WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[JohnDB]

And that is the whole point and emphasis of the Truth that JESUS spoke in John 3:1-10

Therefore, any attempt to add to this passage which has clearly been defined by the Lord in the passage, will result in a 'understanding' that is not given in this passage and becomes contrary to the Truth.

YES....
Bit that in no way means that we are to isolate this story to stand alone away from Anthropology, History, place, themes, time, date of writing and etc.

Hermeneutics is a BLEND of arts and SCIENCES to determine the full context of what was written and why it was written.

Different Hermeneutics are used in different types of Biblical literature. There was an author trying to convey thoughts to an intended audience but on an extremely efficient basis. (Paper and ink were expensive....over a weeks wages for most books in scripture not including the content).

 

[David in NJ]

YES....
Bit that in no way means that we are to isolate this story to stand alone away from Anthropology, History, place, themes, time, date of writing and etc.

Hermeneutics is a BLEND of arts and SCIENCES to determine the full context of what was written and why it was written.

Different Hermeneutics are used in different types of Biblical literature. There was an author trying to convey thoughts to an intended audience but on an extremely efficient basis. (Paper and ink were expensive....over a weeks wages for most books in scripture not including the content).

The Author of Scripture implemented the Way of Truth thru basic 'child-like' understanding:

simple things like 'a' is before 'b'
color identifications such as 'red' for the color of blood and 'light/white' for purity and 'black' for darkness
physical attributes like 'water' is 'wet' and covers most of the earth is absolutely necessary for 'life' = oops = maybe that's IT
or is that too simple for intellectual capacity transistors???

These 'simple' things of God are within and even govern the hermeneutical approach to ascertaining grade school level grammar.

Hermeneutical association with scripture when applied under the constraint of Scripture will not lead away from the relevant topic in
a given passage/verse/lesson but will find it's place thru pre-determined authorization that was given by the Holy Spirit = in Scripture.

"Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?"

You may want to ask and find : What is the pre-determined authorization of the Holy Spirit

SHALOM my Brother in Christ

 

[JohnDB]

physical attributes like 'water' is 'wet' and covers most of the earth is absolutely necessary for 'life'

In the Old Testament the dichotomy difference between lawlessness and law was stark and observable. The same as watered land (where laws existed) and desert (where no laws existed)

Laws equaled life.
Lawlessness equaled death.
Which is how the symbolism of water equating to Law came about. The people of the Ancient Near East were very comfortable with the outdoor observable land around them.

Which led to the "mazot" on the doorposts of Jewish homes. (Little scroll with the ten commandments) It was a statement that "this house was ruled by these Laws"



Which leads to a discussion about various law sets. The Gentile laws often led to complete evaporation of a culture (no Assyrians, Philistines, Anakanites, Perezites, Cushites, Babylonians, or Medes today) However Jewish culture remains intact today. Their Law has preserved them as a people For thousands of years. No denying it. No other culture or people group in the world can make such a claim. There are no Romans in Rome...nobody claims that they are Roman Citizens where once people were very proud to have Roman Citizenship.

 

[David in NJ]

In the Old Testament the dichotomy difference between lawlessness and law was stark and observable. The same as watered land (where laws existed) and desert (where no laws existed)

Laws equaled life.
Lawlessness equaled death.
Which is how the symbolism of water equating to Law came about. The people of the Ancient Near East were very comfortable with the outdoor observable land around them.

Which led to the "mazot" on the doorposts of Jewish homes. (Little scroll with the ten commandments) It was a statement that "this house was ruled by these Laws"



Which leads to a discussion about various law sets. The Gentile laws often led to complete evaporation of a culture (no Assyrians, Philistines, Anakanites, Perezites, Cushites, Babylonians, or Medes today) However Jewish culture remains intact today. Their Law has preserved them as a people For thousands of years. No denying it. No other culture or people group in the world can make such a claim. There are no Romans in Rome...nobody claims that they are Roman Citizens where once people were very proud to have Roman Citizenship.

Why the diversion???

OK, let's run with it = Daniel ch2

the world governments, as spoken of in Daniel, are still in existence today and continue to influence and govern mankind

The king responded to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to tell me what I saw in the dream, as well as its interpretation?”

27Daniel answered the king, “No wise man, enchanter, medium, or magician can explain to the king the mystery of which he inquires. 28But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the latter days. Your dream and the visions that came into your mind as you lay on your bed were these:

29As you lay on your bed, O king, your thoughts turned to the future, and the Revealer of Mysteries made known to you what will happen. 30And to me this mystery has been revealed, not because I have more wisdom than any man alive, but in order that the interpretation might be made known to the king, and that you may understand the thoughts of your mind.

31As you, O king, were watching, a great statuec appeared. A great and dazzling statue stood before you, and its form was awesome. 32The head of the statue was pure gold, its chest and arms were silver, its belly and thighs were bronze, 33its legs were iron, and its feet were part iron and part clay.

34As you watched, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them. 35Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.

37You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given sovereignty, power, strength, and glory. 38Wherever the sons of men or beasts of the field or birds of the air dwell, He has given them into your hand and has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

39But after you, there will arise another kingdom, inferior to yours.

Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule the whole earth.

40Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; for iron shatters and crushes all things, and like iron that crushes all things, it will shatter and crush all the others. 41And just as you saw that the feet and toes were made partly of fired clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom, yet some of the strength of iron will be in it—just as you saw the iron mixed with clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together any more than iron mixes with clay.

44In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever. 45And just as you saw a stone being cut out of the mountain without human hands, and it shattered the iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold, so the great God has told the king what will happen in the future.

 

[JohnDB]

Why the diversion???

OK, let's run with it = Daniel ch2

the world governments, as spoken of in Daniel, are still in existence today and continue to influence and govern mankind

The king responded to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to tell me what I saw in the dream, as well as its interpretation?”

27Daniel answered the king, “No wise man, enchanter, medium, or magician can explain to the king the mystery of which he inquires. 28But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the latter days. Your dream and the visions that came into your mind as you lay on your bed were these:

29As you lay on your bed, O king, your thoughts turned to the future, and the Revealer of Mysteries made known to you what will happen. 30And to me this mystery has been revealed, not because I have more wisdom than any man alive, but in order that the interpretation might be made known to the king, and that you may understand the thoughts of your mind.

31As you, O king, were watching, a great statuec appeared. A great and dazzling statue stood before you, and its form was awesome. 32The head of the statue was pure gold, its chest and arms were silver, its belly and thighs were bronze, 33its legs were iron, and its feet were part iron and part clay.

34As you watched, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them. 35Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.

37You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given sovereignty, power, strength, and glory. 38Wherever the sons of men or beasts of the field or birds of the air dwell, He has given them into your hand and has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

39But after you, there will arise another kingdom, inferior to yours.

Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule the whole earth.

40Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; for iron shatters and crushes all things, and like iron that crushes all things, it will shatter and crush all the others. 41And just as you saw that the feet and toes were made partly of fired clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom, yet some of the strength of iron will be in it—just as you saw the iron mixed with clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together any more than iron mixes with clay.

44In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever. 45And just as you saw a stone being cut out of the mountain without human hands, and it shattered the iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold, so the great God has told the king what will happen in the future.

Not a diversion...it's a going back to the OP and point of this thread. Eschatology is a different discussion and topic.

Such as water coming from the "rock not cut by human hands". Striking the rock vx speaking to the rock to get water from it.

Pretty strong allusions as to how the symbolism of water equating to Law came about.

Otherwise the story of Moses striking the rock vx speaking to the rock was a pointless exercise with which Moses was denied entrance into the Promised Land.

EVERY word is precious....EVERY story has meaning.

 

[David in NJ]

Not a diversion...it's a going back to the OP and point of this thread. Eschatology is a different discussion and topic.

Such as water coming from the "rock not cut by human hands". Striking the rock vx speaking to the rock to get water from it.

Pretty strong allusions as to how the symbolism of water equating to Law came about.

Otherwise the story of Moses striking the rock vx speaking to the rock was a pointless exercise with which Moses was denied entrance into the Promised Land.

EVERY word is precious....EVERY story has meaning.

Were the two encounters with the 'rock/water' about the Law???

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@GodsGrace is correct in quoting the words of Christ = "few there be that find it"

JESUS compares the trillions of souls being born into this world but only "few" will receive Salvation
JESUS spoke the parable of the sower to explain this

I get “few there be that find it” is accurately quoted as what Jesus said. What I’m not certain of is how men interpret it. Is it good there’s only a few that find it?

Secondly JESUS also refers back to Noah and repeats the SAME message = "few"

Yes, same as in the days of Noah. 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
few in the ark of Noah
Few in Christ too??

 

[Jesus Wept]

Unless one is born, he cannot be reborn.
It would seem obvious to me that natural birth is what's being referenced here.