What is the meaning of Grace, according to the Bible?

[GRACE ambassador]

keep the commandments

I take it you did NOT read the link and answer the question?

I have decided to follow Jesus? "Which Commandments"???

 

[sondring7]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

++++At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life.

If you believe works/performance are a requirement to GET ETERNAL LIFE, please list the verses that teach what those works are

 

[Episkopos]

++++At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life.

If you believe works/performance are a requirement to GET ETERNAL LIFE, please list the verses that teach what those works are

Jesus says to INHERIT eternal life you need to obey the commandments....the righteousness ones. But you follow Paul not Jesus, right?

 

[David1701]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life.

Born again Christians don't do good works to obtain eternal life; rather, we do good works as an outworking of the eternal life that God has given us; in fact, it is God who works in us, to will and do of his good pleasure.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

The rich young man was asking about works-based salvation, so Jesus answered him according to the terms of his question. Keep the law and you will live (of course, no-one can keep the law; in fact, it was given partly to show people their guilt and inability to keep it). The man didn't realise that he'd broken the law (as everyone has), so he claimed to have kept it, from his youth up. Jesus, therefore, homed right in on his area of greatest sin (riches) and the man went away sad.

It's very good to use the law in this way (to get the unsaved sinner to realise that he is guilty and helpless, so that he needs the Saviour) and evangelists often use the same technique; however, it is completely inappropriate to try to apply the law to born again Christians, because we are not under law but under grace; in fact, it is because we are not under law but under grace that sin does not have dominion over us.

 

[sondring7]

Jesus says to INHERIT eternal life you need to obey the commandments....the righteousness ones. But you follow Paul not Jesus, right?

Yes, I follow Paul because Jesus selected him to be my Apostle which ALL the other apostles agreed to
Try understanding :-
Acts 9:15
Rom 11:13
Rom 15:16
Gal 2:7-9
Eph 3:8
1 Tim 2:7
Gal 1:11-12
Gal 2:2
:)

 

[Randy Kluth]

In the days of Jesus, the religious leaders were constantly questioning Jesus in order to test Him and on this occasion a lawyer asked Jesus what is the great commandment?

Matthew (22:35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, (36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus reply was the 1st great commandment was to love God and the 2nd was to love ones neighbor. These were given as a commandment for man to love.
.........

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus stated that these 2 commandments where the 2 great commandments however the following verses will show that these commandments were not new and that the Jews and Jesus was speaking to were aware of them. These were the same ones issued to Israel by Moses.
......

Jesus further defines the love He requires when He states in the following verse that those who have His commandments and keep them are those that love Him. One does not have to guess at Jesus definition of love He made it clear.

John (14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I do not, of course, disagree that if we are to love God we must keep His commandments. But I've raised the question of what God's commandments are in the NT era. When Jesus spoke these things he was speaking to Israel while they were still under the Law. But Israel broke the covenant of the Law, as Moses predicted, and Jesus established a new covenant through his death.

So what commandments do we follow now that we are under a new covenant, and not the covenant of Law? As I said, God's commandments are whatever He tells you to do, as well as our need to maintain the image of God.

Again, since we've all been infected with Sin, ie in our flesh, we can do nothing perfectly. Even when we're keeping God's commandments we do so imperfectly.

And so, we do keep God's NT commandments, but we do so by Grace. We must be forgiven and cleansed regularly. The point, however, is: this is not the Law of Moses.

 

[bro.tan]

I do not, of course, disagree that if we are to love God we must keep His commandments. But I've raised the question of what God's commandments are in the NT era. When Jesus spoke these things he was speaking to Israel while they were still under the Law. But Israel broke the covenant of the Law, as Moses predicted, and Jesus established a new covenant through his death.

So what commandments do we follow now that we are under a new covenant, and not the covenant of Law? As I said, God's commandments are whatever He tells you to do, as well as our need to maintain the image of God.

Again, since we've all been infected with Sin, ie in our flesh, we can do nothing perfectly. Even when we're keeping God's commandments we do so imperfectly.

And so, we do keep God's NT commandments, but we do so by Grace. We must be forgiven and cleansed regularly. The point, however, is: this is not the Law of Moses.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

 

[marks]

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

Keep it in context . . . Scripture says differently then what you present here.

Romans 3:26-31 KJV
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The fact that we can only be justified through faith means that the Law does in fact condemn us, kill us, without mercy, without relief.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

Born again Christians don't do good works to obtain eternal life; rather, we do good works as an outworking of the eternal life that God has given us; in fact, it is God who works in us, to will and do of his good pleasure.

Well, born again is a change in the body, not the mind. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Do you think God work in a person who transgress the law?

The rich young man was asking about works-based salvation, so Jesus answered him according to the terms of his question. Keep the law and you will live (of course, no-one can keep the law; in fact, it was given partly to show people their guilt and inability to keep it). The man didn't realise that he'd broken the law (as everyone has), so he claimed to have kept it, from his youth up. Jesus, therefore, homed right in on his area of greatest sin (riches) and the man went away sad.

It's very good to use the law in this way (to get the unsaved sinner to realise that he is guilty and helpless, so that he needs the Saviour) and evangelists often use the same technique; however, it is completely inappropriate to try to apply the law to born again Christians, because we are not under law but under grace; in fact, it is because we are not under law but under grace that sin does not have dominion over us.

Naw...I don't think you understand that young man position of what he was asking. But Again....Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

 

[bro.tan]

++++At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life.

If you believe works/performance are a requirement to GET ETERNAL LIFE, please list the verses that teach what those works are

It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Taking the time to read through the whole Bible over and over, you will learn something new every time. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8). Read the word of God for yourself daily and pray for understanding and wisdom with a pure heart and it will be so.

Let’s take a look at what Paul says in Colossians 3: 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Believe it or not this is a lot work for some of us, a lot of changes, but this is the word of God. We work on ourselves daily, killing the old man, the old person, making that change. But let’s take a look at some other things we must change as men and women, and even children, when it comes to the word of God, in Colossians 3: 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. 20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. 21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged. 22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: 23 and whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and you deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”. There's no other day to go to church on, but what's written in the Bible. So people have been taught to do the things thats not written in the Bible and to use the Bible to justify it.

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Hebrews11th Chapter) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

4th post

So this what will happen if one refuse to change, Paul said in "1 Corinthians 6:9" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness, being an abomination.

Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

 

[bro.tan]

I take it you did NOT read the link and answer the question?

Ok....I see

 

[David1701]

Well, born again is a change in the body, not the mind. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Being born again is being given a new heart/spirit. Our bodies are not changed until the resurrection, when the Lord returns.

Ez. 36:26,27 (MKJV)
26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them.

The above is the New Covenant, promised in the Old. We are given a new, soft human spirit within us and the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

And here is Jesus explaining the same thing to Nicodemus - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (not flesh).

Sin is lawlessness ("transgression of the law" is a slight mistranslation, because lawlessness includes more than just law-breaking; essentially, lawlessness is doing your own thing, rather than pleasing God). Christians are not under law, but under grace; so, for us, sin is not doing the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is not a set of rules and regulations, but a living relationship with God of trust and love.

Do you think God work in a person who transgress the law?

If he didn't, then no-one would ever be saved! Salvation is a work of God's grace, in the heart of a sinner.

Eph. 2:8,9
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Naw...I don't think you understand that young man position of what he was asking. But Again....Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law.

Grace means "unmerited favour"; but, your claim would mean that we must merit the maintenance of our unmerited favour, by keeping the law. Do you see the flaw in your logic? Besides which, Christians are not under law, but under grace, as the Bible states.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor.

I was fine with everything you said up until this point. Suddenly you go from the Royal Law to the 10 Commandments? The 10 Commandments were a part of the Law of Moses, which is now an outdated covenant.

I'm not saying that the principle of Divine love contained in the 10 Commandments is not relevant--they are. They just don't represent the New Covenant, which is an entirely different covenant from the old covenant of Law.

Why is this important? It is important to distance ourselves from the Law of Moses because if we find the 10 Commandments are binding, not only is Sabbath Law binding, but so are all of the other requirements--Temple Law, the Law of Sacrifice, and the Law of Priesthood.

None of these are needed when it has been replaced by the New Covenant in Christ. We can learn from the morals contained in an old covenant without actually living under that covenant.

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

You are misreading Paul's statement here in Rom 3. We know that because of the NT Theology Paul explicitly states elsewhere in his letters.

Paul absolutely rejected any sense that we are under the Law of Moses, with its 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments are fulfilled, together with the whole Law, under the New Covenant of Christ. We do all of the things contained in the 10 Commandments by serving
Christ, and not by attending to the specific requirements of the Old Covenant.

We do not keep the Sabbath Law as if we are still under the Old Covenant. The Sabbath Law was fulfilled by Christ, who knew we could not be justified by obeying Sabbath Law, and fulfilled all righteousness simply by being the Son of God and living by every word of his Father in heaven.

And we have partaken of both Christ's righteousness and grace, obeying his Word and yet knowing we could not maintain perfect righteousness, with or without the Law of Moses. It is Christ who proved perfect obedience. We display our obedience by a system of Grace, which goes well beyond the Law. The Law served to show that we could *not* be justified under that system, including the Sabbath Law.

 

[bro.tan]

I was fine with everything you said up until this point. Suddenly you go from the Royal Law to the 10 Commandments? The 10 Commandments were a part of the Law of Moses, which is now an outdated covenant.

I'm not saying that the principle of Divine love contained in the 10 Commandments is not relevant--they are. They just don't represent the New Covenant, which is an entirely different covenant from the old covenant of Law.

Why is this important? It is important to distance ourselves from the Law of Moses because if we find the 10 Commandments are binding, not only is Sabbath Law binding, but so are all of the other requirements--Temple Law, the Law of Sacrifice, and the Law of Priesthood.

None of these are needed when it has been replaced by the New Covenant in Christ. We can learn from the morals contained in an old covenant without actually living under that covenant.

You are misreading Paul's statement here in Rom 3. We know that because of the NT Theology Paul explicitly states elsewhere in his letters.

Paul absolutely rejected any sense that we are under the Law of Moses, with its 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments are fulfilled, together with the whole Law, under the New Covenant of Christ. We do all of the things contained in the 10 Commandments by serving
Christ, and not by attending to the specific requirements of the Old Covenant.

We do not keep the Sabbath Law as if we are still under the Old Covenant. The Sabbath Law was fulfilled by Christ, who knew we could not be justified by obeying Sabbath Law, and fulfilled all righteousness simply by being the Son of God and living by every word of his Father in heaven.

And we have partaken of both Christ's righteousness and grace, obeying his Word and yet knowing we could not maintain perfect righteousness, with or without the Law of Moses. It is Christ who proved perfect obedience. We display our obedience by a system of Grace, which goes well beyond the Law. The Law served to show that we could *not* be justified under that system, including the Sabbath Law.

In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them! All God ever wanted was what was best for us! He designed us to be His children. We are happiest when we love and obey Him. He is a God who is totally righteous and holy. God cannot sin. And He wants us to follow in His footsteps. The person that says, (1John:2:6) “that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”

There are those who believe that because Christ overcame sin and kept the law that now we don't have to keep God's laws. But what do the Scriptures tell us? Here's what Jesus said:

Jesus says in (Mat.5:17-19) (v.17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (v.18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (v.19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to fulfill, to fill to the full (Gk. plereo). He fulfilled many prophecies - but not all. There are many in the Book of Revelation still to be fulfilled. There is still some in the Old Testament that hasn’t been fulfilled. Jesus at His first coming came to fulfilled that which was written for Him to fulfill at His first coming. He has NOT fulfilled everything that was written for Him to do. And He kept all of the Law that he could - but that was not all! He was not a Temple priest. He was not a woman. He could not keep the laws intended only for priests and women. No matter how you think about Jesus, there is still much to be fulfilled! So not even the smallest part has yet passed from God's Law!

Jesus made it quite clear that anyone who would break even the least commandment and teach people to do so would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

The fact is, God did not find fault with His laws but rather with the people who did not obey them. (Heb.8:7-8) (v.7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.(v.8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The writer of Hebrews then proceeds to quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, quoted above. Under the New Covenant we now have a living High Priest, Jesus Christ, who can make intercession for us. One who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. He is an intercessor who understands our weaknesses because He lived as a human being.

 

[bro.tan]

Being born again is being given a new heart/spirit. Our bodies are not changed until the resurrection, when the Lord returns.

Ez. 36:26,27 (MKJV)
26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them.

The above is the New Covenant, promised in the Old. We are given a new, soft human spirit within us and the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

And here is Jesus explaining the same thing to Nicodemus - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (not flesh).

Sin is lawlessness ("transgression of the law" is a slight mistranslation, because lawlessness includes more than just law-breaking; essentially, lawlessness is doing your own thing, rather than pleasing God). Christians are not under law, but under grace; so, for us, sin is not doing the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is not a set of rules and regulations, but a living relationship with God of trust and love.


If he didn't, then no-one would ever be saved! Salvation is a work of God's grace, in the heart of a sinner.

Eph. 2:8,9
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


Grace means "unmerited favour"; but, your claim would mean that we must merit the maintenance of our unmerited favour, by keeping the law. Do you see the flaw in your logic? Besides which, Christians are not under law, but under grace, as the Bible states.

I agree Paul says in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. But let's see the different from what Paul is saying and what Jesus is saying. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice: He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit? Angels where born spirit being, man and beast are born flesh and blood. There will be no flesh in the Father Kingdom, only spirit beings, so everyone must be born again. Only Jesus in his thousand year reign will have both, which includes the first resurrection.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice: what Jesus does in these next few verses.

Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family, Jesus was Born Again.

 

[David1701]

I agree Paul says in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. But let's see the different from what Paul is saying and what Jesus is saying. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice: He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit? Angels where born spirit being, man and beast are born flesh and blood. There will be no flesh in the Father Kingdom, only spirit beings, so everyone must be born again. Only Jesus in his thousand year reign will have both, which includes the first resurrection.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice: what Jesus does in these next few verses.

Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family, Jesus was Born Again.

Being born of water is an expression referring to physical birth (when the mother's waters break). I can go through this passage in depth, if you need it.

Jesus had absolutely no need to be born again, since he was never a sinner. The reason why sinners need to be born again, is that, prior to this, our spirit is dead towards God, in trespasses and sins, is hostile towards God and cannot please him, and hates the light. Once we are born again, by the Holy Spirit, this changes and we willingly believe the gospel.

 

[Randy Kluth]

In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness.

Absolutely not. That is your defintion, when words have to mean what they mean in context--not what *you* say they mean in this particular context. There is no way Christ magnified the Law by "enlarging it and applying it to us as a requirement." He is the one who displayed perfect righteousness--not under the Law but in perfect obedience to his Father in heaven.

We live by Christ's righteousness, even though we know we don't do it perfectly. If we were under the Law it would magnify the fact we are sinners and ineligible for Eternal Life based on our own record of righteousness. We benefit from *Christ's record of righteousness,* which is perfect. We only have to participate in it and sign onto it in covenant form. We in a sense "marry" into it.

But the principle of morality contained in the Law of Moses is very instructive, even though it is no longer a covenant system for Israel or for others to live by. We can utilize some of those principles of Moral Law to apply within the Christian Covenant.

If Jesus "magnified" the Law at all, it would've been for Israel while they were still under the Law, or it would've been to show how we are hopeless based on our own record of righteousness under that system. Jesus magnified his own record of righteousness and magnified his grace, which keeps us having access to his righteousness even though we remain imperfect.

Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them!

I've heard this argument many times, that Jesus' New Covenant was the Old Law of Moses applied in deeper way with respect to the heart. No, that is not the definition of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was symbolically displayed in the Eucharist, or the Lord's Supper, which indicated that Covenant begins with the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross.

The Law of Moses *always* applied in a deeper, heart-felt way. This was not new. Jesus was teaching it only because Israel had been losing true religion to a strictly external one.

All God ever wanted was what was best for us! He designed us to be His children. We are happiest when we love and obey Him. He is a God who is totally righteous and holy. God cannot sin. And He wants us to follow in His footsteps. The person that says, (1John:2:6) “that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”

We follow Jesus' righteousness, which is holy, pure, and clean. We have no argument with that.

There are those who believe that because Christ overcame sin and kept the law that now we don't have to keep God's laws. But what do the Scriptures tell us? Here's what Jesus said:

Jesus says in (Mat.5:17-19) (v.17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (v.18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (v.19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was saying that the testimony of the Law, requiring the righteousness of the Law, remains binding until the end of the world. What this means, practically, is that Man remains bound, apart from Christ, to obey God's Law even though it condemns him simultaneously.

Jesus was saying that he would fulfill the Law, meaning that righteousness would be imposed by him apart from the Law and that until such time as he did that Israel would be obligated to keep the whole Law. If Jesus felt that the righteousness of the Law would be required forever there would've been no need for him to say *he had to fulfill the Law!*

 

[bro.tan]

Absolutely not. That is your defintion, when words have to mean what they mean in context--not what *you* say they mean in this particular context. There is no way Christ magnified the Law by "enlarging it and applying it to us as a requirement." He is the one who displayed perfect righteousness--not under the Law but in perfect obedience to his Father in heaven.

We live by Christ's righteousness, even though we know we don't do it perfectly. If we were under the Law it would magnify the fact we are sinners and ineligible for Eternal Life based on our own record of righteousness. We benefit from *Christ's record of righteousness,* which is perfect. We only have to participate in it and sign onto it in covenant form. We in a sense "marry" into it.

But the principle of morality contained in the Law of Moses is very instructive, even though it is no longer a covenant system for Israel or for others to live by. We can utilize some of those principles of Moral Law to apply within the Christian Covenant.

If Jesus "magnified" the Law at all, it would've been for Israel while they were still under the Law, or it would've been to show how we are hopeless based on our own record of righteousness under that system. Jesus magnified his own record of righteousness and magnified his grace, which keeps us having access to his righteousness even though we remain imperfect.

I've heard this argument many times, that Jesus' New Covenant was the Old Law of Moses applied in deeper way with respect to the heart. No, that is not the definition of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was symbolically displayed in the Eucharist, or the Lord's Supper, which indicated that Covenant begins with the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross.

The Law of Moses *always* applied in a deeper, heart-felt way. This was not new. Jesus was teaching it only because Israel had been losing true religion to a strictly external one.

We follow Jesus' righteousness, which is holy, pure, and clean. We have no argument with that.

Jesus was saying that the testimony of the Law, requiring the righteousness of the Law, remains binding until the end of the world. What this means, practically, is that Man remains bound, apart from Christ, to obey God's Law even though it condemns him simultaneously.

Jesus was saying that he would fulfill the Law, meaning that righteousness would be imposed by him apart from the Law and that until such time as he did that Israel would be obligated to keep the whole Law. If Jesus felt that the righteousness of the Law would be required forever there would've been no need for him to say *he had to fulfill the Law!*

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

So if you say that you know God, but you don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for you.

(1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[bro.tan]

Being born of water is an expression referring to physical birth (when the mother's waters break). I can go through this passage in depth, if you need it.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You can't go around picking verses out the Bible that lines up with your doctrine. Rightly dividing the truth starts from Genesis to Revelation. Rightly dividing the truth starts from Genesis to Revelation. Because people don’t really read the Bible on their own and study, so they post without scriptures and verses to prove their belief.

But let's go and an example of this water in Revelation 7th chapter and keep in mind this after the great tribulation. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Let's take another look at this water, because this was prophesy by Isaiah 49: 10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them. 11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. 12 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. 13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

One more last example....John 4: 3Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus had absolutely no need to be born again, since he was never a sinner. The reason why sinners need to be born again, is that, prior to this, our spirit is dead towards God, in trespasses and sins, is hostile towards God and cannot please him, and hates the light. Once we are born again, by the Holy Spirit, this changes and we willingly believe the gospel.

So when Jesus died and born again he had a different Body and can do other things like pop up from nowhere, etc. Look at what 1 Peter 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

Notice how Peter shifts the conversation and compares us to grass and flower, because it dies and we died. The word of God never dies, but Peter had to make this comparison with flesh and grass, so people can understand the difference of what he's' talking about. When we born again, we can't die anymore, we not of the flesh anymore. Paul confirm what Peter says the same thing in 1 Corthinan 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Right now our minds are in the spirit of God, if we walk in his word and keep his Commandment, Statues and Judgements. But we live in the flesh. We are of the corruptible seed, flesh! Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

In I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before. One last place in 1 Corinthian 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.