What is the Bible about?
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Aunty Jane
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God’s patience with Israel wasn’t eternal however....Israel was a vehicle, like Mary was a vehicle....a way to fulfill his prophesies and to accomplish his purpose. God’s love for Israel was based on his love for Abraham, the only man in all of the Bible to be called “Jehovah’s friend”. (James 2:23)
Genesis 22:18....
“And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice.’”
“The children of Israel” were descendents of Jacob, (grandson of Abraham and heir along with his father Isaac and grandfather of the promise to produce the savior). Jacob’s name was changed to Israel. But Israel’s history was a sad tale of disobedience, false worship and betrayal of the covenant God made with their forefather.....
God kept that wayward nation as his “people” despite the fact that they were serial covenant breakers.
He kept his part of the Abrahamic covenant, as well as the agreement they made at Mt Sinai of their own volition, following their release from slavery in Egypt. They vowed to obey Jehovah in all things, but the vow was hollow....they never stayed loyal to their God and often fell to worshipping the false gods of the nations, sacrificing their own children at one point. Do you honestly believe that God wanted to keep them in existence because of their continued disobedience and betrayal?
Exodus 32:9-10...
“Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “I have seen that this is an obstinate people. 10 So now let me be, and I will exterminate them in my burning anger, and let me make a great nation from you instead.”
Yet he kept forgiving them when they repented after often severe punishments. Why did he do that? Because his Messiah had to come through Abraham’s family line...through Jacob, Judah, and on through descendents of King David. Satan’s attempts down through history to break that family line were always thwarted by Jehovah who made sure that all the prophesies written about the Messiah would be fulfilled. That is why he kept forgiving Israel....UNTIL the time came for the Christ to be born and raised and to take up his role as Messiah. Israel were given first opportunity to make up the heirs of the Kingdom, which is why Jesus preached exclusively to the Jews. Only after his death and resurrection were Gentiles received into the Christian arrangement.
Jesus did not have a good thing to say about the Jewish religious establishment because he knew that they had never changed in all the centuries of their existence. (Matt 15:7-9)
Matthew 23:37-39...
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”
These very ones orchestrated the murder of God’s own son....and in the intervening 2000 years since his death, the Jews as a people have continued to reject Jesus as Messiah, waiting In vain for him to come to them on their terms.....he will never show up.
God has “abandoned” fleshly Israel......He chose a new “Israel”...a spiritual body of faithful followers of his son, who will reign with Christ in heaven as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6) This body Paul called “the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians......these ones, God can count on to be faithful and obedient, unlike their predecessors.
Individuals from the Jewish nation will come to Christ and ‘bless the one who came in Jehovah’s name’, but the nation as a whole will be disobedient and unbelieving, obstinate till their end.
Reading through the scriptures we see that God used Israel for his purpose and that because they broke their covenants with him, he had every right to abandon them to the nations as part of this world. Right up to this day they ally themselves to people whose worship they despise.....their forefathers did the same and when they did, they never had God’s backing. They are spillers of blood like all the rest...their prayers like those of Christendom are in vain, because they have blood on their hands. (Isaiah 1:15)
Christians do not shed blood.....Jesus told us to ‘love our enemies and to pray for them’......that gives us no licence to kill them. (Matthew 5:43-44)
2 Corinthians 10:3-5....Paul says our warfare is entirely spiritual....
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ.”
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GISMYS_7
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Aunty Jane
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You have to ignore a lot of scripture to cling to that notion concerning literal Israel.....but whatever floats your boat....time will tell, won’t it....?
face2face
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We have been over this many time's Jane and its you who ignore a lot of Scripture! Your forefathers believed in the future restoration of Israel to the Holy Land (and into the New covenant) and you have many books in your library that teach you so. Charles would be disgusted in what you have done to that doctrine.
F2F
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
God's love for Israel is eternal=Romans=11; I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
God’s love for Israel is unfailing.
“‘Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet My unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor My covenant of peace be removed,’ says the Lord, who has compassion on you” (Isaiah 54:10).
God’s love for Israel is unfailing.
“‘Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet My unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor My covenant of peace be removed,’ says the Lord, who has compassion on you” (Isaiah 54:10).
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
What did the Christians have to do once the Jews threw them out of the synagogues? Jesus did not come to start a new religion...he came to call the “lost sheep” out of a corrupted religious system that no longer represented the worship of the true God.
He did not reject the Jews as individuals because God sent Jesus exclusively to his own people, and many came to Christ and became his followers, accepting him as Messiah. The majority however, did not, but cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25)
Which is why God chose a new “Israel”.....”the Israel of God” that Paul spoke about (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians.....the Condemned Jewish nation of fleshly Israel were cast off as John the Baptist had said to the Pharisees.....
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matt 3:7-10)
God raised up children for Abraham from the Gentiles, after the the majority of the Jewish people stuck with the lies told by their religious leaders, justifying the murder of their own Messiah. The ax fell, and Israel’s day had come. They uttered the curse with their own lips. Jesus own words condemned them....”your house is abandoned to you”. Anyone who stayed in that “house” was condemned along with their “blind guides”.
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GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Who finds this inspired scripture hard to understand???? Romans=11; I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You are ignoring the verses that state the contrary.....does the Bible contradict itself?
There was no impediment for any Jew to come to Christ and accept him as Messiah.....but as a nation, the Jews rejected Christ (and to this day they still do) and were then rejected by God for their ongoing disobedience and the murder of their Savior.
Jesus told us that their “house” was “abandoned”, not that the people were. Who are “God’s people” today?
“God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” (Acts 10:34-35)
Anyone can come to Christ as a disciple, but they have to abandon all false worship......even if it claims to be “Christian”. Those not obeying the Christ will suffer rejection as those he....“never knew”. (Matt 7:21-23)
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Romans 11:25-32===
25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
If you say so....spiritual Israel replaced natural Israel.....you can believe whatever you wish.....
Johann
Well-Known Member
Do you even understand what you are posting?
וְהֵבֵאתִ֤י and I will bringאֶתְכֶם֙ youאֶל־ intoהָאָ֔רֶץ the landאֲשֶׁ֤ר whichנָשָׂ֙אתִי֙ I sworeאֶת־ -יָדִ֔י -לָתֵ֣ת to giveאֹתָ֔הּ -לְאַבְרָהָ֥ם to Abraham,לְיִצְחָ֖ק to Isaac,וּֽלְיַעֲקֹ֑ב and to Jacob;וְנָתַתִּ֨י and I will giveאֹתָ֥הּ itלָכֶ֛ם to youמוֹרָשָׁ֖ה [as] a heritage.אֲנִ֥י Iיְהוָֽה׃ [am] YHWH! 9 וַיְדַבֵּ֥ר so spokeמֹשֶׁ֛ה Mosesכֵּ֖ן thusאֶל־ toבְּנֵ֣י the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל of Israel,וְלֹ֤א but notשָֽׁמְעוּ֙ they did heedאֶל־ untoמֹשֶׁ֔ה Moses,מִקֹּ֣צֶר because of anguishר֔וּחַ of spiritוּמֵעֲבֹדָ֖ה and bondageקָשָֽׁה׃פ cruel. 10 וַיְדַבֵּ֥ר and spokeיְהוָ֖ה YHWHאֶל־ toמֹשֶׁ֥ה Moses,לֵּאמֹֽר׃ saying, 11 בֹּ֣א go in,דַבֵּ֔ר tellאֶל־ untoפַּרְעֹ֖ה Pharaohמֶ֣לֶךְ kingמִצְרָ֑יִם of Egyptוִֽישַׁלַּ֥ח to let goאֶת־ -בְּנֵֽי־ the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל of Israelמֵאַרְצֽוֹ׃ out of his land. 12 וַיְדַבֵּ֣ר and spokeמֹשֶׁ֔ה Mosesלִפְנֵ֥י beforeיְהוָ֖ה YHWH,לֵאמֹ֑ר saying,הֵ֤ן behold,בְּנֵֽי־ the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵל֙ of Israelלֹֽא־ notשָׁמְע֣וּ have heededאֵלַ֔י me;וְאֵיךְ֙ then howיִשְׁמָעֵ֣נִי shall heed meפַרְעֹ֔ה Pharaoh,וַאֲנִ֖י for I [am]עֲרַ֥ל of uncircumcisedשְׂפָתָֽיִם׃פ lips?2 13 וַיְדַבֵּ֣ר and spokeיְהוָה֮ YHWHאֶל־ toמֹשֶׁ֣ה Mosesוְאֶֽל־ andאַהֲרֹן֒ Aaronוַיְצַוֵּם֙ and gave them a commandאֶל־ forבְּנֵ֣י the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל of Israelוְאֶל־ and forפַּרְעֹ֖ה Pharaohמֶ֣לֶךְ kingמִצְרָ֑יִם of Egypt,לְהוֹצִ֥יא to bringאֶת־ -בְּנֵֽי־ the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל of Israelמֵאֶ֥רֶץ out of the landמִצְרָֽיִם׃ס of Egypt-
Much easier to do it this way.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
In regards to the OP, the bible, as we have it, is a detailing of God's character, his love of man, his plans and his commands for believers to follow !
Now, it can be, and is argued, as to what is the true form of the bible, per preferred translation of individuals. However, the apostle Paul said this,
Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Regardless it's archaic language, it's multiple diverse definitions of words; the word of God explains unto any that will believe, his plan of redemption for mankind and the reconciliation of the lost unto righteousness in him !
Now, it can be, and is argued, as to what is the true form of the bible, per preferred translation of individuals. However, the apostle Paul said this,
Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Regardless it's archaic language, it's multiple diverse definitions of words; the word of God explains unto any that will believe, his plan of redemption for mankind and the reconciliation of the lost unto righteousness in him !
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
I choose to believe God's Word!!!And you????===
Romans 11:25-32===
25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written.
Ezekiel 39==
Israel =will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
Romans 11:25-32===
25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written.
Ezekiel 39==
Israel =will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
- It reminds me of Daniel prayer for the restoration of Jerusalem and the answer of Yah.weh!
- Restoration followed by destruction!
- It is a strange love!
- It also reminds me of the new Jerusalem coming from heaven really different from the old one (Revelation 21)!
- It has nothing but nothing from the human old city!
- This one is really precious!
- And there is no more human temple because Yah.weh and the Lamb are its temple!
- Completely different!
- And nothing unclean will never enter it nor anyone who practices an abominat(ion or a lie but only those whose names are written in the lamb's book of life!
- Not for me!
- I chose Biblehub because it not only gives the original and its translation but also the grammar of the words and a dictionary at the same time!
- The way you put it has absolutely no interest for me!
- I am a linguist and this way is too limited!
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