What is the difference between the indwelling Spirit and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[Ritajanice]

St. SteVen said:
All this to say that you don't believe in the Baptism with the Spirit?

I was responding to Karl Peters, not you.

Do you have good news about your health condition?

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St. SteVen said:
All this to say that you don't believe in the Baptism with the Spirit?

I was responding to Karl Peters, not you.

Ok.

Do you have good news about your health condition?

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Next week after blood test...since I’ve been on new medication and drinking 2 litres of water, I haven’t once gone into AF..8 evenings free so far from AF...don’t you think that must be due to me changing my drinking habit and taking the new medication?

Thanks for asking.

 

[Ritajanice]

St. SteVen said:
Or at least not as a subsequent experience after the indwelling which comes when we believe?

You said that you speak in tongues. That is evidence of Holy Spirit baptism.

I said I used to, I haven’t spoken in tongues in years..

Here's one of my topics on the subject, if that helps. Or, you may prefer to be pig-headed about it. (as you wish)

I’ve just posted 3 posts above on what I believe....I will certainly read it..thank you.

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit. Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues. But...

www.christianityboard.com

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[St. SteVen]

Next week after blood test...since I’ve been on new medication and drinking 2 litres of water, I haven’t once gone into AF..8 evenings free so far from AF...don’t you think that must be due to me changing my drinking habit and taking the new medication?

Thanks for asking.

Excellent. Thanks for the update.
May God grant you peace and well-being as you continue.

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[Ritajanice]

St. SteVen said:
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not in conflict with being born again.

Agree.

St. SteVen said:
It's not one or the other, it's both.

Right. Born again comes first. (usually)
As I have said already. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience.

That’s what you believe, I posted what I believe it means to be baptised in the Spirit.

The house of Cornelius (Acts 10) raises some interesting questions.
We can't really put the Holy Spirit in a box. He is very unpredictable.

I haven’t put the Holy Spirit in a box....I have explained above in other posts , what I believe it means to be baptised in the Spirit, ..we are used by God as and when it suits him...can come when one is not expecting it.

At the house of Cornelius, Peter was still preaching when the listeners began speaking in tongues and praising God.
Hard to determine at what point they were born again. It all seemed to come at once.
Notice that verse 44 says that the Holy Spirit came ON them. (not in initially)

Acts 10:44-48 NIV
While Peter was still speaking these words,
the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter
were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit
had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.
Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

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I didn’t become Born Again like they did 2,000 years ago...being Baptised in the Spirit comes after we’re Born Again, ...it comes from the Spirit with power and authority......he gives us that power and authority by baptising us to do his will....it’s not a permanent indwelling..

Different belief of what it means...no problems.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Here's one of my topics on the subject, if that helps.

I’ve just posted 3 posts above on what I believe....I will certainly read it..thank you.

The topic is intended to challenge the belief that speaking in tongues is the ONLY evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit. Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues. But...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Ritajanice]

St. SteVen said:
Here's one of my topics on the subject, if that helps.

The topic is intended to challenge the belief that speaking in tongues is the ONLY evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit. Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues. But...

www.christianityboard.com

[

I am afraid you and I don’t have the same belief as what it means to be baptised in the Spirit..

If one speaks in tongues does that mean that they have been Born Again....the word already says that without the Spirit we are none of His....

We’re both not understanding each other...as to what Born Again means...or what it means to be baptised in the Spirit.

In Mark 1:8 and John 1:33, the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus "will baptize in (the) Holy Spirit"; while in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16, he "will baptize with Holy Spirit and fire". Jesus is considered the first person to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit

Jesus was baptised with authority and power as he was God’s Son..he wasn’t Born Again like we must be imo @St. SteVen .

Jesus being Born Again makes no sense to me, as he was already Gods Son....we became sons/ daughters of God, when our spirit was Born Again..by Christ Holy Spirit.

Jesus was begotten, we weren’t we were spiritually birthed..

He was the first fruit...then you get his Brother and Sisters the Born Again, we are joined to the true vine spiritually......we follow and learn from him.
Short commentary
Jesus was the only person to be born of a mortal mother, Mary, and an immortal father, God the Father. That is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son of God. From His Father, He inherited divine powers (see John 10:17–18).


It says that Jesus inherited divine powers...I believe he was baptised with power and authority, I’m not saying I’m right, at the end of the day we’re all trying to make sense of being Baptised in the Spirit, well I certainly am that’s for sure...I’m going to give my head a rest lol, as it’s starting to get muddled @St. SteVen ...catch you later...lol

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus was baptised with authority and power as he was God’s Son..he wasn’t Born Again like we must be imo @St. SteVen .

That's actually a good example of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't need to be born again. (the regeneration of our spirit)
What He did need was power from on high to perform the acts that Father God was leading Him into.
Not an indwelling. The Spirit of God was upon Him.

At His water baptism we see all three members of the godhead in attendance.
I think this pattern continued in Acts chapter 2. After Peter's sermon 3,000 were
water baptized and received the Spirit. (with evidence)

Matthew 3:16-17 NIV
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water.
At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

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[Ritajanice]

That's actually a good example of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't need to be born again. (the regeneration of our spirit)
What He did need was power from on high to perform the acts that Father God was leading Him into.
Not an indwelling. The Spirit of God was upon Him.

Exactly.

At His water baptism we see all three members of the godhead in attendance.
I think this pattern continued in Acts chapter 2. After Peter's sermon 3,000 were
water baptized and received the Spirit. (with evidence)

Matthew 3:16-17 NIV
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water.
At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

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I’m not really understanding this bit....no worries, we will all get there, in Gods timing...that’s if it’s his will for me to understand...
There is so much that I don’t understand...

The only thing I 100% understand is that I’m Born Again, that’s enough for me....it’s good to get one’s thoughts down though, makes us think.....we’re trying to seek God out with our heart, so all good.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hello Carl Emerson!!

Hello Titus... what is on your mind ???

 

[Titus]

Hello Titus... what is on your mind ???

I just have never met anyone from New Zealand.
That land is mysterious to me.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I just have never met anyone from New Zealand.
That land is mysterious to me.

Yes... it is mysterious to me as well, given what the politicians are doing to it...

Here is an example...

Govt gives 4M to indigenous group who use it to record the sounds of Whales off shore and playing the sounds to trees in the forrest to heal a serious tree disease. (sigh...)

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

At what point does a believer join the Body of Christ?

In a previous topic I asked the question: Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized? https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/can-a-believer-be-a-part-of-the-body-of-christ-without-being-water-baptized.67769/ Lack of response and seeming confusion caused by...

www.christianityboard.com

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

At what point does a believer join the Body of Christ?

In a previous topic I asked the question: Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized? https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/can-a-believer-be-a-part-of-the-body-of-christ-without-being-water-baptized.67769/ Lack of response and seeming confusion caused by...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Titus]

Yes... it is mysterious to me as well, given what the politicians are doing to it...

Here is an example...

Govt gives 4M to indigenous group who use it to record the sounds of Whales off shore and playing the sounds to trees in the forrest to heal a serious tree disease. (sigh...)

You gave me a good laugh!!! Thanks!!! This post is hilarious and depressing at the same time.

 

[Carl Emerson]

New topic:

At what point does a believer join the Body of Christ?

In a previous topic I asked the question: Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized? https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/can-a-believer-be-a-part-of-the-body-of-christ-without-being-water-baptized.67769/ Lack of response and seeming confusion caused by...

www.christianityboard.com

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This is an interesting one...

From Col 1:

12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

This transference is the critical issue as it indicates a change of ownership.

Personally I think this can happen before a person has entered the door of a church.

However being in fellowship is also critical as spiritual safety comes from sanctified fellowship.

Baptism is a powerful renunciation of darkness so is also a central event in the community of faith and the life if the believer in Christ..

All these elements of faith need to be respected and God can bend the 'rules' and change the sequence (which upsets the theologisers)

As to when we receive the indwelling presence of the Spirit - this also varies - sometimes at Baptism, sometimes before baptism.

We have no record of the apostles being baptised (except Paul) and they were all filled.

Those out in the world where Jesus is moving see Him fill folks - like my friend who picked up Nicky Gumbel's book in a backpackers, went through the steps in the appendix about becoming a Christian and whammo overcome by Gods power, filled, immersed - he became a Pastor. I have no doubt he received Jesus internally before Baptism.

Let us rejoice together in what Jesus is doing in lives and stop trying to hold Him to account by human reason.

 

[Ezra]

the filling of the Holy Spirit.

when we are filled with the spirit it means we have room for nothing else !!!!! right ? yes so just how spirit filled are we ? btw i dont believe in a one time filling paul said to be transformed by the renewing of our mind which is a 24/7 process

 

[LittleTuneAlright]

In a previous topic I asked a question about...

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

Here are the facts:
1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God)
2) They had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) But the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them. (had not yet "come on" any of them?)
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (prayed for them)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
They were water baptized believers in the Lord Jesus.

- There was evidence that they were believers. (as stated in the text)
- There was evidence that they had been water baptized. (as stated in the text)
- There was, however, no evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit. (as stated in the text)

What evidence were the Apostles looking for?
"Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." - Acts 8:17 NIV
("When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit," - vs 15)
This text doesn't tell us. We'll have to look elsewhere.

Let me restate...
I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed.
They were missing something else. That something else is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (the Spirit "on" them)

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So is this "indwelling" related to the Great Commission?
Did those people in Samaria, who was not indwelt with the Spirit but had Faith in Christ, did they take part in spreading the gospel like the apostles?

Have to admit, I have not read all of the book of Acts, so forgive my lack of knowledge.

 

[St. SteVen]

So is this "indwelling" related to the Great Commission?

Only in the sense that making disciples requires a renewed relationship with God.
The Holy Spirit indwells the new believer.

Did those people in Samaria, who was not indwelt with the Spirit but had Faith in Christ, did they take part in spreading the gospel like the apostles?

The water baptized believers in Samaria WERE indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This is the reason for this topic.
When the Apostles were informed that they had not received the Spirit, they were referring to the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
What happened next? "Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." - Acts 8:17 NIV
This begs the question: what evidence were the Apostles looking for?

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?​

Have to admit, I have not read all of the book of Acts, so forgive my lack of knowledge.

I would highly recommend that you do.
It is said that the Apostle Luke wrote the book of Acts.
So the Gospel account of Luke serves as a companion reading.
Luke's emphasis on the Holy Spirit in His Gospel is evident. (as I recall)

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[St. SteVen]

Did those people in Samaria, who was not indwelt with the Spirit but had Faith in Christ, did they take part in spreading the gospel like the apostles?

I'm not aware of the people in Samaria spreading the gospel like the apostles.
Here's something to consider.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit can be rather unpredictable.
- After the outpouring at Pentecost it seemed to come automatically with water baptism. (3,000 water baptized)
- In Samaria it didn't come automatically with water baptism. The Apostles laid hands on them.
- Ananias laid hands on Saul. Then he was water baptized. (note: Ananias was not an Apostle)
- At the house of Cornelius the Spirit fell while Peter was still preaching. Then the gentiles were water baptized.
- In Ephesus the Apostle Paul water baptized the disciples of Apollos in Jesus' name and then laid hands on them.

The laying on of hands has continued as a regular practice today as a subsequent experience.
But some receive the Spirit spontaneously. I love those testimonies. - LOL

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[Rockerduck]

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Everyone who becomes born again from above through the saving Faith in Jesus Christ, receives the Holy Spirit of promise and is sealed until the day redemption; it is the invisible mark of God.

The filling(boosting) of the Holy Spirit - is a special calling for preaching word of God. Before Pentecost, there was a temporary filling of the Holy Spirit, with exceptions. After Pentecost, and after you are saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you can be filled(boosted) when called upon for preaching. It is a special calling for men of God. The Holy Spirit enables you to speak with authority and boldness. You already have the Holy Spirit, but the word "filling" does not quite describe the calling. I have experienced this many times when preaching.

Acts 4:8 - Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:
Acts 13:9 - Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him

These are examples of the Preacher calling, and the boost of boldness.