lying to my face. Sad and a sick person you are as your words suggest in your posts.

And I just wanted you to clarify some statements you said earlier, with no hidden agender, just the truth, and you could not even do that. Instead you went on the attack, and then to project yourself on me as a clear sign of weakness on your part.

And are you kidding me with this statement you made in your post.

So you accuse me of what you usually do to others and did once again. Fantastic! How dare you lie in this fashion to me. Sick person as you are.. I'm nothing like you and I never assume much of people as you do as you easily knock them down out of some strange hidden rage within yourself.

Look what you said..

"It's funny how people will assume that all Catholics are the same. Or all Jews. Or even all Muslims. Without judging the individuals, there are bents and pressures that the collective of whatever sort...have accepted as routine."

And what did I say that prompted this deceptive and lying response of yours. ....

"You must be speaking about someone else you must know. 'Being saved' means a very lot more in actions, experience and life that the these two simple words, of course.

And for this pursuit, whatever you mean, as purely an American view, is quite astonishing and maybe an ignorant statement to make because you do not know what folks mean by them. I imagine you cannot read their minds and hearts."

This statement I spoke of is NOT you at all , it is me. You believe the opposite of people. You are not this kind and very truthful. You again attempted to project yourself onto me. You have yet again twisted and attempted to ridicule me when you in fact you are the one who lumps people together and accuses them of being this way and that way. And you do it with a straight smiling face, mind you. Sick...

Read your many posts where a large percentage of them you condemn people. You might need to see a shrink if you do not see yourself as doing this at all. I wish you would cease with all these accusations and belittlement of people. It is not a loving and kind attitude in the least.

You are showing once again you are unbelievable and a fraud and no one should trust your words and your personal doctrine is false and deceptive.

For the nth time Epi, and that includes what others have said in the own words, 'being saved' from sin and then walking in Christ is a process and part of BEING Saved, TODAY...as in 1 John 2:1-6 you listed.

I truly believe you do not even understand 1 John 2:1-6. You have added in and twisted it into a meaning of your exotic theory of salvation.

It's not difficult to understand this scripture at all, and it has no hidden coded ideas in it at all.

Look at verse 5. Anyone saying they "abide" in Christ should "walk," or live, as Jesus lived.

This is how a person knows he or she is a believer; they live like Jesus. And the spirit of Christ conforms us to this likeness of him we possess. Its a multiplying or cumulative contagious/magnetic growth process. This is truly a miracle beyond our understanding of how this process works - with the interaction of our spirit with his spirit that was laid in by God, by his grace to save us.

Demonstrating a Christlike life to themselves and others shows evidence of one's salvation. And we must continue to grow in his spirit through our our lives.

If a person is not Christlike, and does not confess sin in their lives they are not believers at all.

Those who fail to follow God's will in a Christlike manner does not fellowship with him and God, and he lies, to himself and to God. They do not possess saving grace and never truly accepted the grace of God that he may have offered them initially for their salvation. In other words, they lack the Spirit of God within them.

And as far as your 'deeper level' of scripture you mention, that you truly believe you only know, is your reliable safe exit escape route that is a cowards way to leave the discussion without any meaningful contribution. Of course there are parts of scripture that is not clearly understand and requires more study etc. Just making this statement without qualification as you did, does nothing for anyone and your meaning of it, as if that was your intention anyway. It was most probably stated just keeps feeding your immature ego I afraid. Sad.

 

[Lizbeth]

I find that the bible is a tool to measure the stature of a person according to God's measure.
How does one measure up if they don't have a standard to go by?
And I don't believe the bible is supposed to be used to measure other people's standards, but rather our own.
It is the mirror we look in to see what improvements are lacking in our charcter.

Paul says new believers are as babes who desire the sincere milk of the word.
He also says that there will be a time for meat but some aren't ready for that yet.
So how do we learn to grow whether by milk or meat if we don't have the words to drink or chew on?

The first principles...
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

What are the first principles and how do we learn them if we don't have the textbook to study by?
When a person first hears the gospel, they believe, and they recieve a seed of salvation. It's been planted by the hearing of the word.
Then what? It needs to be watered and tended so that it's root becomes strong and is able to bare fruit of itself.

So think of a tree. A tree drops it's seed into the ground. The seed begins to grow. It starts out a little sapling subject to the elements of heat cold wind storms. It has to overcome all of these in order for it's root to really grab hold.
I believe it takes about 3 years before some trees begin to bare fruit. And the fruit it bares is the same as the tree who's seed fell to the ground.
But there are stages of maturity a tree goes through. It begins a sapling, moves to a green tree, then it begins to grow fruit in itself., then it becomes dry and eventually dies.
Depending upon the soil the seed falls into is what determines the health and sweetness of the fruit.

God planted a garden in Eden.
Gen 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

So these trees come from the earth, earthy carnal.
There is a BEHOLD.. which catches my eye as something different. God says, I have given you upon the face of the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of A tree yeilding seed, to you it shall be for meat.

There is a difference between the trees the earth brings forth whose seed in itself after their kind, and the the fruit of A tree yeilding seed for meat That God has given. It doesn't say after it's kind but stands alone.

So some trees have have fruit after it's kind, and there are trees that bare fruit of A tree yielding seed for meat.

And we know there are two diffent kinds of trees specifally mentioned. The tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life.

Studying the different trees to be a good gardener is important.
So how does one learn about trees?
They go to horticulture school and learn from textbooks what soil, acidity, alkalinity, how much sun/shade is needed. How to prune, how to fertalize, and when to know it's ripe for eating.

What is the characteristics of the tree being tended and what kind of fruit it will bare.

We are the trees planted in the garden we call earth. There is A tree planted in a garden which is in heaven.
Earth begats earthy, and spirit begat spiritual.

And then there is the grafting in and cutting off of branches.

The bible is the textbook and the world is the schoolhouse. And the teacher is God's Spirit which leads us into all truth.

And from time to time the Lord goes walking through the garden to see how his garden grows.
Sng 6:11
I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.

1Co 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

The bible is like Johnny Appleseed. Through the bible the seeds are planted. There are many seeds both old and new.
Some bare good fruit some not so good.
So we look to the bible as the textbook which teaches us how to be fruitful trees. But it is God that does the work in us.

Be fruitful and multiply


Hugs

Amen. Bringing forth fruit unto perfection....our fruit needs to ripen and mature. And even then He prunes our fruitful branches to make them even more fruitful. Does He only prune our fruitful branches once, or is there a life long process aspect to this..? Having entered His rest are we labouring (endeavouring) to enter His rest more and more?

 

[Lizbeth]

I can see you will never change in your persistence that you are always 'right' and you are definitely not, I assure you. You have difficulty in speaking the truth here, once again, and this time boldly lying to my face. Sad and a sick person you are as your words suggest in your posts.

And I just wanted you to clarify some statements you said earlier, with no hidden agender, just the truth, and you could not even do that. Instead you went on the attack, and then to project yourself on me as a clear sign of weakness on your part.

And are you kidding me with this statement you made in your post.

So you accuse me of what you usually do to others and did once again. Fantastic! How dare you lie in this fashion to me. Sick person as you are.. I'm nothing like you and I never assume much of people as you do as you easily knock them down out of some strange hidden rage within yourself.

Look what you said..

"It's funny how people will assume that all Catholics are the same. Or all Jews. Or even all Muslims. Without judging the individuals, there are bents and pressures that the collective of whatever sort...have accepted as routine."

And what did I say that prompted this deceptive and lying response of yours. ....

"You must be speaking about someone else you must know. 'Being saved' means a very lot more in actions, experience and life that the these two simple words, of course.

And for this pursuit, whatever you mean, as purely an American view, is quite astonishing and maybe an ignorant statement to make because you do not know what folks mean by them. I imagine you cannot read their minds and hearts."

This statement I spoke of is NOT you at all , it is me. You believe the opposite of people. You are not this kind and very truthful. You again attempted to project yourself onto me. You have yet again twisted and attempted to ridicule me when you in fact you are the one who lumps people together and accuses them of being this way and that way. And you do it with a straight smiling face, mind you. Sick...

Read your many posts where a large percentage of them you condemn people. You might need to see a shrink if you do not see yourself as doing this at all. I wish you would cease with all these accusations and belittlement of people. It is not a loving and kind attitude in the least.

You are showing once again you are unbelievable and a fraud and no one should trust your words and your personal doctrine is false and deceptive.

For the nth time Epi, and that includes what others have said in the own words, 'being saved' from sin and then walking in Christ is a process and part of BEING Saved, TODAY...as in 1 John 2:1-6 you listed.

I truly believe you do not even understand 1 John 2:1-6. You have added in and twisted it into a meaning of your exotic theory of salvation.

It's not difficult to understand this scripture at all, and it has no hidden coded ideas in it at all.

Look at verse 5. Anyone saying they "abide" in Christ should "walk," or live, as Jesus lived.

This is how a person knows he or she is a believer; they live like Jesus. And the spirit of Christ conforms us to this likeness of him we possess. Its a multiplying or cumulative contagious/magnetic growth process. This is truly a miracle beyond our understanding of how this process works - with the interaction of our spirit with his spirit that was laid in by God, by his grace to save us.

Demonstrating a Christlike life to themselves and others shows evidence of one's salvation. And we must continue to grow in his spirit through our our lives.

If a person is not Christlike, and does not confess sin in their lives they are not believers at all.

Those who fail to follow God's will in a Christlike manner does not fellowship with him and God, and he lies, to himself and to God. They do not possess saving grace and never truly accepted the grace of God that he may have offered them initially for their salvation. In other words, they lack the Spirit of God within them.

And as far as your 'deeper level' of scripture you mention, that you truly believe you only know, is your reliable safe exit escape route that is a cowards way to leave the discussion without any meaningful contribution. Of course there are parts of scripture that is not clearly understand and requires more study etc. Just making this statement without qualification as you did, does nothing for anyone and your meaning of it, as if that was your intention anyway. It was most probably stated just keeps feeding your immature ego I afraid. Sad.

Very accurate to speak of "canned" responses, in my opinion....that's how it comes across to me too. Not seeing any care for souls, only care for whether someone agrees with him or not.

Another impression that comes across is just sweep the need to be born of God under the carpet, it's baby stuff, not important....tish-tosh.....nothing to see here folks. And even venomous attacks against it. Strikes me as anti-gospel.

Agree with your perception that something in the heart needs healing. Let the lame be healed...LEST THEY BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY. I often pray for healing, for myself and for all God's people, that we might be free to serve Him properly and not be turned out of the way.

 

[Episkopos]

I can see you will never change in your persistence that you are always 'right' and you are definitely not, I assure you. You have difficulty in speaking the truth here, once again, and this time boldly lying to my face. Sad and a sick person you are as your words suggest in your posts.

I never saw this "side" of you before. I am rather full of peace and joy. I accept that "disease" as from the Lord.

And I just wanted you to clarify some statements you said earlier, with no hidden agender, just the truth, and you could not even do that. Instead you went on the attack, and then to project yourself on me as a clear sign of weakness on your part.

And are you kidding me with this statement you made in your post.

So you accuse me of what you usually do to others and did once again. Fantastic! How dare you lie in this fashion to me. Sick person as you are.. I'm nothing like you and I never assume much of people as you do as you easily knock them down out of some strange hidden rage within yourself.

Why this tone? I think I struck a chord with you that you don't like. I see your outer man ego reacting against the truth whereby its the inner man in you I'm trying to reach.

Look what you said..

"It's funny how people will assume that all Catholics are the same. Or all Jews. Or even all Muslims. Without judging the individuals, there are bents and pressures that the collective of whatever sort...have accepted as routine."

And what did I say that prompted this deceptive and lying response of yours. ....

"You must be speaking about someone else you must know. 'Being saved' means a very lot more in actions, experience and life that the these two simple words, of course.

And for this pursuit, whatever you mean, as purely an American view, is quite astonishing and maybe an ignorant statement to make because you do not know what folks mean by them. I imagine you cannot read their minds and hearts."

Being from the West we have a certain bent...or wind that gives us a certain bias. To NOT see that is to be even MORE biased than usual...not less so.

It makes me think of a person (a fellow Canadian) who told me that he wasn't rich...when I said we have a certain rich attitude when it comes to life. Our society caters to the richness we have come to expect. Imagine a washroom crawling with cockroaches in a restaurant. How long would they stay in business. Yet, in poor countries that would be expected.

This statement I spoke of is NOT you at all , it is me. You believe the opposite of people. You are not this kind and very truthful. You again attempted to project yourself onto me. You have yet again twisted and attempted to ridicule me when you in fact you are the one who lumps people together and accuses them of being this way and that way. And you do it with a straight smiling face, mind you. Sick...

Read your many posts where a large percentage of them you condemn people. You might need to see a shrink if you do not see yourself as doing this at all. I wish you would cease with all these accusations and belittlement of people. It is not a loving and kind attitude in the least.

I am warning people, trying to awaken them from a deep sleep, or worse. The truth kills at first. But then it brings life.

It is no wonder that there is anger at the truth. People have ALWAYS resisted the Spirit....and the anger comes from those who pretend to be more than they are. There is NO anger in the one who walks in God. I don't expect anyone to understand the first thing about the crucified life. And I am rarely mistaken about having NO expectation whatsoever.

But that doesn't mean I won't lay out the truth so that it is POSSIBLE that someone will hear the truth and be quickened in their faith.

You are showing once again you are unbelievable and a fraud and no one should trust your words and your personal doctrine is false and deceptive.

Your world is upside down...but very consistent. So then I see that as a good thing. It is good to fully comprehend why someone hates a particular doctrine, or a personal rebuke. The wise LOVE to be thus corrected...as they see what it was they were holding on to has not the value they thought it did. To take oneself seriously is the beginning of foolishness. Better to investigate what makes the ego boil...and then forsake it.

For the nth time Epi, and that includes what others have said in the own words, 'being saved' from sin and then walking in Christ is a process and part of BEING Saved, TODAY...as in 1 John 2:1-6 you listed.

I truly believe you do not even understand 1 John 2:1-6. You have added in and twisted it into a meaning of your exotic theory of salvation.

The power of the gospel frees people from the bondage of sin. That cannot change. But people can believe the gospel and go to God to be set free from bondage. Jesus came to set the captives free.

It's not difficult to understand this scripture at all, and it has no hidden coded ideas in it at all.

Look at verse 5. Anyone saying they "abide" in Christ should "walk," or live, as Jesus lived.

This is how a person knows he or she is a believer; they live like Jesus. And the spirit of Christ conforms us to this likeness of him we possess. Its a multiplying or cumulative contagious/magnetic growth process. This is truly a miracle beyond our understanding of how this process works - with the interaction of our spirit with his spirit that was laid in by God, by his grace to save us.

Conversion into Christ is not a process but an event. People will always grow into something. But growing IN Christ is very specific.

Your ranting here shows that your flesh is alive and kicking...NOT crucified. Do you see that? Can you examine yourself as if you were not you? Can you be objective in seeing the root of things? Or will you ever champion your own cause? Not so Christ.

You expose your true condition for others to see. But can you see it?

Demonstrating a Christlike life to themselves and others shows evidence of one's salvation. And we must continue to grow in his spirit through our our lives.

If a person is not Christlike, and does not confess sin in their lives they are not believers at all.

Those who fail to follow God's will in a Christlike manner does not fellowship with him and God, and he lies, to himself and to God. They do not possess saving grace and never truly accepted the grace of God that he may have offered them initially for their salvation. In other words, they lack the Spirit of God within them.

Who is determining what a Christian life is supposed to look like? Anyone can lower the standard of Christ to something within their own grasp. That is why the religious system keeps going. We never seem to come to the end of ourselves. Being nice, or kind? What about being able to take a rebuke without retaliating in the flesh? Think about it.

And as far as your 'deeper level' of scripture you mention, that you truly believe you only know, is your reliable safe exit escape route that is a cowards way to leave the discussion without any meaningful contribution. Of course there are parts of scripture that is not clearly understand and requires more study etc. Just making this statement without qualification as you did, does nothing for anyone and your meaning of it, as if that was your intention anyway. It was most probably stated just keeps feeding your immature ego I afraid. Sad.

You are assuming I'm like you. A long time ago I used to play board games. I don't like the flesh that these types of things stir up in people...so I avoid them most of the time.
This one time I was playing a game called "risk" with a fellow believer. When it came to a certain rule question I laid out what I had preciously read in the rules. My friend disagreed very strongly...too strongly. We decided to go to the rules. When he had read them over he saw that I had been speaking right. BUT he needed an ego fix to EVEN THINGS OUT. Rather than just admit he was wrong, he accused me of just being lucky....making me just as wrong as he was.

Do you need that sort of affirmation too?


I'm hoping I just caught you on a bad day...but you need to consider your motivation and judgment of what is coming from a very deep experience of God. The bible is deeper than what people make it. And that's normal.

 

[APAK]

Very accurate to speak of "canned" responses, in my opinion....that's how it comes across to me too. Not seeing any care for souls, only care for whether someone agrees with him or not.

Another impression that comes across is just sweep the need to be born of God under the carpet, it's baby stuff, not important....tish-tosh.....nothing to see here folks. And even venomous attacks against it. Strikes me as anti-gospel.

Agree with your perception that something in the heart needs healing. Let the lame be healed...LEST THEY BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY. I often pray for healing, for myself and for all God's people, that we might be free to serve Him properly and not be turned out of the way.

I appreciate your post. You know this 'deeper' gospel 'deeper' depth to follow for new life this higher walk is becoming ridiculous. He, Epi, cannot describe or explain his doctrine clearly at all, because scripture does not support it. I've aske a few times now.

Yes Liz. I also get humbled many times in my days, for my personal healing and that affects others around as well. And I still learn to abandon ego or inner self when it comes a knocking. I listen and listen, and listen and then obey or move in that direction when the spirit within me that is growing anew provides my path. Does not always comes that easy though. I do get astonished every time it happens. It's a amazing

 

[APAK]

I never saw this "side" of you before. I am rather full of peace and joy. I accept that "disease" as from the Lord.


Why this tone? I think I struck a chord with you that you don't like. I see your outer man ego reacting against the truth whereby its the inner man in you I'm trying to reach.


Being from the West we have a certain bent...or wind that gives us a certain bias. To NOT see that is to be even MORE biased than usual...not less so.

It makes me think of a person (a fellow Canadian) who told me that he wasn't rich...when I said we have a certain rich attitude when it comes to life. Our society caters to the richness we have come to expect. Imagine a washroom crawling with cockroaches in a restaurant. How long would they stay in business. Yet, in poor countries that would be expected.


I am warning people, trying to awaken them from a deep sleep, or worse. The truth kills at first. But then it brings life.

It is no wonder that there is anger at the truth. People have ALWAYS resisted the Spirit....and the anger comes from those who pretend to be more than they are. There is NO anger in the one who walks in God. I don't expect anyone to understand the first thing about the crucified life. And I am rarely mistaken about having NO expectation whatsoever.

But that doesn't mean I won't lay out the truth so that it is POSSIBLE that someone will hear the truth and be quickened in their faith.


Your world is upside down...but very consistent. So then I see that as a good thing. It is good to fully comprehend why someone hates a particular doctrine, or a personal rebuke. The wise LOVE to be thus corrected...as they see what it was they were holding on to has not the value they thought it did. To take oneself seriously is the beginning of foolishness. Better to investigate what makes the ego boil...and then forsake it.


The power of the gospel frees people from the bondage of sin. That cannot change. But people can believe the gospel and go to God to be set free from bondage. Jesus came to set the captives free.


Conversion into Christ is not a process but an event. People will always grow into something. But growing IN Christ is very specific.

Your ranting here shows that your flesh is alive and kicking...NOT crucified. Do you see that? Can you examine yourself as if you were not you? Can you be objective in seeing the root of things? Or will you ever champion your own cause? Not so Christ.

You expose your true condition for others to see. But can you see it?


Who is determining what a Christian life is supposed to look like? Anyone can lower the standard of Christ to something within their own grasp. That is why the religious system keeps going. We never seem to come to the end of ourselves. Being nice, or kind? What about being able to take a rebuke without retaliating in the flesh? Think about it.

You are assuming I'm like you. A long time ago I used to play board games. I don't like the flesh that these types of things stir up in people...so I avoid them most of the time.
This one time I was playing a game called "risk" with a fellow believer. When it came to a certain rule question I laid out what I had preciously read in the rules. My friend disagreed very strongly...too strongly. We decided to go to the rules. When he had read them over he saw that I had been speaking right. BUT he needed an ego fix to EVEN THINGS OUT. Rather than just admit he was wrong, he accused me of just being lucky....making me just as wrong as he was.

Do you need that sort of affirmation too?


I'm hoping I just caught you on a bad day...but you need to consider your motivation and judgment of what is coming from a very deep experience of God. The bible is deeper than what people make it. And that's normal.

It's not a bad day for me Epi. I just hate lying and deception, and I have to get it out directly and quickly onto the target in question. Another real sign of a genuine believer 'being saved' today.

 

[Episkopos]

I appreciate your post. You know this 'deeper' gospel 'deeper' depth to follow for new life this higher walk is becoming ridiculous. He, Epi, cannot describe or explain his doctrine clearly at all, because scripture does not support it. I've aske a few times now.

Ziggy posted about the bible showing us a standard that we are to live up to...and that it is for every person to see where they are.

This is sort of true...for the righteous and the babes in Christ. But in the end we cannot be trusted to read in the standard of Christ for ourselves. God is holy. And we are being called into something we have no idea about. If we are only called to be the best version of ourselves...then fine. We are operating on a human level and treating the bible language as philosophy..imagery that should not be taken literally.

But that assumes that the ways of God are fully within the grasp of people. With God ALL things are possible. With men not so.

So unless you understand the gospel as an upward call into what is impossible to do in our carnal weakness...then you have merely short-circuited the truth in order to justify a human effort...as biblical sounding as that may be.

Very few will consider that the ways of God are that much higher than what the human mind can grasp.

Yes Liz. I also get humbled many times in my days, for my personal healing and that affects others around as well. And I still learn to abandon ego or inner self when it comes a knocking. I listen and listen, and listen and then obey or move in that direction when the spirit within me that is growing anew provides my path. Does not always comes that easy though. I do get astonished every time it happens. It's a amazing

While this is good...the good will get in the way of the perfect.

How can it be said...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Having a form of godliness but denying the POWER thereof? The error will always be in diminishing the gospel and the Christian life...not in exaggerating its claims.

 

[Episkopos]

It's not a bad day for me Epi. I just hate lying and deception, and I have to get it out directly and quickly onto the target in question. Another real sign of a genuine believer 'being saved' today.

You don't hate lying and deception enough to forsake what you have received as error...the limiting of God's power. Do you really think I'm lying by exaggerating the power of the gospel? The truth is laid out clearly enough although it does take the power of the Spirit to bring us into the full depth of the experience.

Or is it because it calls into question your own attainment up until now?

Which one seems most like an ego pursuit?

I am fully preaching the gospel...calling people into it. Not judging people. People will show where they are by their reaction to the truth. To take offense at that is a defense of the flesh...now defended by a religious ego.

 

[Episkopos]

Is it wrong to try presenting the best version of ourselves? Only if we are standing in the way of being a living sacrifice. No longer I but Christ means more than just a self-abnegation..it means we are done away with in order to make room for Another to live in our place. This is the true mystery of godliness in Christ. The exchanged life. It means to live life from another's viewpoint...another's power. We are outside ourselves looking at ourselves as if a stranger.

The power of the cross is denied by any religious authority who seeks to fill the pews with those who are looking for an easy way out of the penalty for sins. No one seems to understand the gospel as the power that FREES people from sin. The cost is just too great.

What is a living sacrifice? Who would offer themselves this way? Only those who trust that a life lived away from self...a life no longer our own control...brings us into the sphere of a holy God.

So then people want an easy out. But few, if any, want to give themselves according to the selflessness of Christ. People want to BENEFIT from Christ...but few want to die with Him...suffer with Him...lose themselves in Him.

And the deeper walk is HATED by the religiously bent ones. It's going too far to do anything but POINT to Christ and the benefits that can be derived from Him.

The bible is very clear about what happens to the exploiters. But the truth is not received by those who have been religiously motivated to name and claim the benefits and deny the cost of actually entering into the things these claim to have by a religious ideology.

 

[APAK]

You don't hate lying and deception enough to forsake what you have received as error...the limiting of God's power. Do you really think I'm lying by exaggerating the power of the gospel? The truth is laid out clearly enough although it does take the power of the Spirit to bring us into the full depth of the experience.

Or is it because it calls into question your own attainment up until now?

Which one seems most like an ego pursuit?

I am fully preaching the gospel...calling people into it. Not judging people. People will show where they are by their reaction to the truth. To take offense at that is a defense of the flesh...now defended by a religious ego.

And again explain yourself without presenting fluff that is utter meaningless. IOW you have not said anything of value. And that is with many of posts. I know the gospel very well, and you know a different indescribable version of your own making, and then judge others against it, period. Those that give you 'likes I take it are your sheep, and you are their 'new' gospel gnostic master.

And in your statement :....You don't hate lying and deception enough to forsake what you have received as error..." Do not be so arrogant and presumption in your own mind. You are fooling yourself mate, and the worst part is you believe you have new-founded hidden knowledge as a neo-Gnostic teacher.

 

[APAK]

Ziggy posted about the bible showing us a standard that we are to live up to...and that it is for every person to see where they are.

This is sort of true...for the righteous and the babes in Christ. But in the end we cannot be trusted to read in the standard of Christ for ourselves. God is holy. And we are being called into something we have no idea about. If we are only called to be the best version of ourselves...then fine. We are operating on a human level and treating the bible language as philosophy..imagery that should not be taken literally.

But that assumes that the ways of God are fully within the grasp of people. With God ALL things are possible. With men not so.

So unless you understand the gospel as an upward call into what is impossible to do in our carnal weakness...then you have merely short-circuited the truth in order to justify a human effort...as biblical sounding as that may be.

Very few will consider that the ways of God are that much higher than what the human mind can grasp.



While this is good...the good will get in the way of the perfect.

How can it be said...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Having a form of godliness but denying the POWER thereof? The error will always be in diminishing the gospel and the Christian life...not in exaggerating its claims.

".....But in the end we cannot be trusted to read in the standard of Christ for ourselves. God is holy. And we are being called into something we have no idea about. If we are only called to be the best version of ourselves...then fine. We are operating on a human level and treating the bible language as philosophy..imagery that should not be taken literally..."

"But that assumes that the ways of God are fully within the grasp of people. With God ALL things are possible. With men not so."


"So unless you understand the gospel as an upward call into what is impossible to do in our carnal weakness...then you have merely short-circuited the truth in order to justify a human effort...as biblical sounding as that may be."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the heck does all this rubbish really mean. Just read it....can anyone know what you really mean??? No! You me to condemn once again of course...and you have say NOTHING yet in your defense of it.

And now again, you accuse me and others of doing all these things you have just said, and even diminishing the truth and treating the Bible language as philosophy. How dare you, you arrogant worthless piece of garbage.

What a load of horse manure. These are words of someone raving mad, fit for the mental ward.

 

[Laurina]

Those that give you 'likes I take it are your sheep, and you are their 'new' gospel gnostic master.

Lol One could take it take way, and YOU do. You have never bothered to ask me, Faithfulness, or the others who "likes" Epi's posts why...you just judge that we are mindless sheep following "their 'new' gospel gnostic master" (your words)! Think what you need to in order to hold your view. However, if that was true, why would I have posted in #218:

Jer. 17:5-6 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD. For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited.

Jer. 17:7-8 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

So, to follow logic in your view point, I am cursed. But I am witnessing that I am blessed. (Not that you are interested, because if you truly are, you would question me (or us---those who "like" Epi's posts).

I "like" Epi's posts to be an encouragement to him before the Lord. I know that makes me hated on this site by some, but this isn't about me or Epi, it's about the Lord. My testimony is that I (my ego) (like you and others) hated what Epi had said to me in one point in time (he had confronted me in my words and pointed out inconsistencies, actually direct opposites). So, I held 2 opposite point of views and Epi pointed that out and asked me which one was true before God. I realized that Epi saw me correctly and that I had to decide one way or the other. I thanked him for pointing that out in me, and then went to repent before the Lord with all my heart. I know that I repented with all my heart because the next morning when I woke up everything I saw was shimmering with light. Everything was, indoors and outdoors!!! God showed me something new!!! Praise the Lord for He is good and His mercy endures forever!!

Just again, thank you @Episkopos for all the flesh you endure in order to help people forsake their own!! <3 <3

 

[Episkopos]

Lol One could take it take way, and YOU do. You have never bothered to ask me, Faithfulness, or the others who "likes" Epi's posts why...you just judge that we are mindless sheep following "their 'new' gospel gnostic master" (your words)! Think what you need to in order to hold your view. However, if that was true, why would I have posted in #218:

Jer. 17:5-6 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD. For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited.

Jer. 17:7-8 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

So, to follow logic in your view point, I am cursed. But I am witnessing that I am blessed. (Not that you are interested, because if you truly are, you would question me (or us---those who "like" Epi's posts).

I "like" Epi's posts to be an encouragement to him before the Lord. I know that makes me hated on this site by some, but this isn't about me or Epi, it's about the Lord. My testimony is that I (my ego) (like you and others) hated what Epi had said to me in one point in time (he had confronted me in my words and pointed out inconsistencies, actually direct opposites). So, I held 2 opposite point of views and Epi pointed that out and asked me which one was true before God. I realized that Epi saw me correctly and that I had to decide one way or the other. I thanked him for pointing that out in me, and then went to repent before the Lord with all my heart. I know that I repented with all my heart because the next morning when I woke up everything I saw was shimmering with light. Everything was, indoors and outdoors!!! God showed me something new!!! Praise the Lord for He is good and His mercy endures forever!!

Just again, thank you @Episkopos for all the flesh you endure in order to help people forsake their own!! <3 <3

Kind words. It's so funny how there is a professional class of pastors (shepherds) that are hirelings and taken seriously...as if they were appointed by God rather than men. That's seen as acceptable.

But I am nothing....no title or position. So then if I ACTUALLY shepherd by God's gifting...that can be seen as far INFERIOR to being appointed by men.

People are funny. I don't take anything seriously that comes from people. I don't expect very many to agree with the gospel...at the depth that Paul fully preached it at.

 

[Episkopos]

".....But in the end we cannot be trusted to read in the standard of Christ for ourselves. God is holy. And we are being called into something we have no idea about. If we are only called to be the best version of ourselves...then fine. We are operating on a human level and treating the bible language as philosophy..imagery that should not be taken literally..."

"But that assumes that the ways of God are fully within the grasp of people. With God ALL things are possible. With men not so."


"So unless you understand the gospel as an upward call into what is impossible to do in our carnal weakness...then you have merely short-circuited the truth in order to justify a human effort...as biblical sounding as that may be."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the heck does all this rubbish really mean. Just read it....can anyone know what you really mean??? No! You me to condemn once again of course...and you have say NOTHING yet in your defense of it.

And now again, you accuse me and others of doing all these things you have just said, and even diminishing the truth and treating the Bible language as philosophy. How dare you, you arrogant worthless piece of garbage.

What a load of horse manure. These are words of someone raving mad, fit for the mental ward.

Spiritual things are at a depth that the carnal mind cannot accept. But to be against the truth is worse than just chocking it up to something beyond you. Will you also criticize astrophysicists because what they say sounds like gobbledygook?

No. You accept that others have studied and have progressed in areas you have not.

But you have a religious pride thing going on with the gospel. You believe it isn't possible for you to be stumped by the depth of it.

I'm also a musician. I never think that my playing cannot be surpassed. Only very immature musicians...who cannot progress ...could believe that they are the best..and cannot be surpassed. The music world shows us constantly of better players. It keeps us all humble.

Not so in the church. Here it is common to allow ourselves to be ego ensnared by our doctrinal bents...assuming that God could never reveal or elevate anyone higher than ourselves. Such hubris. Such arrogance. I'm not trying to be better than anyone else. I'm merely preaching the truth and testifying of God's goodness in holiness. The churches need this teaching.

Maybe you should become a musician.

 

[Lizbeth]

Lol One could take it take way, and YOU do. You have never bothered to ask me, Faithfulness, or the others who "likes" Epi's posts why...you just judge that we are mindless sheep following "their 'new' gospel gnostic master" (your words)! Think what you need to in order to hold your view. However, if that was true, why would I have posted in #218:

Jer. 17:5-6 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD. For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited.

Jer. 17:7-8 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

So, to follow logic in your view point, I am cursed. But I am witnessing that I am blessed. (Not that you are interested, because if you truly are, you would question me (or us---those who "like" Epi's posts).

I "like" Epi's posts to be an encouragement to him before the Lord. I know that makes me hated on this site by some, but this isn't about me or Epi, it's about the Lord. My testimony is that I (my ego) (like you and others) hated what Epi had said to me in one point in time (he had confronted me in my words and pointed out inconsistencies, actually direct opposites). So, I held 2 opposite point of views and Epi pointed that out and asked me which one was true before God. I realized that Epi saw me correctly and that I had to decide one way or the other. I thanked him for pointing that out in me, and then went to repent before the Lord with all my heart. I know that I repented with all my heart because the next morning when I woke up everything I saw was shimmering with light. Everything was, indoors and outdoors!!! God showed me something new!!! Praise the Lord for He is good and His mercy endures forever!!

Just again, thank you @Episkopos for all the flesh you endure in order to help people forsake their own!! <3 <3

Have you never seen Epi's flesh that some of us have endured around here sister, or can he do no wrong in your eyes?

 

[David H.]

Those that give you 'likes I take it are your sheep, and you are their 'new' gospel gnostic master.

Apak,
There are those in this world who lead and those who follow. The leaders are anointed with the gift of teaching, but the goal of the true teacher is to create more teachers that can think for themselves.... "By now you ought to be teachers yourselves" lamented the author of Hebrews (5:12). There is at work in the church and has been from the beginning a complacency to suckle by the masses and conversely a spirit to keep the masses suckling by the leaders in the churches (Nicolaitan spirit). When the sheep embrace their anointing they will learn to think for themselves, like the Holy Spirit Red pill, so to speak and will discern what is true and false, and who is righteous and who is wicked, and who serves God and who does not (Malachi 3:18)
Much of what is the church today is caught up in this Nicolaitan suckling syndrome (NSS), and they do not even know it. It is no different than what we see on forums where those who espouse the best fundamentalism on a forum have a flock of sheep who follow and like what they say.

So To Judge someone like Epi who is trying IMO to wake up the masses to take the red pill and stop suckling on the nicolaitan spirit of complacency in the church is a good thing.... Do I disagree with Him on things, yes, but that is because we all know in part... he knows in part, I know in Part, Laurina knows in Part, etc. there is a fellowship among brothers and sisters In Christ who know in part because together we see a glimpse of the whole council of God, and His redemptive plan for mankind, and it is not just to save us from hell, but to save us from ourselves (Ego, Old Man) and to Loving one another as Christ Loved us. Obedience to Christ's new commandment. This is what marks a saint in scripture, not one who has said a prayer and is living in complacency and partial belief, but one who has embraced the providence of God in our lives to enter God's resting place Like Joshua and Caleb did in full belief that Christ who is the author of our faith will also finish our faith. Take the time to carefully read Hebrews 3,4,5,6 Pray for the Spirit to teach you and guide you. Epi is not perfect, neither are any of us with mortal minds trying to grasp a Thrice Holy God, But with faith in the providence of God to redeem and restore us and make us his workmanship by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony (Martyria) we will overcome.

The church, needs to wake up not into a woke parroting of Nicolaitans, but rather a living and thriving and vibrant faith led by the anointing of the Spirit. Then you will have applied the eye salve God offers each of us to see Spiritually.

I Hope this helps... God Bless.

 

[APAK]

Lol One could take it take way, and YOU do. You have never bothered to ask me, Faithfulness, or the others who "likes" Epi's posts why...you just judge that we are mindless sheep following "their 'new' gospel gnostic master" (your words)! Think what you need to in order to hold your view. However, if that was true, why would I have posted in #218:

Jer. 17:5-6 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD. For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited.

Jer. 17:7-8 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

So, to follow logic in your view point, I am cursed. But I am witnessing that I am blessed. (Not that you are interested, because if you truly are, you would question me (or us---those who "like" Epi's posts).

I "like" Epi's posts to be an encouragement to him before the Lord. I know that makes me hated on this site by some, but this isn't about me or Epi, it's about the Lord. My testimony is that I (my ego) (like you and others) hated what Epi had said to me in one point in time (he had confronted me in my words and pointed out inconsistencies, actually direct opposites). So, I held 2 opposite point of views and Epi pointed that out and asked me which one was true before God. I realized that Epi saw me correctly and that I had to decide one way or the other. I thanked him for pointing that out in me, and then went to repent before the Lord with all my heart. I know that I repented with all my heart because the next morning when I woke up everything I saw was shimmering with light. Everything was, indoors and outdoors!!! God showed me something new!!! Praise the Lord for He is good and His mercy endures forever!!

Just again, thank you @Episkopos for all the flesh you endure in order to help people forsake their own!! <3 <3

And as you can see from your post why bother asking you about your views Laurina, really? You just reinforced what I knew already, by careful observation over a period of time.

Why would you be cursed anyway? And why are you hated on this site? I think that is an exaggeration. I do not, truly. It might have to do more with your quick like and views of Epi's that I still do not understand nor will I get straight and honest answers from him; of all these aspects of theology, salvation, the gospel, Babylon etc. Folks do have differences of opinion of course.

It is only when someone as Epi, and there are more, brings in a new concept of scripture say regarding salvation and the gospel and then continually goes on the attack, and attempts to strike down any opposing view point. And if that was not enough, he usually falsely accuses them of ideas, words they did not say or intent to say. Enough is enough of this childish and deceptive charade, and I will continue to confront this imposer at every turn I feel like, at my own time of choosing.

Continue to encourage him all you want, I just hope you really know what he is preaching..

Thanks for taking the time in letting me know of your opinion and with candor. I understood your post very well.

Be vigilant and stay close to the ones you love in your life, especially our Father and his Son of life eternal.

.

 

[APAK]

Apak,
There are those in this world who lead and those who follow. The leaders are anointed with the gift of teaching, but the goal of the true teacher is to create more teachers that can think for themselves.... "By now you ought to be teachers yourselves" lamented the author of Hebrews (5:12). There is at work in the church and has been from the beginning a complacency to suckle by the masses and conversely a spirit to keep the masses suckling by the leaders in the churches (Nicolaitan spirit). When the sheep embrace their anointing they will learn to think for themselves, like the Holy Spirit Red pill, so to speak and will discern what is true and false, and who is righteous and who is wicked, and who serves God and who does not (Malachi 3:18)
Much of what is the church today is caught up in this Nicolaitan suckling syndrome (NSS), and they do not even know it. It is no different than what we see on forums where those who espouse the best fundamentalism on a forum have a flock of sheep who follow and like what they say.

So To Judge someone like Epi who is trying IMO to wake up the masses to take the red pill and stop suckling on the nicolaitan spirit of complacency in the church is a good thing.... Do I disagree with Him on things, yes, but that is because we all know in part... he knows in part, I know in Part, Laurina knows in Part, etc. there is a fellowship among brothers and sisters In Christ who know in part because together we see a glimpse of the whole council of God, and His redemptive plan for mankind, and it is not just to save us from hell, but to save us from ourselves (Ego, Old Man) and to Loving one another as Christ Loved us. Obedience to Christ's new commandment. This is what marks a saint in scripture, not one who has said a prayer and is living in complacency and partial belief, but one who has embraced the providence of God in our lives to enter God's resting place Like Joshua and Caleb did in full belief that Christ who is the author of our faith will also finish our faith. Take the time to carefully read Hebrews 3,4,5,6 Pray for the Spirit to teach you and guide you. Epi is not perfect, neither are any of us with mortal minds trying to grasp a Thrice Holy God, But with faith in the providence of God to redeem and restore us and make us his workmanship by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony (Martyria) we will overcome.

The church, needs to wake up not into a woke parroting of Nicolaitans, but rather a living and thriving and vibrant faith led by the anointing of the Spirit. Then you will have applied the eye salve God offers each of us to see Spiritually.

I Hope this helps... God Bless.

I'm listening, although do you really know the details of his doctrine(s)?

 

[amigo de christo]

Have you never seen Epi's flesh that some of us have endured around here sister, or can he do no wrong in your eyes?

the law of inclusivity is he who preaches a broad path and appears loving can do no wrong .
But he who preaches the dire necessity of having to believe on Christ and exposes the false religoins can do no right .
You will find the generation that often hollers love the loudest , tolerance and acceptance the most
diveristy and inclusivity , will embrace anyone with open arms no matter what
but will have zero tolerance , love or acceptance for those who bring biblical reminders .
To an inclusivian They would see the JESUS CHRIST in the bible
the apostels in the bible , THE GOD of the bible as being hateful , non loving , bitter and full of judgment .
Yet the serpent they see as loving , kind , accepting , generous with copious amounts of kindness .
The problem is the TRUE GOD , TRUE CHRIST are now seen as agents of satan who love not
and satan has been transformed into the god of love they THINK IS GOD .
now this is not an accusation < ITS PLAIN FACT .