What is the promised land to Abraham?

[Jay Ross]

The Greek example you give also means:
kainos: new, fresh
Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Definition: new, fresh
Usage: fresh, new, unused,

I guess you your free to used anyone of these to justify your opinion. I chose to use the translators rendering of the word. I guess when you read in Isaiah 65 when we read that a new Heaven and earth created, even though it was translated from the Hebrew, meant the same thing. So with your reasoning the word kainos whether in Hebrew or Greek meant the same thing. I chose the new as meaning new and not refurbished.

Yes we are both free to chose how we want to understand the source texts in question. On checking, the reference that you provided. came from the Bible Hub web site. However, you chose to only give the meaning provided at the very beginning for the Greek Root word G:2537. Here is more of that article from the same page that can be found at Strong's Greek: 2537. καινός (kainos) -- new, fresh (biblehub.com)

Below is what I have copied to include in this post.

Strong's Concordance

kainos: new, fresh

Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Definition: new, fresh
Usage: fresh, new, unused, novel.

HELPS Word-studies

2537 kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
new, fresh
NASB Translation
fresh (3), new (37), new things (1), things new (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2537: καινός

καινός, καινή, καινόν (from Aeschylus and Herodotus down); the Sept. for חָדָשׁ; new, i. e.

a. as respects form; recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn (opposed to παλαιός old, antiquated): as ἀσκός, Matthew 9:11; Mark 2:22 (T omits; Tr WH brackets the clause); Luke 5:38 ἱμάτιον, Luke 5:36; πλήρωμα, Mark 2:21; μνημεῖον, Matthew 27:60; with ἐν ᾧ οὐδέπω οὐδείς ἐτέθη added, John 19:41; καινά καί παλαιά, Matthew 13:52; new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds: διαθήκη, Matthew 26:28 (T WH omit καινά); Mark 14:24 R L; Luke 22:20 (WH reject the passage); 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8[HU1] :8, 13; Hebrews 9:15 (Jeremiah 38:31 ()); καινοί οὐρανοί, καινή γῆ, 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1 (Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 66:22); Ἱερουσαλήμ (see Ἱεροσόλυμα, at the end), Revelation 3:12; Revelation 21:2; ἄνθρωπος (see the word, 1 f.), Ephesians 2:15; Ephesians 4:24 (καρδία, πνεῦμα, Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26); καινά πάντα ποιῶ, I bring all things into a new and better condition, Revelation 21:5; γέννημα τῆς ἀμπέλου, Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25.

b. as respects substance; of a new kind; unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of (ἑτέρα καί καινά δαιμόνια, Xenophon, mem. 1, 1, 1): διδαχή, Mark 1:27; Acts 17:19; ἐντολή, given now for the first time, John 13:34; 1 John 2:7; 2 John 1:5; ὄνομα, with the added explanation ὁ οὐδείς οἶδεν (ἔγνω Rec.), Revelation 2:17 (Isaiah 62:2; Isaiah 65:15); ᾠδή, Revelation 5:9; Revelation 14:3 (Psalm 143:9 (); ὕμνος, Isaiah 42:10; ᾆσμα, Psalm 32:3 (); (), etc.); λέγειν τί καί (ἤ L T Tr WH) ἀκούειν καινότερον, Acts 17:21 (newer namely, than that which is already; (cf. Winer's Grammar, 244 (228f))); κτίσις, Galatians 6:15; καινά τά πάντα, all things are new, previously non-existent, begin to be far different from what they were before, 2 Corinthians 5:17 (L T Tr WH omit τά πάντα); μηκέτι οὔσης τῆς ἀνομίας, καινων δέ γεγονότων πάντων ὑπό κυρίου, the Epistle of Barnabas 15, 7 [ET]. γλῶσσαι (see γλῶσσα, 2): Mark 16:17 (Tr text WH text omit; Tr marginal reading brackets καινων) [SYNONYMS: καινός, νέος: νέος denotes the new primarily in reference to time, the young, recent; καινός denotes the new primarily in reference to quality, the fresh, unworn; 'νέος ad tempus refertur, καινός ad rem;' see Trench, § lx.; Tittmann i., p. 59f; Green, 'Critical Note' on Matthew 9:17 (where the words occur together). The same distinction, in the main, holds in classic usage; cf. Schmidt ii., chapter 47.]


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

new.

Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while neos is properly so with respect to age -- new.

see GREEK neos


The above portion of the article provided from the link provided, suggests that the meaning for the Greek words with the embedded Greek Root word, kainos, is contextually dependant. In your opinion it should be "new," whereas I am suggesting that the context of the passage and in reference to the Greek words found in Rev 21:1, they cannot have, IMHO, the same meaning as you are suggesting and that meaning for both Greek words in this verse must paint a different picture within the verse itself. It is my view that the English word "new" does not cut it and suggests a very different context to the one originally intended.

It seems that we will have to agree to disagree in our respective opinions and in time we will both learn the truth, but not necessarily within our respective lifetimes.

Thank you for addressing the subject matter and not the person in your latest reply to what I have posted.

Shalom

 

[Daniel Veler]

Yes we are both free to chose how we want to understand the source texts in question. On checking, the reference that you provided. came from the Bible Hub web site. However, you chose to only give the meaning provided at the very beginning for the Greek Root word G:2537. Here is more of that article from the same page that can be found at Strong's Greek: 2537. καινός (kainos) -- new, fresh (biblehub.com)

Below is what I have copied to include in this post.

Strong's Concordance

kainos: new, fresh

Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Definition: new, fresh
Usage: fresh, new, unused, novel.

HELPS Word-studies

2537 kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
new, fresh
NASB Translation
fresh (3), new (37), new things (1), things new (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2537: καινός

καινός, καινή, καινόν (from Aeschylus and Herodotus down); the Sept. for חָדָשׁ; new, i. e.

a. as respects form; recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn (opposed to παλαιός old, antiquated): as ἀσκός, Matthew 9:11; Mark 2:22 (T omits; Tr WH brackets the clause); Luke 5:38 ἱμάτιον, Luke 5:36; πλήρωμα, Mark 2:21; μνημεῖον, Matthew 27:60; with ἐν ᾧ οὐδέπω οὐδείς ἐτέθη added, John 19:41; καινά καί παλαιά, Matthew 13:52; new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds: διαθήκη, Matthew 26:28 (T WH omit καινά); Mark 14:24 R L; Luke 22:20 (WH reject the passage); 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8[HU1] :8, 13; Hebrews 9:15 (Jeremiah 38:31 ()); καινοί οὐρανοί, καινή γῆ, 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1 (Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 66:22); Ἱερουσαλήμ (see Ἱεροσόλυμα, at the end), Revelation 3:12; Revelation 21:2; ἄνθρωπος (see the word, 1 f.), Ephesians 2:15; Ephesians 4:24 (καρδία, πνεῦμα, Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26); καινά πάντα ποιῶ, I bring all things into a new and better condition, Revelation 21:5; γέννημα τῆς ἀμπέλου, Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25.

b. as respects substance; of a new kind; unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of (ἑτέρα καί καινά δαιμόνια, Xenophon, mem. 1, 1, 1): διδαχή, Mark 1:27; Acts 17:19; ἐντολή, given now for the first time, John 13:34; 1 John 2:7; 2 John 1:5; ὄνομα, with the added explanation ὁ οὐδείς οἶδεν (ἔγνω Rec.), Revelation 2:17 (Isaiah 62:2; Isaiah 65:15); ᾠδή, Revelation 5:9; Revelation 14:3 (Psalm 143:9 (); ὕμνος, Isaiah 42:10; ᾆσμα, Psalm 32:3 (); (), etc.); λέγειν τί καί (ἤ L T Tr WH) ἀκούειν καινότερον, Acts 17:21 (newer namely, than that which is already; (cf. Winer's Grammar, 244 (228f))); κτίσις, Galatians 6:15; καινά τά πάντα, all things are new, previously non-existent, begin to be far different from what they were before, 2 Corinthians 5:17 (L T Tr WH omit τά πάντα); μηκέτι οὔσης τῆς ἀνομίας, καινων δέ γεγονότων πάντων ὑπό κυρίου, the Epistle of Barnabas 15, 7 [ET]. γλῶσσαι (see γλῶσσα, 2): Mark 16:17 (Tr text WH text omit; Tr marginal reading brackets καινων) [SYNONYMS: καινός, νέος: νέος denotes the new primarily in reference to time, the young, recent; καινός denotes the new primarily in reference to quality, the fresh, unworn; 'νέος ad tempus refertur, καινός ad rem;' see Trench, § lx.; Tittmann i., p. 59f; Green, 'Critical Note' on Matthew 9:17 (where the words occur together). The same distinction, in the main, holds in classic usage; cf. Schmidt ii., chapter 47.]


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

new.

Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while neos is properly so with respect to age -- new.

see GREEK neos


The above portion of the article provided from the link provided, suggests that the meaning for the Greek words with the embedded Greek Root word, kainos, is contextually dependant. In your opinion it should be "new," whereas I am suggesting that the context of the passage and in reference to the Greek words found in Rev 21:1, they cannot have, IMHO, the same meaning as you are suggesting and that meaning for both Greek words in this verse must paint a different picture within the verse itself. It is my view that the English word "new" does not cut it and suggests a very different context to the one originally intended.

It seems that we will have to agree to disagree in our respective opinions and in time we will both learn the truth, but not necessarily within our respective lifetimes.

Thank you for addressing the subject matter and not the person in your latest reply to what I have posted.

Shalom

So be it.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Yeah...
This is how wars get started.
Hebrew is a metaphoric language to start with...and the metaphors have more than one meaning....string them together and you have confusion and fussing over the precise meanings.

Now in the original passage Abraham was told to "look" at the land. By this point Abraham had travelled the whole Fertile Crescent. In Hebrew that word "look" also means "consider". Meaning in truth that God was giving the whole world to Abraham and his "Seed"....not seeds. Again this is another point of contention. Zera vs Zerabim.

The Jews make the "look" as literally what Abraham could see at that moment. And then the "Seed" as a singular intending a plural that they say is "descendants" .

Jesus says otherwise....
"All authority in Heaven and Earth has been given unto me"
That pretty much confirms who the Earth belongs to...and fulfills that promise.

And that pretty much is the Crux of the reason for the wars.

Also...
In Genesis 2 Eden is described as the whole Fertile Crescent with Israel being the garden within it...and Jerusalem as being the center of the Garden with the tree of life.
So...to the Jews the land is special and holy... unique and precious. They are biologically hardwired for having an affinity with that land. Even if it's almost worthless. They have farmed sand and made it back into a garden. It's incredible to see what they have done...and the dividing line between Israel and Palestine is clearly marked with vegetation. Israel has plenty and Palestine has refuse and no vegetation. I have no idea why Palestinians won't pick up their own trash and dispose of it properly...but it's strewn about everywhere.

Paul tells us what Abraham was shown. I guess you never read that.