What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

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St. SteVen

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On another topic this discussion below was happening.

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St. SteVen said:
Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead.
They leave their physical body behind. Everything else goes with them into the afterlife.
The dead have spiritual bodies. The souls of the dead.
Can you show me where it say that in the Bible….?
That sounds like more work than I care to do on this.
And I know you won't buy it.

Might be worth a topic though.
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Let's go over this, point-by-point.

- Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead.
Not sure where the counter-argument would be for this.
Unless it was an objection to the term "afterlife". ???

- They leave their physical body behind.
Again, where would the counter-argument be for this?
Would anyone argue that the physical body went into the afterlife?
The dead, give up the ghost, as the saying goes. (that's telling)

- Everything else goes with them into the afterlife.
Like what? The spirit and soul of the individual. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
The physical body is left behind. The soul inhabits an incorruptible spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:52)
The soul contains the mind, will and emotions of the individual.
Their life's memories, for which they will be judged.

- The dead have spiritual bodies. The souls of the dead.
Pretty well covered in the point above. (Revelation 20:4)

[ cc: @Aunty Jane
 

BarneyFife

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@St. SteVen, @Aunty Jane

A BIBLICAL VIEW OF THE STATE OF THE DEAD (CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY)

This understanding, often termed conditional immortality or "soul sleep," posits that humans lack an inherently immortal soul that consciously survives bodily death. Instead, death is an unconscious state, likened to sleep, persisting until the resurrection.

HUMAN NATURE AT CREATION

Genesis 2:7 states, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Hebrew: nephesh chayyah)."
Man didn't receive a pre-existing immortal soul. The combination of the "dust" (physical body) and the "breath of life" (God's life principle) resulted in a "living soul" or "living being"—the whole person. The Hebrew term nephesh (soul) is used broadly, often referring to the person, life, or self, and does not inherently imply immortality.

Immortality was contingent upon obedience and access to the Tree of Life (Genesis 2:9). After sin, humanity was barred from it "lest he...take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" (Genesis 3:22). This implies they did not possess inherent immortality. Scripture states that God "alone has immortality" (1 Timothy 6:16). Humans receive immortality as a gift from God through Christ (Romans 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54).

THE NATURE OF DEATH

Death involves the cessation of life and consciousness.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10 is a key text: "For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing... Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun... For there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave (Sheol) where you are going." This indicates a complete lack of consciousness.
Psalm 146:4 adds, "His breath (spirit, ruach) goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." The "spirit" (ruach) is understood as the "breath of life" from God, the vital spark, not a conscious entity. Upon death, this returns to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7), while the body returns to dust (Genesis 3:19).
Other texts like Psalm 6:5, Psalm 115:17, Isaiah 38:18-19, and Job 14:10-12, 21 confirm this state of silence, inactivity, and unawareness in death.

The Bible frequently describes death as "sleep." This metaphor implies unconsciousness and a future awakening (resurrection).
Jesus said of Lazarus, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps...Lazarus is dead" (John 11:11-14).
Paul refers to deceased believers as "those who sleep in Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17), who will be awakened at Christ's return. Daniel 12:2, Acts 7:60 (Stephen "fell asleep"), and Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians 15 also use this "sleep" metaphor.

THE RESURRECTION – THE HOPE OF BELIEVERS

If the soul is already consciously in heaven or hell, the strong biblical emphasis on a future bodily resurrection (1 Corinthians 15) becomes theologically problematic or less significant.
Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 15:16-18, "For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen... Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished." His argument hinges on the idea that without resurrection, the dead in Christ have simply ceased to exist or remain unredeemed.
Job's hope was in a future, bodily encounter: "in my flesh I shall see God" (Job 19:25-27).

The timing of reward and punishment is tied to the resurrection.
John 5:28-29 points to a future "hour...in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
Revelation 20:4-6 describes the "first resurrection" of the righteous at Christ's second coming. The "rest of the dead" (the wicked) do not live again until after a symbolic thousand years.
Reward is given at the Second Coming (Matthew 16:27; 2 Timothy 4:8).

ADDRESSING COMMONLY MISUNDERSTOOD PASSAGES

The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31):
This is widely understood as a parable, not a literal depiction of the afterlife. Jesus uses elements of existing Jewish folklore (e.g., "Abraham's bosom") to teach moral lessons about wealth, compassion, the irrevocability of choices, and the authority of Scripture. If taken literally, it would contradict clearer scriptural teachings on the unconsciousness of the dead. Parables often contain non-literal elements to convey spiritual truth (e.g., talking trees in Judges 9:8-15).

The Thief on the Cross (Luke 23:43):
"Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
The original Greek manuscripts had no punctuation. The placement of the comma is interpretive. The statement can be understood as: "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise." This emphasizes the certainty of the promise made on that day, not its immediate fulfillment on that day. Jesus Himself did not go to Paradise that day; He rested in the tomb (Matthew 12:40) and told Mary Magdalene on Sunday morning, "I have not yet ascended to My Father" (John 20:17). "Paradise" here is understood as the Paradise restored, which believers enter after the resurrection.

"Absent from the body... present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8):
Paul expresses a desire: "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." The context (2 Corinthians 5:1-10) is Paul's longing for his resurrected, glorified body, contrasting the earthly "tent" with the "building from God...eternal in the heavens." The transition from being "absent from the body" to being "present with the Lord" occurs at the resurrection. For the dead, the next conscious moment after death is the resurrection; there is no consciousness of the intervening time.

Souls Under the Altar (Revelation 6:9-11):
"I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain..."
The book of Revelation is highly symbolic. Blood, representing life, was poured at the base of the altar of sacrifice (Leviticus 4:7). This imagery personifies the martyrs' sacrifice crying out for justice, similar to how Abel's blood cried out from the ground (Genesis 4:10). It's symbolic language, not a literal description of disembodied souls.

Saul and the "Witch" of Endor (1 Samuel 28):
This account describes Saul consulting a medium who seemingly conjures up Samuel. This is interpreted by many as a demonic deception, not the actual spirit of Samuel. God had refused to answer Saul (1 Samuel 28:6), and necromancy is strictly forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). The apparition gave a message consistent with what Samuel had already told Saul, which a deceiving spirit could mimic. The text states "Saul perceived that it was Samuel," indicating his subjective perception.

THEOLOGICAL IMPLICATIONS

This view upholds God's justice and character. Eternal conscious torment for sins committed in a finite lifetime is seen by many as incompatible with God's love and justice. This view posits that the wicked are ultimately annihilated (the "second death," Revelation 20:14-15; Malachi 4:1, 3), ceasing to exist.
It guards against spiritualism. If the dead are unconscious ("know nothing"), then supposed communication with departed spirits must be deceptive, often attributed to demonic impersonations.
It elevates the Second Coming and Resurrection. These become the climactic events when believers receive their reward and immortality.
It provides comfort. The bereaved can find comfort knowing their loved ones are at peace, unconscious, not suffering or observing earthly events, awaiting the joyous reunion at the resurrection.
It is consistent with God's original plan, where immortality is a gift, not an inherent human attribute, received through Christ.

THE FINAL STATE

The Righteous: After the resurrection at Christ's Second Coming, they will live eternally with God in a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21-22).
The Wicked: After the resurrection following the millennium (Revelation 20:5, 11-15), they face final judgment and experience the "second death," which is complete annihilation (Malachi 4:1; Revelation 20:9, 14-15).

HISTORICAL CONSIDERATIONS

The doctrine of the inherent immortality of the soul is seen by many scholars as an intrusion of Greek philosophy (particularly Platonism) into early Christian thought, rather than a concept derived purely from Hebrew scriptures. "Soul sleep" or conditionalism was a notable minority view throughout church history, experiencing a resurgence during and after the Reformation.

CONCLUSION

The conditional immortality understanding of the state of the dead is rooted in a holistic interpretation of Scripture. It emphasizes the created nature of humanity, the meaning of death as an unconscious sleep, and the centrality of the resurrection as the believer's hope. This view is considered internally consistent with the broader biblical narrative and upholds the justice and love of God, maintaining that eternal life is His gift through Jesus Christ, fully realized at the resurrection.
 

St. SteVen

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I don't agree with all of this from Got Questions dot com
But it does provide a different view.

Is the human soul mortal or immortal?​

Answer

The human soul or spirit is that part of a man or woman that is not physical. The soul is central to the personhood of a human being. It is the “true self”—who a person really is. The soul is the center of life, feeling, thought, and action in a human being.

Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. That is, the soul is not subject to death. Once created, the soul never ceases to exist but is everlasting. The soul is spiritual and thus has the quality of immortality. In contrast, the body is physical; the earthly body we now possess is subject to death.

The immortality of the soul is clearly seen in many places in Scripture. For example, in Psalm 23:6 David says, “I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” In Ecclesiastes 12:7 the Preacher mentions two things that happen at death: “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.” In 2 Corinthians 5:8 Paul says that to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (NKJV). All these passages indicate that the soul is immortal.

What, then, are we to do with 1 Timothy 6:16, which says that God “alone is immortal”? We see this verse as teaching that God alone is immortal in and of Himself; that is, He alone possesses immortality as an essential part of His nature. Our soul’s immortality, on the other hand—and that of the angels—is derived from God. God is immortal in His being; our souls are immortal as a result of God’s creation. Commentator Albert Barnes put it this way: “God, in his own nature, enjoys a perfect and certain exemption from death. Creatures have immortality only as they derive it from him, and of course are dependent on him for it. He has it by his very nature, and it is in his case underived, and he cannot be deprived of it. It is one of the essential attributes of his being, that he will always exist, and that death cannot reach him” (Notes on the Bible, 1834).

In John 5:26 Jesus says, “The Father has life in himself.” This is another way of saying that God alone is immortal. The immortality of the human soul, that is, its quality of continuing forever, is a reflection of God’s nature in us. God alone is without a beginning or end. All of His creatures, animal, human, and angelic, had a beginning. Our souls came into being at a certain point in history, and there was a time when our souls did not exist. Only our Creator is eternal.

Other passages that indicate the immortality of the human soul include Luke 23:43, where Jesus promises one of the thieves who is dying beside Him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Obviously, Jesus believed the soul of the repentant thief was going to survive physical death.

Daniel 12:2–3 says, “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.” This passage promises a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. When we die, our bodies return to “dust” (cf. Genesis 3:19). From that dust the body will return to either “everlasting life” or “everlasting contempt.” We must assume the soul will be reunited with the body at that time—otherwise, the resurrected bodies would be soulless and therefore inhuman.

In Matthew 25:46 Jesus said that the wicked “will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” The same Greek word, translated “eternal,” is used to describe both “punishment” and “life.” Jesus clearly taught that both the wicked and the righteous will exist forever in one of two conditions. Thus, every human being has an immortal, everlasting soul.

The unmistakable teaching of the Bible is that all people, whether saved or lost, will exist eternally. The spiritual part of us does not cease to exist when our fleshly bodies pass away in death. Our souls will live forever, either in the presence of God in heaven or in punishment in hell. The Bible also teaches that our souls will be reunited with our bodies at the resurrection. This hope of a bodily resurrection is at the very heart of the Christian faith (1 Corinthians 15:12–19).

Source: Is the human soul mortal or immortal? | GotQuestions.org

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Aunty Jane

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The human soul or spirit is that part of a man or woman that is not physical.
And here is the first mistake made by those who have been taught that the “soul” and the “spirit” are one and the same thing….they are not…and never were.
These are two completely separate words with two entirely different meanings.

The traditional rendering of the Hebrew word “neʹphesh” and the Greek word “psy·kheʹ”, when we examine the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal has. (Gen 1:20; 2:7, Num 31:28; 1 Peter 3:20)

In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ, are used in connection with earthly creatures, and refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

”Old King Cole was a merry old soul” is talking about the man himself, not some shadowy thing that lives inside of him. It describes the man’s personality…and we have English words that reflect this Greek word in showing what it meant originally…..e.g. a “psychiatrist” is a doctor who is concerned with the minds of individuals and what they might reflect as abnormal, behavioral traits that may need medical attention.

”Psychoanalyses“ also has to do with how people behave, as the psyche is the functioning of a living, human mind….like a “psychopath” displays deviant traits that lead to serious wrongdoing.
If something is psychedelic…it is an illusion of the mind.

So in Genesis, it says that Adam “became a living soul” when God started him breathing. (Gen 2:7)
He was not created and then “given” a soul….he was a soul. Souls are mortal. They die. (Ezek 18:4)
Animals are “souls” and breathe the same air that we do…..they also die the same death. (Eccl 3:18-20)
Breathing stops.

”Spirit” from the Hebrew word “ruʹach” and the Greek word “pneuʹma”, also have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight, and gives evidence of force in motion.

The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s holy spirit.

We have words in English that also reflect the meaning of this word….
“Pneumatic” has to do with something filled with air.
“Pneumonia” and “pneumonic” refer to problems of the lungs.
So, this word is associated with the lungs and air….breathing….so the “spirit” in man is not a shadowy invisible part of humans that leaves the body at death in the way that Christendom imagines that it does, but it is what animates a soul so that they live.

The soul is central to the personhood of a human being. It is the “true self”—who a person really is.
Yes….but there is not a single passage of Scripture that says that souls are immortal…..not one.
The soul is the center of life, feeling, thought, and action in a human being.
Yes….the whole living person and all that makes them who they are.
Without a doubt the human soul is immortal.
Show us please where scripture uses those two words side by side in any verse….souls are in unchangeably mortal.…created that way.

Humans were created to live forever on earth…..but it was conditional upon their continued obedience (Gen 3:22-23)……everlasting life is not the same as immortality.
A mortal‘s life can be destroyed, whereas a immortal cannot die.
That is, the soul is not subject to death. Once created, the soul never ceases to exist but is everlasting. The soul is spiritual and thus has the quality of immortality. In contrast, the body is physical; the earthly body we now possess is subject to death.
This is a widely accepted “belief”, but it is not supported by scripture at all.
The soul cannot exist without a body….and neither can a soul live without the spirit or “breath of life” in their lungs.
Humans are subject to death through Adam…..death is the opposite of life…..life can be restored in a resurrection, which is what Jesus came to give all who are in their their graves. (John 5:28-29)
The immortality of the soul is clearly seen in many places in Scripture. For example, in Psalm 23:6 David says, “I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.”
David had the Jewish view of death, not Christendom’s. David knew the prophesies about the Messiah and how the nation of Israel would become “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”…this was an earthly expectation, not a heavenly one. “The house of the Lord” in David’s day was the Temple….
In Ecclesiastes 12:7 the Preacher mentions two things that happen at death: “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”
Eccl 12:7 is often given as a proof text for immortality of the soul when in fact is has nothing to do with it since Jews had no belief in immortal souls from their scripture….they borrowed the concept later from the pagan Greeks.

The writer of Ecclesiastes was Solomon who also wrote….
”For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

Did Solomon contradict himself? Or is the meaning more in line with the Jewish belief in the resurrection?
That God is the only one who can return a soul to life by renewing the spirit, or “breath” into their lifeless resurrected body? Like Jesus did for Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

In 2 Corinthians 5:8 Paul says that to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (NKJV). All these passages indicate that the soul is immortal.
Paul wrote his contribution to scripture after Christ’s death and resurrection, and after the outpouring of the holy spirit at Pentecost. This is when the disciples received their token or pledge that they were heaven bound….rather than the Jewish expectation of an earthly kingdom. They understood that being “born again” meant something more that just a mystical experience…..it was confirmation of their election and a realization that they would have to shed their fleshly bodies and be “born again” in a new spirit body in order to be able to dwell in the presence of God….something mortal humans could not do. Being absent from the fleshly body, would mean being present in the spiritual realm, with their Lord….the place where Jesus went to prepare a place for them.
 
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St. SteVen

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And here is the first mistake made by those who have been taught that the “soul” and the “spirit” are one and the same thing….they are not…and never were.
These are two completely separate words with two entirely different meanings.
On that point we agree. (as per my topic OP)

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St. SteVen

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Eccl 12:7 is often given as a proof text for immortality of the soul when in fact is has nothing to do with it since Jews had no belief in immortal souls from their scripture….they borrowed the concept later from the pagan Greeks.

The writer of Ecclesiastes was Solomon who also wrote….
”For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”
Neither does it have to do with the state of the dead AFTER physical death.
The whole book is about what happens under the sun. Certainly a dead corpse knows nothing.

That reference also says the dead have "no further reward." and "all memory of them is forgotten." Do you believe that?
Will the dead be forgotten in the afterlife? Will they receive no rewards?

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Aunty Jane

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On that point we agree. (as per my topic OP)
If the Bible does not support the doctrine of the immortal soul, wouldn’t you wonder where it came from?

Why has the devil got the whole world believing that humans don’t really die, when that is exactly what God told Adam?

Gen 3:19…
”In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

There is no mention of “heaven or hell” or an afterlife of any description in that statement.…just death as a penalty for disobedience….a return to the dust, not for Adam’s soul but God made it personal by using “you”…meaning Adam himself.

What did the devil tell the woman. “You surely will not die”…..can you make the connection?
This lie is taught in all false religion.
Neither does it have to do with the state of the dead AFTER physical death.
The whole book is about what happens under the sun. Certainly a dead corpse knows nothing.
Since Jews did not believe in life after death except by a future resurrection….what Solomon stated had to do with life as we know it under the same sun that shines down on all of us.….those of us who experience this life.
The dead in a Jewish mind were actually dead…..because there was no other meaning to that word.
The same receptacle received them all….”Sheol” was the common grave of all mankind.
That reference also says the dead have "no further reward." and "all memory of them is forgotten." Do you believe that?
Yes…..the word for ”reward” there is “śāḵār” and it means “wages”…..IOW, they would not work for wages any longer. Their working life is over. And all memory of them is forgotten…..what can you tell me about your great, great, great grandparents? Do you have a memory of them….even if you have a photograph…..you cannot say that you remember them, if they were not in your life.
Will the dead be forgotten in the afterlife? Will they receive no rewards?
The dead are not forgotten by God, and that is not what Solomon said…..You need a Jewish lens when discussing Jewish Scripture….putting Christendom’s views on Jewish scripture is misleading to say the least.
 

St. SteVen

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If the Bible does not support the doctrine of the immortal soul, wouldn’t you wonder where it came from?

Why has the devil got the whole world believing that humans don’t really die, when that is exactly what God told Adam?
Wow. I'm familiar with posters playing the God Card.
But you are playing the Devil card. - LOL

I don't know of any humans that don't understand our physical mortality.

What did the devil tell the woman. “You surely will not die”…..can you make the connection?
This lie is taught in all false religion.
Did they die in the day they ate thereof? (not physically)
And did God tell Eve not to touch the fruit?

--- PARODY ---

Serpent: Did God really say... ?
Eve: He said don't eat and don't touch.
Adam: Oops, my bad, I said don't touch.
Eve: What?! God didn't say that? !!!
Adam: No, I added that because
I know you like to touch things without thinking.
Eve: So, you don't trust me? !!!
Adam: I'm looking out for our best interests. My job.
Eve: I see.
Serpent: Are you going to eat, or not? !!!
Eve: Let me check with the boss. - LOL
Adam: Scram serpent!
Serpent: Hiss... (walks away dejected)
Eve: Hey, let's check out that other tree.
Adam: Good idea!

Indeed.

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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Neither does it have to do with the state of the dead AFTER physical death.
The whole book is about what happens under the sun. Certainly a dead corpse knows nothing.
The dead in a Jewish mind were actually dead…..because there was no other meaning to that word.
The same receptacle received them all….”Sheol” was the common grave of all mankind.
Why do you need a PLACE for the unconscious nonexistent?

St. SteVen said:
That reference also says the dead have "no further reward." and "all memory of them is forgotten." Do you believe that?
Yes…..the word for ”reward” there is “śāḵār” and it means “wages”…..IOW, they would not work for wages any longer. Their working life is over. And all memory of them is forgotten…..what can you tell me about your great, great, great grandparents? Do you have a memory of them….even if you have a photograph…..you cannot say that you remember them, if they were not in your life.
That actually supports my position. It is not about the state of the dead in the afterlife,
but about the state of the physically dead here, under the sun.

St. SteVen said:
Will the dead be forgotten in the afterlife? Will they receive no rewards?
The dead are not forgotten by God, and that is not what Solomon said…..You need a Jewish lens when discussing Jewish Scripture….putting Christendom’s views on Jewish scripture is misleading to say the least.
Once again. That supports my position. Thanks.

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St. SteVen

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Was Jesus being misleading about the state of the dead
in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Even if you claim that it was a parable and not a story, the facts remain.
And wouldn't the audience have objected if it didn't match their view as well?

Luke 16:19-31 NIV

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

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Wick Stick

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On another topic this discussion below was happening.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
St. SteVen said:
Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead.
They leave their physical body behind. Everything else goes with them into the afterlife.
The dead have spiritual bodies. The souls of the dead.

That sounds like more work than I care to do on this.
And I know you won't buy it.

Might be worth a topic though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let's go over this, point-by-point.

- Everyone who passes into the afterlife is physically dead.
Not sure where the counter-argument would be for this.
Unless it was an objection to the term "afterlife". ???

- They leave their physical body behind.
Again, where would the counter-argument be for this?
Would anyone argue that the physical body went into the afterlife?
The dead, give up the ghost, as the saying goes. (that's telling)

- Everything else goes with them into the afterlife.
Like what? The spirit and soul of the individual. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
The physical body is left behind. The soul inhabits an incorruptible spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:52)
The soul contains the mind, will and emotions of the individual.
Their life's memories, for which they will be judged.

- The dead have spiritual bodies. The souls of the dead.
Pretty well covered in the point above. (Revelation 20:4)

[ cc: @Aunty Jane
I look forward to a bodily resurrection. As to the question of whether there is consciousness after I die and before I'm resurrected... I think the eminent modern philosopher Rocky Maivia said it best...

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St. SteVen

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What should we make of this?

Luke 20:37-39 NIV
But in the account of the burning bush,
even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham,
and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a]
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!”

[ cc: @WheresTheTruth
 

St. SteVen

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Another one.

John 11:25-27 NIV
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah,
the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

[
 

Behold

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Why has the devil got the whole world believing that humans don’t really die, when that is exactly what God told Adam?

In Genesis.....God was speaking of the death of the body, and spiritual separation, and of the 2nd death.......that was revealed later.

See, God was not finished with His Bible when Adam was in the Garden......so, until it was finished, much was yet to be revealed.


There is no mention of “heaven or hell” or an afterlife of any description in that statement.

Once again....... God was not finished revealing all that was to later be revealed, when you are in the 1st Book of the Bible.
But by the end of the 66th........there is a lot revealed about HELL, Damnation, and how to avoid them.
And there is a lot thats been revealed about Cults like the JW cult., and others.
 

St. SteVen

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New topic:


[
 

Behold

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But in the account of the burning bush,

Here is the most important revelation that we are to gain from "Moses and the Burning Bush".

its this.

Moses said...>"what is your NAME".......and God said....>" I am, that I Am".

Later, God in the Flesh said......>"before Abrham was born.........I AM"..