What is so wrong with Calvinism ?

[Scott Downey]

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"who were born" of God are those who received Him.
1 John 5
English Standard Version

1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

What always comes first is God. God does His work inside you, and then you believe
John 6
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[atpollard]

I said its a Cult.
See, you can always spot the cults, by how they deny the Grace of God as being eternally established, by GOD Through Christ, and not by them.

Universalism and New Age are both CULTS built upon an all-loving ‘mother’ creator easily molded into the idol of your choice.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah and you tried to build a premise that Calvinism is wrong based on one work of one man that Calvinism isn't even truly based on. That's the point.

I've got some questions maybe you could answer.

What does Calvin say is the "gospel"?

What happened in 1689 for you to chose that along with reformed?

The T - total depravity - does Calvin teach we are still totally depraved after being cleansed by Christ? IOW are we still sinners?

 

[Marine0311]

None of those refute Calvinism.
God grants faith to believe in Christ, then people do exercise it and believe. They come to know who Christ is by direct revelation from God, otherwise none will follow Christ as they have enmity in their heart (the old man of the flesh) against God and Christ, they follow the prince of the powers of the air, Ephesians 2, until God makes them alive who were dead, by the means of faith which God gives.
You can escape all the confusion if you understand to be born of The Spirit is of God at the will of the Father and not of the will of the man.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Jesus said scripture can not be broken.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Every verse I quoted refutes calvinism. Read them again without the Calvinist blinders. If John 3:16 was the only scripture there was I would understand that Calvinism is a lie straight from the pits of hell. Calvinism through their perverted view of election and foreknowledge make God a duplicitous, deceitful, dishonest , and a god who lies God cannot lie. Calvinism has changed the gospel of a God who loves His creation into a god who condemned people to hell before He created the heavens and earth.

 

[Scott Downey]

Every verse I quoted refutes calvinism. Read them again without the Calvinist blinders. If John 3:16 was the only scripture there was I would understand that Calvinism is a lie straight from the pits of hell. Calvinism through their perverted view of election and foreknowledge make God a duplicitous, deceitful, dishonest , and a god who lies God cannot lie. Calvinism has changed the gospel of a God who loves His creation into a god who condemned people to hell before He created the heavens and earth.

What your speaking is just opinion, you own personal commentary. Your cherry picking verses that you think support your opinion. What your doing is what Peter warned about, a private interpretation, uninspired.

 

[Scott Downey]

Every verse I quoted refutes calvinism. Read them again without the Calvinist blinders. If John 3:16 was the only scripture there was I would understand that Calvinism is a lie straight from the pits of hell. Calvinism through their perverted view of election and foreknowledge make God a duplicitous, deceitful, dishonest , and a god who lies God cannot lie. Calvinism has changed the gospel of a God who loves His creation into a god who condemned people to hell before He created the heavens and earth.

Since your hanging yourself on the word 'calvanism'
here is an entire passage that also supports God's choosing of people to be saved, when, how, why, HE did so, while rejecting those who choose not to love the truths of God and sending them a strong delusion to believe the LIE of the world. God gave first group over to their unsaved reprobate natural mind, then God deluded them into thinking it was true. The second group who God saves, begins in v13, and notice it was not due to anything they did, this was God's choice according to election, before they had done anything either good or bad.

2 Thessalonians 2

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Fast
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

 

[WalkInLight]

that is not the institutes but thanks

I have seen young believers who have had very aberrant lives, have this real conviction they could never come to Christ unless He drew them, and what christians are is something they felt they would never be.

This sense of failure and lostness, has a true theme of the chosen are called and the lost are lost.
And this is true, but maybe not a fully as people suppose.

I have met a guy who was literally the opposite of me theologically, felt no one chooses to believe or can walk away, but agreed some of the TULIP principles were wrong. He was so convinced of his approach he was determined to show me as a self righteous sinner trying to prove my value before God.

I now realise he was right, in part. We are all self righteous to a degree when we recognise the work the Lord has done in our hearts and rejoice at the love we express to others. In another sense we fail as we stumble and find issues that seem unsurmountable, but are working on. So we are depraved in some degree, though Jesus is working on us, while cleansing and making us Holy. The Temple shows us we are not perfect, but have a way of cleansing and forgiveness that matters. We love to think we can arrive, when it is a process and a walk.

So in part I am calvanistic and also armenian. On an emotional scale this makes sense, because each emphasis is true but also not absolute. So the dilemma has been both are right to a degree in their declarations, but totally wrong in their animosity of the other position. Paul expressed this about pointless arguments, which you see through the ages between sincere loving people desiring to follow the Lord in the best way they know how.

Jesus's criticism of the pharisees was not their legalism, but their hypocrisy and lack of love. Without love, their is no Jesus in the situation.
But equally without us giving space to people as they discover the mysteries of the wonder of Jesus, there is not growth.

God bless you

 

[Marine0311]

Since your hanging yourself on the word 'calvanism'
here is an entire passage that also supports God's choosing of people to be saved, when, how, why, HE did so, while rejecting those who choose not to love the truths of God and sending them a strong delusion to believe the LIE of the world. God gave first group over to their unsaved reprobate natural mind, then God deluded them into thinking it was true. The second group who God saves, begins in v13, and notice it was not due to anything they did, this was God's choice according to election, before they had done anything either good or bad.

2 Thessalonians 2

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Fast
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

 

[Marine0311]

Paul was not the messiah ! You need to re-read John 3 . Calvinism is in direct confrontation with what Jesus taught. Rev 22:17 - And the Spiritand the bride say, Come. Andlet him that heareth say,Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. God does NOT believe for YOU, God does NOT repent for YOU. God requires that YOU believe, and that YOU repent. God commanded Adam and Eve to not eat off of the tree if He then predetermined they ate off of the tree He would be duplicitous, dishonest, and a liar and God cannot lie. Calvinism has changed the gospel that Jesus taught, and died to establish to follow the errors of a Roman Catholic lawyer who became a theologian named Calvin. The apple of Calvinism didn’t fall far from the tree of the Roman Catholic Church. You are ignoring and changing all of scripture to fit into your errors. E.g.

2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,as some men count-slackness; but is longsufferingto us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

 

[ChristisGod]

I have seen young believers who have had very aberrant lives, have this real conviction they could never come to Christ unless He drew them, and what christians are is something they felt they would never be.

This sense of failure and lostness, has a true theme of the chosen are called and the lost are lost.
And this is true, but maybe not a fully as people suppose.

I have met a guy who was literally the opposite of me theologically, felt no one chooses to believe or can walk away, but agreed some of the TULIP principles were wrong. He was so convinced of his approach he was determined to show me as a self righteous sinner trying to prove my value before God.

I now realise he was right, in part. We are all self righteous to a degree when we recognise the work the Lord has done in our hearts and rejoice at the love we express to others. In another sense we fail as we stumble and find issues that seem unsurmountable, but are working on. So we are depraved in some degree, though Jesus is working on us, while cleansing and making us Holy. The Temple shows us we are not perfect, but have a way of cleansing and forgiveness that matters. We love to think we can arrive, when it is a process and a walk.

So in part I am calvanistic and also armenian. On an emotional scale this makes sense, because each emphasis is true but also not absolute. So the dilemma has been both are right to a degree in their declarations, but totally wrong in their animosity of the other position. Paul expressed this about pointless arguments, which you see through the ages between sincere loving people desiring to follow the Lord in the best way they know how.

Jesus's criticism of the pharisees was not their legalism, but their hypocrisy and lack of love. Without love, their is no Jesus in the situation.
But equally without us giving space to people as they discover the mysteries of the wonder of Jesus, there is not growth.

God bless you

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights on the topic.

 

[Marine0311]

Universalism and New Age are both CULTS built upon an all-loving ‘mother’ creator easily molded into the idol of your choice.

I agree universal salvation is wrong, but the universal invitation is valid John 3:16 and Revelation 22:17 prove the invitation is universal.