Oh but He is! And an omniscient one at that with a prodigious memory! The best accountant in the universe...not one jot or tittle of anyone's heart and life escapes Him! Though of course thankfully that isn't all He is.
What is the gospel?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I am sure you heard this before sister but allow me some parting words .
Having a form of godliness but denying the Power thereof . Epi preaches a form of godliness
he believes to be attainable , a cross that is attainable without having FIRST to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS .
I seen this man at work for a long time . His idea that muslims , buddists , atheiests can all somehow pick up that cross
WITHOUT faith in CHRIST , DENYS THE TOTAL POWER of GOD , which is the GOSPEL
and rather puts the power to attain it IN MANS HANDS . ITS NUTTING MORE than a WORKS gospel .
THIS concept , however is part of the inclusive plan to merge all as one under what they BELIEVE to be GOD .
only as you well know IT AINT . There is a saying that goes like this
The devil wears prada . But i say , OH he can wear much more than prada , HE can indeed strap on WOOL
and enter into any church or building and through his minstirs wrapped in wool , can surely DECIEVE .
It's as though he is talking about his own experience sometimes, that he only had mental assent at first and only thought he was born again.....and assumes that is the same with us believers. And then he was born again for real and is calling that a higher walk, when in fact it is really just the walk of the born again. It's as though his starting point is one step behind our starting point and what we are talking about, and that is why we are out of kilter and out of step with one another in some of these items of discussion. Our starting point is faith not of our own, and his starting point is mental assent. That's how it comes across to me at times (though that may be only part of the problem). Mentioning it in case it is helpful.
I'm sure though that there are believers in the protestant evangelical world who have not met the Lord and received His Spirit. I call them "cultural Christians". They are like most Catholics who believe mentally because that is how they were raised, but do not know the Lord personally. But I think most of us here in these discussions with Epi do know the Lord and have been born of the Spirit.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The Gospel is the Crucified, Resurrected, and Glorified Jesus Christ, who through Him we have salvation from our sins, and chosen to serve the Living God.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
men can and often do lie .
GOD cannot lie .
HIS WORD is TRUTH , HIS WORDS are TRUTH .
LET GOD be TRUE but every man a liar , so as that ye can Be justified .
And GOD said HOW we are . BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST .
TRUTH is found in HE WHO IS TRUTH . GOD , CHRIST , And HIS WORDS in that bible ARE TRUTH .
Let no man take thy crown . Get in that bible and learn that JESUS . Testing all things that ANY one
does say against that TRUTH in the BIBLE .
GOD cannot lie .
HIS WORD is TRUTH , HIS WORDS are TRUTH .
LET GOD be TRUE but every man a liar , so as that ye can Be justified .
And GOD said HOW we are . BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST .
TRUTH is found in HE WHO IS TRUTH . GOD , CHRIST , And HIS WORDS in that bible ARE TRUTH .
Let no man take thy crown . Get in that bible and learn that JESUS . Testing all things that ANY one
does say against that TRUTH in the BIBLE .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Many can and do often buy a lie .
though the lie cometh with twisted truth .
Many are now buying into a lie .
A lie which is basically teaching , We can attain our way back to GOD by our own means , by our own ways .
Now they often call this word love . They say ideals like if anyone in any religoin has love
then they DO KNOW GOD . Yet how could it even be love they even had FOR GOD , IF THEY DENY JESUS CHRIST .
You see , we can by grace easily discern this love they speak of to be OF THE WORLD , NOT OF GOD .
IF man could have attained HIS way back TO GOD , THEN how come none ever could and WHY was JESUS EVEN SENT .
Man FAILED . JESUS PREVAILED . and if folks dont GIVE HIM the GLORY , WELL THEY AINT GIVING GOD THE GLORY .
IF one LOVED GOD , THEY WOULD HAVE LOVED JESUS CHRIST , FOR HE CAME FORTH OF GOD .
THEY would not DENY HIM as CHRIST . THAT BE THE KEY RIGHT THERE . THE KEY TO KNOWING WHO IS OF GOD
and WHO IS NOT . Those who are of GOD HEAR US , john said , THOSE WHO are not of GOD do not .
AND THEY ALL PREACHED THE DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST . And also warned
about not following another jesus or another gospel . JESUS words , the words of TRUTH
can shred the lies of men REAL FAST , no matter how well put together , full of emotions and false hope , those lies did give .
TRUTH will expose the lie . THE SPIRIT exposes darkness , it dont coexist or justify darkness . Many are now buying into a lie
and seem to just LOVE this lie that cannot save . In revelation it was written
The lake of fire does await those who LOVED a lie . HIGH time we preach the TRUE GOSPEL that does save
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
many do this sister . They never knew him , then bought a lie which sounded good and believed they now do know him .
And yet how do you know they still dont know him . WHO DO THEY POINT TO , MAN OR JESUS CHRIST ALONE .
WHO do they GLORIFY , man or JESUS CHRIST , man or GOD .
When a man speaks against the DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST TO BE SAVED
THEY DO NOT GLORIFY GOD , AS THEY DO NOT GLORIFY THE SON . What they do , IS CALL GOD A LIAR
beliving NOT the TESTIMONY HE GAVE OF THE SON . See , the words of truth can easily shut down the voice of the lie .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Its also his mindset . Instead of listening to us , IN HIS MIND we are still trapped in the old wrong ways that churches did things .
HE BELEIVES in his mind that we were once LIKE HE once was . WHICH IS NOT TRUE AT ALL .
HE bought the party line . His mind is made up . HE SEES this new way as THE OLD TRUE WAY
He probably even believes HE has returned to the ORIGINAL GOSPEL and JESUS that so many do not know .
YET watch how he treats even the bible itself . HE DID NOT RETURN . He never truly CAME OUT from amongst
the very ones who do wrong and now teach a huge lie . I see this a lot sister .
They always say , YOU JUST LIKE I USED TO BE . NO , I aint like epi once was , NOR am i AS HE NOW IS EITHER .
And beleive you me i have no plans of going from one darkness into only greater darkness .
YOU SEE that is what has occured within a lot of christendom .
THEY, under guise of this so called love new gospel way stuff , exposed a few sins of the lost churches
ONLY they didnt lead them into light , THEY LED them from one darkness INTO GREATER DARKNESS .
Many have done that too . I mean think about jospeh smith , he once too could expose some sins , some darkness of the old
churches of his time , BUT LOOK AT WHERE HE LED THEM ALL TOO . INTO GREATER darkness .
WELL This DELUSION is doing the same . ONLY NOW its no longer dividing them ITS UNIFYING THEM TO BE AS ONE
but not under GOD but rather under He who always has desired to be AS GOD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
THATSWHY GOD DID SEND THE SON JESUS CHRIST , so that all WHO DO BELIEVE would not perish
but have everlasting life .
But it sure seems today that many are now listening to HE who desires to be AS GOD
and has preached a false reconcilation message by which it reconciles the world as one unto itself
BUT then satan aint GOD and does DESIRE the death of all and thus he has pumped out a dark love
by which HE WILL DO just that . OMITTING the dire need to have to believe on JESUS CHRIST
and rather saying , oh god is love , it dont matter what ye beleive as long as ye love one another .
HE IS A LIAR . i repeat HE IS A LIAR . GOD TESTIED OF JESUS CHRIST , and thus any and all
who DENY HIS TESTIMONY OF THE SON , welll they calling GOD A LIAR . the devil knows that
and has preached a love to make it not seem so . But then again there is no TRUTH IN HIM , so what do ya expect from him . A LIE .
This is yet another of many threads where you promote your own non-scriptural version of gospel Epi.
And now as a deceptive promotional prop and tool, you are using R. C. Spoul, who does not speak to your gospel at all. Using his words in his video to somehow say he does supports your gospel with it 'layers' or 'levels' of walk, and that only the elite get to be fully present in the Kingdom today.
I guess most people do not actually know the details of your ideas concerning grace, faith, 'layers' 'levels' of walk, righteousness and sanctification etc., that you are still promoting...as well as your book I see...
The gospel begins and ends with the power of God, indeed. Most, or virtually all interested in this subject speak to the obvious power of the Spirit of God of transforming a person into a new creature of God via his Son. What about the power or the Spirit of God's actions before Christ, for the gospel of our salvation? Why is there no talk about the power of God who planned and created the seed of our salvation. Is this not the crucial part and the catalyst for our salvation, and thus the most important part of the gospel that no one seems to speak to...?
And I do know why scholars tend to avoid or overlook this subject. It is because w/they are then forced to know and believe as truth, that the seed of our salvation within this good message, as its core, is the CREATED Christ. The gardener (Father God) planned and created his perfect human seed for our salvation and that it would someday reproduce from it, new seeds, or fruits. To in the age of this grace of God, to form new creatures from ashes of the 1st Adam, of this seed, to new images of this seed we call Yashua or Jesus, the second and final Adam. The new eternal life seed of the power of God.
The gospel is the power of God, indeed.
I seek to correct the idea that the gospel is just the same old flesh even as it fails to please God. For many today the gospel is the good news for the flesh. The truth is being short-circuited to serve the outer man ego...now become religious. So then the whole idea of holiness is completely foreign to modern ears. People are now so used to be catered to in the flesh that any form of sound doctrine is regarded as strange.
Being translated into the kingdom involves a higher walk that is by grace through faith.
Very few will seek until that way is found. Jesus said that few will find it. And today that is many times multiplied as we are in the days where sound doctrine is no longer endured.What is the power of God for? It is to walk in the same power that Jesus did...as we can now overcome as He did. The higher walk....the deeper walk...walking in the Spirit.....all just religious concepts to most people now. But the power of God, grace, is into a heavenly walk above sin. That is unto the glory of God. You can call it elite, or foreboding, or impossible. Nothing changes in eternal reality. The fact is that unbelief stops so many from entering into that way that is in Christ.
Amen. The gospel is good news for the inner man, the part of us that is created in God's image...but it is bad news for the flesh. This is intolerable to all who have a dogmatic belief. Jesus condemned sin in the flesh in order to elevate us in the inner man into a walk in His resurrection life. As such the cost is being crucified with Him...in order to be raised to new life and power with Him and in Him.
I marvel that this isn't understood at all by almost everyone today. It's the sign of the times.
peace
The difficulty in receiving the gospel nowadays and my commentary on this ....lies in the fact that religious institutions have attempted to reverse engineer the biblical narrative to arrive at a place that they already are. There is no race of faith for these. No, it's all a done deal...it is finished. Just name it and claim it. You can claim to be justified for agreeing with a set of dogmatic beliefs. Is that why Jesus had to die?
The truth is so much more wonderful and glorious. But it must be received as a child, not a human reasoning that by long practice has abandoned the way of faith. Who now believes that they can do all things through Christ...or that with God nothing is impossible? All who are of the truth hear His voice.
The truth is so much more wonderful and glorious. But it must be received as a child, not a human reasoning that by long practice has abandoned the way of faith. Who now believes that they can do all things through Christ...or that with God nothing is impossible? All who are of the truth hear His voice.
This seems to be the crux of the argument. Did Christ finish your salvation for you, or do you have to finish it yourself?
Perhaps your false dichotomy distracts people from what you are saying. Of course the option which you don't show here is what most of the respondants believe, it seems to me. That being, no, you are not earning your salvation as you go, and no, you aren't making some empty claim for something you have no right to, but in fact, we've received a full salvation from God, finished and complete, in regeneration by being immersed into Jesus, as we believe and receive.
You must know me well enough by now to know that I'm perfectly happy to discuss this with you, but only in an appropriate manner. So I'll just leave that to you, and I'll know soon enough by how you reply, should you choose to do so.
Much love!
His part is finished...and now available to all who believe INTO Christ. Our part is to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That sounds strange to you?
The dichotomy you claim is false is the flesh on the one hand, and the Spirit that overcomes the flesh, on the other hand. These war against each other. The one who is justified is the one that overcomes the flesh by the power of the Spirit. The flesh cannot justify itself...even by naming, claiming, and accepting what Jesus accomplished for all mankind. Of course this is inevitable, hence the warning of Jesus that many will say Lord, Lord.
An appropriate way to discuss is with a desire for truth.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The bible says those born again are new creatures.
They are not the same old flesh. they have been changed.
It would be great if you and people like you trusted God more.
Are you familiar with the wording in that passage, the use of ergon, complared to katergadzomai? That we work out what He works into us (keeping in mind the difference in those words), this to you indicates an incomplete salvation which we must make complete? That we aren't really saved until we've finished our life, and "won the race of faith"?
When we believe, and receive Jesus, we are immersed into Him, but that's not something we do for ourselves. God does that. Are we agreed on that? You aren't talking about something like "believing our way into Christ", if you know what I'm saying?
To answer your question, no, that we work out (do the performing of) what He works into us (doing a work), does not in the least sound strange to me. But the idea that our contribution an any wise resembles Jesus' contribution, that is very strange to me. Jesus is the Author AND finisher of our faith. I do not believe in a cooperative effort and process over the course of my life that garners salvation to me, where without my ongoing contribution it won't happen.
I believe that Jesus Christ completed the work of salvation in His death and resurrection, and that having believed, and received, God has immersed me into Jesus, and I have been co-crucified with Him, co-raised with Him, to live a new life, being in Him. I believe that being in Him results in regeneration, resurrection of a living spirit, united forever to God by His Spirit.
Either we are baptized into Christ, and are regenerated, united to God, "saved", or we are not.
I'll be happy to supply the Scriptures for all of these statements should you wish.
No, again, the false dichotomy I'm seeing is when you are presenting your view, that we must successfully complete our race of faith in order to complete our salvation, and if we aren't doing that, then we are just making a false claim of something we have no right to.
You had written:
The false dichotomy here is in offering either an unfinished salvation which you must finish, or a finished salvation which is nothing more than a name it claim it scheme. But a third alternative is a finished salvation that is real. And this the Bible teaches.
And it's right that it should be that way, as all who glory, let them glory in the Lord.
Romans 4:1-8 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Your statement that I've underlined is at odds with Romans 4. God justifies the ungodly, counting their faith, not their works, or their efforts, but their faith for righteousness.
I fully agree with you, empty professions, naming and claiming, blab and grab (I always liked that one), don't matter. However, believing on Him Who justifies the ungodly, that matters. Being forgiven, being regenerated, these are what matter.
And Paul tells us very plainly these do not come because we've done things to earn them, or make them happen, God has to do these for us. And He does, when we believe, and receive. He makes it simple. Not easy, simple. All who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.
Without a love for the truth, what's the point? We've both seen plenty of posts that should never have been written, I'm certain!
Much love!
I'm certain this is true for some. "Get your ticket punched to go to heaven", one and done.
But for so many it's not true.
Rebirth in Christ is our means to be joined to God to both enjoy eternity with Him, and be freed from our flesh, and from the power of sin, now.
To me this is another false dichotomy, that either we are working to become holy so that we can be saved, or if not that, then we've short circuited the process to serve our fleshy ego. Again a third alternative is that having been joined to Christ, we now live our lives to honor that union by living according to His Spirit, and not according to the old man of flesh. We do this because that is the nature of the new life within us.
Much love!
I think you might be right brother. That would explain those off-the-wall false assumptions and accusations about us....from wrongly assuming we are the same as he once was. Makes sense.
Those who believe Jesus came to bring unity and world peace had better read what He said about coming not to bring peace but a sword. And that sword DIVIDES sheep from goats and SEPARATES believers from the world. There is unity of the HOLY Spirit and there is a false unity under the spirit of the WORLD which masquerades as being true, but which as you said can be DISCERNED. But we who believe have not received the spirit of the world, rather we received the Holy Spirit which SEPARATES us from the spirit of the world by His double edged sword, which again DIVIDES soul from spirit. CHOP! My, that almost sounds, what, DIVISIVE?? Dirty word in today's politically correct, aka spirit of the world, mindset. LOL!
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