What is Mystery Babylon?

[Episkopos]

Yes, we are saved from sin, but the bible ALSO says we are saved from wrath through Him. That is the liberty we have now. Freed from the condemnation of the Law and the kind of fear and bondage it brought. And that is the reason we are admonished not to use this liberty and grace as an occasion for the flesh or license for sin (Gal 5:13, Jude 1:4).

You are reading in the benefits of the higher walk into the common walk of immature and unholy believers. You are confusing holiness with righteousness. That's where the depth of iniquity comes from. A child sits in the seat of a car and thinks he is driving it. And because he is a child we laugh. But to ACTUALLY think he is driving the car is ludicrous. That's what we see SO much of among the poorly trained ones. These pretend...assume and presume AS IF they were in the higher walk....but without a clue as to what the actual cost is. These name and claim...but are merely playing disciple...just as the corporate version is playing church.

Until a person understands the DEPTH of the gospel... the delusion will continue....the mystery of iniquity is at work.

Yes....they say...we are seated in heavenly places according to Paul...(as they crack open another beer and turn the tv to watch the superbowl). Yes.....we are as righteous as God is... (at least that's what God sees...wink wink.

The very superficiality of the ones making the claims makes the judgment to come severe. Yet...the adulterous woman wipes her mouth and says "I have done no iniquity". Not me...I'm as righteous as God is. I'm already as holy as God is...He 's just not finished with me yet.

What a disaster!

There would be no need to admonish this otherwise that I can see.....in Jude it says explicitly not to use grace as a license to sin. So the writers were warding off a misconception and careless attitude, wrongly thinking that because we are under grace and no longer condemned we are therefore free to just do as we please with impunity. We are not our own, we have been bought with a price.....and sin has consequences.....one of which, if persisted in, can harden the heart and potentially cause one to fall away. And on God's part His Spirit can be grieved to such an extent that He departs...ichabod.

Again, this is warning those who have entered into the higher walk and become careless. A living sacrifice can crawl off the altar.

On the subject of authority, this is how I believe we are instructed........we are not subject to and under the Law or man's laws....as sons we are exempt Jesus said......but so we do not offend unnecessarily we are to submit ourselves of our own free will to them as long as doing so doesn't involve sin. Paul being no longer under Law, still found it expedient to obey certain ordinances of the Law for the sake of the Jews he was trying to get saved, so as to not offend them unnecessarily and put a stumbling block in their way. It is so as to not bring the gospel into disrepute and so we don't give our enemies any unnecessary excuse to find fault as well. Give to Ceasar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's......we are to give tribute and honour to whomever it is due, pay our taxes, and as we see for example how respectful Joseph and Esther and Daniel were to their authorities, according to the ways of those places and times.

We are in a transition period in the wilderness until we enter into Christ personally and become filled with the fullness of God.

"And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God." Eph. 3:19

To claim to be walking on that level, when one is walking as any other human...is the sin of the Pharisees..who claimed to see...so that Jesus said...your sin remains.

"Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains." John 9 :41

Nice lesson there for us.......not to take Jesus and His salvation for granted but work out our salvation with fear and trembling, in sincerity, doing our best, giving Him our best.

Nice of you to do your best. But holiness is not doing your best. You are fully in the wrong testament.

 

[Ziggy]

Off to see dad catch you all later
hugs

 

[amigo de christo]

I'll be leaving shortly to go visit dad today. Going to bring him some corn chowda.. lol He likes it, I hope he eats it.
I didn't visit yesterday the chores needed attending. But I called last night and they said he was doing well.
Thank you


In the OT there are laws about when you harvest a field, don't glean it thoroughly, but leave what is left behind for the poor.
It's too bad the governments of the world don't follow this rule.
The US is the worst slave master. We bring in foreignors to work our fields because they say no one here wants to do it.
Maybe that's true I don't know. I worked raking blueberries a few summers and had enough money to go to the fair in the fall.
It's the incentives that are lacking. If you tell hungry people they can eat for free the crops they are picking, maybe their belly would put them to work.
But the government and the corporations work together for subsidies and other perks, so they make a propfit from people they bring in to use as slave labour.

When they wake up and realize they are being treated unfairly there will be a revolt. The government to stupid to see this, they tooo short sighted by their own greed.

So much to say and so little time, lol
I be back later and follow up. You put a lot on that plate and I'd like to chew on it with you.

Hugs

WHEN DIGITAL FARM IS USHERED IN , many will realize , ONLYTHEN ITS TOO LATE .
You no comply .....................YOU NO BUY . ITS COMING ZIGGY , even now its at the door .

 

[Lizbeth]

I'll be leaving shortly to go visit dad today. Going to bring him some corn chowda.. lol He likes it, I hope he eats it.
I didn't visit yesterday the chores needed attending. But I called last night and they said he was doing well.
Thank you


In the OT there are laws about when you harvest a field, don't glean it thoroughly, but leave what is left behind for the poor.
It's too bad the governments of the world don't follow this rule.
The US is the worst slave master. We bring in foreignors to work our fields because they say no one here wants to do it.
Maybe that's true I don't know. I worked raking blueberries a few summers and had enough money to go to the fair in the fall.
It's the incentives that are lacking. If you tell hungry people they can eat for free the crops they are picking, maybe their belly would put them to work.
But the government and the corporations work together for subsidies and other perks, so they make a propfit from people they bring in to use as slave labour.

When they wake up and realize they are being treated unfairly there will be a revolt. The government to stupid to see this, they tooo short sighted by their own greed.

So much to say and so little time, lol
I be back later and follow up. You put a lot on that plate and I'd like to chew on it with you.

Hugs

I'm glad your Dad is doing better. I'm sure he'll enjoy that corn chowda, lol. Better than hospital food I'm sure!

I think socialism itself is often a reaction to the suffering brought on by greedy big corps or upper classes, so they bring it on themselves......but sometimes there is just plain jealousy mixed in there too which is nasty and I can't have any sympathy for that.

Hope your day goes well and see you soon.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes....they say...we are seated in heavenly places according to Paul...(as they crack open another beer and turn the tv to watch the superbowl). Yes.....we are as righteous as God is... (at least that's what God sees...wink wink.

The very superficiality of the ones making the claims makes the judgment to come severe. Yet...the adulterous woman wipes her mouth and says "I have done no iniquity". Not me...I'm as righteous as God is. I'm already as holy as God is...He 's just not finished with me yet.

Yes there are those who claim to know Jesus but are not following Him......think we can blame the greasy grace gospel for that at least in part........and God will separate out the wheat from the tares in the end. But I was responding to your comment that the liberty we have is from sin......was pointing out that we are saved from wrath as well, and that is why we need admonishing not to use grace as a license to sin.

Again, this is warning those who have entered into the higher walk and become careless. A living sacrifice can crawl off the altar.

I don't agree. It's a warning to all. And it seems obvious that all need it.

To claim to be walking on that level, when one is walking as any other human...is the sin of the Pharisees..who claimed to see...so that Jesus said...your sin remains.

Good thing I'm not claiming that then. We need to not think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

Nice of you to do your best. But holiness is not doing your best. You are fully in the wrong testament.

Knew you would jump on that, lol. It's the new testament which says the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one doesn't have. We aren't all given the same measure, and nor are we all in the same place in our growth, but we are to give to God what we have. Look how gracious Jesus was to Mary when she anointed him with her ointment....it was the best she could do to express her love and gratitude.....and Jesus said "she hath done what she could"...and even that she would be memorialized.....lest we disdain her little sacrifice.

 

[marks]

The idea that I browbeat people is rich.

That is the least that you do. I've watched for years as you mercilessly needle others. Ridicule, insult, demean, lie against, and if there is any other mean way to treat someone on a forum, I've seen you do it. It is not for nothing that I consider you a spiritual narcissist. It's what you do.

Much love, and hope that many will see!

 

[Episkopos]

That is the least that you do. I've watched for years as you mercilessly needle others. Ridicule, insult, demean, lie against, and if there is any other mean way to treat someone on a forum, I've seen you do it. It is not for nothing that I consider you a spiritural narcissist. It's what you do.

Much love, and hope that many will see!

What I hear you saying is that I don't go easy on religious egos.

 

[marks]

What I hear you saying is that I don't go easy on religious egos.

Then you haven't heard what I said.

In fact I believe you did hear me, and are simply deflecting as always.

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

On the subject of authority, this is how I believe we are instructed........we are not subject to and under the Law or man's laws....as sons we are exempt Jesus said......but so we do not offend unnecessarily we are to submit ourselves of our own free will to them as long as doing so doesn't involve sin. Paul being no longer under Law, still found it expedient to obey certain ordinances of the Law for the sake of the Jews he was trying to get saved, so as to not offend them unnecessarily and put a stumbling block in their way. It is so as to not bring the gospel into disrepute and so we don't give our enemies any unnecessary excuse to find fault as well. Give to Ceasar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's......we are to give tribute and honour to whomever it is due, pay our taxes, and as we see for example how respectful Joseph and Esther and Daniel were to their authorities, according to the ways of those places and times.

I have trouble with some contradictions.
Thou shalt not kill. Some say murder, the bible says kill, I don't care which it is the cessasion of life.
If someone breaks the law, kill them.

Moses killed a man, by rights he should of been stoned and expected as much from the Egyptians when they found out, so he fled.
It was Egypt that instituted stoning. Stoning isn't in the bible until it says Moses was afraid the Egyptians would stone him for making sacrifices in the wilderness.

Exo 8:26
And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?

What exactly is the abomination of the Egyptians that Moses is going to sacrifice to the Lord our God?

Gen 43:32
And they set on for him by himself, and for them by themselves, and for the Egyptians, which did eat with him, by themselves: because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Gen 46:34
That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Thy servants

Gen 46:32; Gen 30:35; Gen 34:5; Gen 37:12

for every

From the fragments of Manetho, preserved in Josephus and Africanus, it appears that hordes of marauders, call hycassos, or shepherd kings, whose chief occupation, like the Bedouin Arabs of the present day, was to keep flocks, made a powerful irruption into Egypt, which they subdued, and ruled, by a succession of kings, with great tyranny for 259 years. Hence the persons, and even the very name of shepherds were execrated, and held in the greatest odium by the Egyptians. Gen 43:32; Exo 8:26

Was Moses being sent into the wilderness to sacrifice the shepherds?

Isa 56:11
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Jer 25:34
Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
Jer 25:35
And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
Jer 25:36
A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.

Jer 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Eze 34:2
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Eze 34:7
Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9
Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Zec 11:3
There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
Zec 11:5
Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.

Zec 11:8
Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

hmm

ok then,
thinking...
Hugs

 

[Episkopos]

Then you haven't heard what I said.

In fact I believe you did hear me, and are simply deflecting as always.

Much love!

You've come to vent on another one of my threads...without engaging the theme of the thread...just another ego rant. The problem with molly-coddling the flesh is that it then demands it. Read the bible, not from what you can get out of it...but rather first what needs to go...then you will be wiser.

 

[marks]

The problem with molly-coddling the flesh is that it then demands it.

Yes, this is the problem. When you give in too many times it becomes more difficult to stop. And when you refuse to acknowledge the truth, it makes it nearly impossible, and I pray that God will give you a new and fresh view of yourself, that you may see clearly to remove what needs removed.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

Matthew 18 The first principle is a process for holding one another accountable. If you believe your brother or sister has sinned, Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15–17 is to “go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

 

[Episkopos]

Matthew 18 The first principle is a process for holding one another accountable. If you believe your brother or sister has sinned, Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15–17 is to “go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Tim. 3:7

 

[amigo de christo]

Matthew 18 The first principle is a process for holding one another accountable. If you believe your brother or sister has sinned, Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15–17 is to “go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

Yet i ask us all a question .
IS this what many churches now teach and still do .
OR
and this is a OAR that wont help to steer the boat at all ,
OR have they been rather saying , JUDGE NOT , CORRECT NOT
and thus the leaven has taken many captive to a lie now .

 

[amigo de christo]

Matthew 18 The first principle is a process for holding one another accountable. If you believe your brother or sister has sinned, Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15–17 is to “go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

what happens if they wont hear . two or more witnesses
what happens if they still refuse to repent
and then what happens if even then they refuse to cease ..............cast them out , let them be as a pagan unto you .
I know for sure and for certain THIS pattern is no longer kept by most all churches now .
And then after some time a few start saying HOW ON EARTH did it get to this point in the churches .........
WELL if we wont correct error , WHAT DO WE THINK is gonna happen . LEAVEN loveth TO LEAVEN THE ENTIRE LUMP .
IT must be corrected . Ol amigo is not the hater i be accused of being but rather am doing all to look out for the welfare
and good of the believers . NOW HIT them trenches rita , we in a war for the souls of men
and ONLY JESUS SAVES . THE DIRE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED to begin again to PREACH ON THE DIRE AND ABSOLUTE NEED
to BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST , MUST BE FOREFRONT in all places . Cause its all in vain if one believeth not
on JESUS THE CHRIST . and i mean ITS ALL IN VAIN .

 

[amigo de christo]

Repeat . IT IS ALL IN VAIN if one believes NOT on JESUS THE CHRIST but rather denies HIM .
THERE IS NO salvation found in any other religion or mindset , no matter how often it taught aspects about truth
about doing good . ITS ALL IN VAIN if one BELIEVES NOT but rejects the TESTIMONY THAT GOD HIMSELF
TESTIFIED OF THE SON . THIS message will more and more start not being accepted
as more and more inclusivity and diversity takes over the hearts of men . YET IT BE THE ONLY GOSPEL THAT SAVES
or will have saved a soul . Paul didnt preach common ground and good works , HE PREACHED
the ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO REPENT AND BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST and reminded them TO DO GOOD .. as DID THEY ALL , THUS AS SHOULD WE ALL .

 

[Lizbeth]

I have trouble with some contradictions.
Thou shalt not kill. Some say murder, the bible says kill, I don't care which it is the cessasion of life.
If someone breaks the law, kill them.

Moses killed a man, by rights he should of been stoned and expected as much from the Egyptians when they found out, so he fled.
It was Egypt that instituted stoning. Stoning isn't in the bible until it says Moses was afraid the Egyptians would stone him for making sacrifices in the wilderness.

Exo 8:26
And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?

What exactly is the abomination of the Egyptians that Moses is going to sacrifice to the Lord our God?

Gen 43:32
And they set on for him by himself, and for them by themselves, and for the Egyptians, which did eat with him, by themselves: because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Gen 46:34
That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Thy servants

Gen 46:32; Gen 30:35; Gen 34:5; Gen 37:12

for every

From the fragments of Manetho, preserved in Josephus and Africanus, it appears that hordes of marauders, call hycassos, or shepherd kings, whose chief occupation, like the Bedouin Arabs of the present day, was to keep flocks, made a powerful irruption into Egypt, which they subdued, and ruled, by a succession of kings, with great tyranny for 259 years. Hence the persons, and even the very name of shepherds were execrated, and held in the greatest odium by the Egyptians. Gen 43:32; Exo 8:26

Was Moses being sent into the wilderness to sacrifice the shepherds?

Isa 56:11
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Jer 25:34
Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
Jer 25:35
And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
Jer 25:36
A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.

Jer 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Eze 34:2
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Eze 34:7
Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9
Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Zec 11:3
There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
Zec 11:5
Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.

Zec 11:8
Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

hmm

ok then,
thinking...
Hugs

I think God gives false shepherds and their sheep over to death in a spiritual way.

And I am not sure but suspect that maybe the abomination of the Egyptians to be sacrificed to God was simply the sheep that the Egyptians abhorred....? I doubt that the the Israelites were going to sacrifice humans and eat them.....eek!

But I'm a bit confused as to whether you're talking about the church as such, or governments and authorities of the world. I believe governments of the world are supposed to be His arm of justice (insofar as they are being just) and the church is something separate as His arm of mercy. Scripture says governments and authorities are his ministers to mete out punishments for wrongdoing and don't bear the sword for nothing. As such I think capital punishment is just in some instances, as long as there truly isn't any doubt as to the perpetrator. Israel under the Law was used by God to mete out His justice to those who were in the promised land whose transgression had come to the full, the pagans there, Canaanites. Israel was His battle axe and weapon of war to punish the heathen nations round about them. But that is not our mandate as the church.....we are not wrestling with flesh and blood but with powers and principalities, and our weapons are not carnal....and our concern is the mercy that triumphs over justice....loosing and forgiving of sins....and granting freedom and life to those who were condemned to die. But I don't know if this is addressing your train of thought or not.

 

[David H.]

what happens if they wont hear . two or more witnesses

Sometimes though, the two or more witnesses are wrong, like Job's friends.

 

[Episkopos]

Sometimes though, the two or more witnesses are wrong, like Job's friends.

Or else the multitude in the wilderness who, together with chief leaders Jannes and Jambre, complained that they were not getting their proper due.

"Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was." 2 Tim. 3:8,9

 

[NayborBear]

Repeat . IT IS ALL IN VAIN if one believes NOT on JESUS THE CHRIST but rather denies HIM .
THERE IS NO salvation found in any other religion or mindset , no matter how often it taught aspects about truth
about doing good . ITS ALL IN VAIN if one BELIEVES NOT but rejects the TESTIMONY THAT GOD HIMSELF
TESTIFIED OF THE SON . THIS message will more and more start not being accepted
as more and more inclusivity and diversity takes over the hearts of men . YET IT BE THE ONLY GOSPEL THAT SAVES
or will have saved a soul . Paul didnt preach common ground and good works , HE PREACHED
the ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO REPENT AND BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST and reminded them TO DO GOOD .. as DID THEY ALL , THUS AS SHOULD WE ALL .

It's the same 'ol thing! The "me" Christianity!
Long as me is "saved?"
WHY go ON to the Father?
SAME "Spirit" Mind ya!
DIFFERENT (part/s) of the GOVERNMENT of the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Light!
Whereas the "me" Christian/s have sadly fallen into that which Paul referred to as different or differing parts of the Body of Christ Saying "We have NO Need for these "comlier" parts!"
Makes ya wanna bang yer head against a wall for all the good it accomplishes!