WHAT IS THIS WORLD REALLY ABOUT? WHY ARE WE HERE?

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Davy

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This will determine if one's bottle is able to expand with the new wine that is fermenting, or instead break because it cannot handle the new wine because one's bottles being old and cannot take it (Luke 5:37-38).

Did you know there was a previous world earth age PRIOR to this present one we are in now? And I don't mean the time between Adam and the later flood in Noah's day either. There was a previous world earth age before Adam and Eve; nor am I talking about any such idea as flesh people in that previous world, but instead an angelic existence living upon this earth.

Apostle Paul knew about that previous world. In Romans 8:18-25 Paul revealed that the creation was made subject to "vanity" by God, and placed in "bondage of corruption", in hope of a release from it, and that even we await the adoption of the redemption of our body (our "spiritual body", not our flesh). By that, Paul was indirectly revealing that God's creation originally was NOT in that "bondage of corruption" condition. In other words, at Genesis 1:1 in the "beginning", God had originally made a PERFECT creation, one that was NOT made subject to "vanity", and not in "bondage of corruption". Even in Isaiah 45:18, God said that He did not create the earth "in vain", but to be inhabited, lived upon.

This is a matter of Apostle Paul's idea "strong meat" of The Word, and not the "milk" (Heb.5). It isn't taught in most Churches, but it is written of in God's Word. There are many things written in God's Word not taught in the Churches in which we are left on our own to understand through disciplined Bible study. Some Churches can afford a teaching pastor who is a scholar of the Bible languages, and they might teach it (I know some that do, one in my area). So just because you may not have ever heard about the above, even though you may have attended many different Churches, that still does not mean these things are not written in God's Word. I was told by a couple of preachers that went to Bible seminary that they were told to keep the congregation away from any controversial issue, and stay with the milk. I got news for those seminaries; the existence of God's original PERFECT creation is not a controversial issue per His Word, because it is revealed in His Word. It is controversial to men's doctrines pushed by most seminaries, that's where the problem actually is derived because of 'milk' teaching of The Word, never progressing to the "strong meat" of The Word of God.

The Book of Genesis only gives a subtle hint of that old world. We don't even find out what Satan's original rebellion was about until study of God's parables about it in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. And even then, God masked it there in parable language using the flesh king of Babylon, and the flesh king of Tyrus as types for what Satan originally did. And if one does understand God's parable about it in Ezekiel 28 where He used the king of Tyrus as a type, He also gave us the Ezekiel 31 Chapter using types for when Satan was once exalted and followed God, but using strong symbolic metaphors like the idea of the high cedar, and the trees in His Garden of Eden, etc. This suggests that either not everyone is given to know what actually happened in the old world before Satan rebelled against God, or it is only a matter that God will reveal to those who show themselves approved in His Word, having become a "workman" in His Word. I believe it is for both reasons; it is kept from the profane who reject His Word as Truth, and it is kept from those who refuse to discipline theirselves in His Word, to become a workman in it.


So here is a SUMMARY of Biblical Events on the matter, and I will only give a general Book-Chapter location of Bible study for it, along with some archaeological facts; the rest is up to you to become a "workman":

1. God's original Perfect creation in the beginning - solely the Genesis 1:1 verse. The creation not in vanity, not in bondage of corruption, not yet (compare to Romans 8:18-25).

2. Lucifer, a name I use for the time before the devil rebelled against God, at this point Lucifer followed God and was at His Altar. Per Ezekiel 28, God said He created him perfect in his ways, before iniquity was found in him. God had made Lucifer a cherub that covereth, meaning it was Lucifer's job originally to guard God's Throne.

3. Ezekiel 31 reveals at that time when Lucifer followed God, that God had exalted him in His Garden of Eden, and under his shadow dwelt "all great nations". Thus the idea of nations existed in that time before Lucifer rebelled, as God is the creator of the nations. At this time, these nations were an angelic manifestation on earth. (There exists perfect human arch footprints running along with and beside and inside dinosaur footprints, both footprints fossilized together and dated at the same time. No human skeletal remains have been found dating back to the time of dinosaurs. Many only assume there has been, but the archaeological facts say no.)

4. Per Jeremiah 4:23-28, God revealed some hints of that world of old before Lucifer rebelled, and then when God ended that old world prior to Adam. The fruitful place had become a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at His presence by His fierce anger. Thus ancient cities existed on this earth back before Lucifer's rebellion. (Some of these ancient cities have been found today, like Gobekli Tepe, which Dr. Robert Schoch, a geologist professor at Boston University, says goes back to at least 9500 B.C, or maybe even further. The Bible chronology for the man Adam being formed in God's Garden was 4004 B.C. Also, Dr. Robert Schoch proved that the Great Sphinx in Egypt is much, much older than the date set by Egyptology. The weathering on the Sphinx Dr. Schoch proved was water erosion from rains over a long period, not sand erosion as thought by Egyptology. It means the Sphinx was created long before Egyptian history, at a time when the Sahara desert region was a tropical zone with much rain, circa 9000-11,000 B.C., and maybe even earlier.)

(Continued...)
 

Davy

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(Continued...)

5. Per Revelation 12:3-4, Lucifer as that "red dragon" is revealed having drawn one third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him. And at that same time, a beast kingdom was manifested upon the earth back then when Lucifer rebelled; it had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. The beast system of Revelation 13 in contrast, which is for the end of this world, is to have ten crowns instead of seven. And since Jesus showed in Revelation 17:15 that the "waters" linked to the Rev.13 beast system is about nations and peoples, that must also be applied to that beast system of old in Revelation 12:3-4 which Lucifer originally rebelled with. This is a confirmation the Ezekiel 31 parable that under Lucifer's shadow dwelt "all great nations", and is not just a label applied to the "king of Assyria" only, but the king of Assyria being used as a type for Lucifer of old.

6. At Genesis 1:2, the earth is laid waste from God's fierce anger because of Lucifer's rebellion against Him. The whole earth is covered with waters of a flood, all the cities were broken down, all the birds had fled, and there was no man, and all the mountains and hills had trembled. At the end of Hebrews 12, we are told that God will "Yet once more" shake this earth, showing the removing of those things that are shaken, so those things that cannot be shaken may remain. That "Yet once more" means there was a PREVIOUS shaking of this earth, and it was not at the time of Noah's flood, for that is nowhere written. God shook this earth once before, when Lucifer rebelled against Him, which is the subject of the Jeremiah 4:23-26 verses, and Hebrews 12:25-27.

7. At Genesis 1:6 through 1:10, God moves a portion of the waters overspread upon the earth up above the earth to create today's sky around the earth. The rest of the waters are left upon the earth, still covering it. Then God moves the waters left upon the earth around upon the earth until the dry land already underneath appears.

8. This creation God does after Lucifer's rebellion is not like God's PERFECT creation in the beginning. The state of the earth at Genesis 1:2 is made subject to "vanity", and is in "bondage of corruption", because of Lucifer's rebellion of old (Romans 8:18-25). For this reason, of God having placed His creation in bondage of corruption at this point, the earth would mourn, and the heavens above would be black (Jeremiah 4:27-28). The heavens above being black is a hint about rain clouds and storms. The sky atmosphere around the earth, because it has sky holes in it so the sun can bead down upon the earth's surface and create warm fronts, and then the cold fronts up at high altitudes mixing with that, it causes the violent storms of this present state of creation that's in bondage. This hints that God's original PERFECT creation of Genesis 1:1 in the beginning before Lucifer rebelled, had NO storms, and all those sky holes were plugged around the earth, suggesting a type of greenhouse effect of even temperatures around the whole earth.

9. Per Genesis 3 with the fall of man through the sin of Adam and Eve, the two sides, Satan and his children vs. Christ and His children, are thrust in battle for this present world to represent the bondage of this present time because of Lucifer's rebellion of old. God would ordain Lord Jesus to be born in the flesh like us, and die on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who would believe, and await their redemption from this present 2nd world earth age, and into the glorious liberty of the sons of God in the world to come, the future 3rd world earth age, the new heavens and a new earth (2 Peter 3).

10. During this present 2nd world earth age, Satan would attempt to re-establish his beast kingdom of old that he originally rebelled with in the world of old. He would work behind the scenes, from the heavenly dimension, through flesh kings, and try and establish a one-world kingdom over all peoples on earth, because that is what he had originally been exalted over in that old world before he rebelled in wanting to be GOD (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28 & 31). All these fleshy kingdoms of this 2nd world earth age would fail. (See Daniel 2 for the beast statue structure of old world kingdoms).

11. Then at the very end of this present 2nd world earth age, Satan will be allowed to setup his world beast kingdom on earth once more, for a short time. Daniel 2 reveals this coming beast kingdom will have feet made up of part clay mixed with part iron, and will have ten horns which are ten kings. Then the "stone" which the builders rejected (Lord Jesus Christ), will come and smite that beast upon its ten toed feet, and ALL... the previous beast kingdoms that will be revived with it at the end, shall all come tumbling down together. And then God's Eternal Kingdom will be setup in its place, and will be an everlasting Kingdom.

12. Satan will come to earth during that final beast kingdom, in person, showing himself that he is GOD, working great signs and wonders that will deceive the whole world, excepting Christ's elect. He will in every way try to mimic Lord Jesus Christ. He will exalt himself in a stone temple built in Jerusalem for the end, and claim to be GOD, and over all that is called GOD, or that is worshiped. This final beast one-world kingdom is reserved just for Satan himself as its literal king, right here on earth in plain sight. Then with the brightness of Christ's coming, Jesus will destroy that beast kingdom and beast king role, and Satan will locked in his pit prison for the "thousand years" reign by Lord Jesus Christ and His faithful elect, who like Daniel and his fellows refused to bow to the idol image, and thus were persecuted for it.
 
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MatthewG

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Here’s a condensed summary of your detailed reflection, organized into key themes and points:


New Wine & Old Bottles (Luke 5:37–38)

  • Spiritual growth requires openness and renewal.
  • Old ways or rigid beliefs may “burst” when faced with deeper truths or revelations.

The Idea of a Pre-Adamic World

  • A previous earth age may have existed before Adam and Eve, inhabited not by fleshly humans, but angelic beings.
  • Genesis 1:1 and Isaiah 45:18 suggest God’s original creation was perfect—not in “vanity” or “bondage of corruption” (Romans 8:18–25).

Lucifer’s Former Glory

  • Ezekiel 28: Lucifer was once a perfect cherub, assigned to guard God’s throne.
  • Ezekiel 31: Lucifer was exalted in Eden; angelic nations existed under his shadow before rebellion.

Hidden Truths in Scripture

  • The rebellion of Satan and details about the pre-Adamic world are veiled in symbolic language (Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28–31).
  • Understanding these truths may be reserved for those who diligently study and seek God's wisdom—His “workmen.”

Church Teaching & Maturity

  • Many churches focus on “milk” teachings, avoiding deeper or more controversial topics.
  • The call is to move toward “strong meat” (Hebrews 5), engaging in disciplined study beyond mainstream doctrine.

Archaeological Observations

  • Evidence of ancient civilizations predating recorded human history may support the idea of a previous earth age.
    • Footprints fossilized alongside dinosaurs.
    • Ancient sites like Göbekli Tepe (c. 9500 B.C.) and weather patterns on the Great Sphinx suggest timelines older than Adam’s biblical creation (4004 B.C.).
  • Certainly! Here's a condensed summary with clear key points from your message:


    Lucifer’s Rebellion & Angelic Fall (Rev. 12:3–4)

    • Lucifer, as the red dragon, drew one-third of angels to earth.
    • His rebellion manifested an early beast kingdom (10 horns, 7 heads, 7 crowns).
    • The "waters" (Rev. 17:15) symbolize nations, affirming Lucifer's influence over ancient angelic nations (Ezekiel 31).

    Earth’s First Judgment (Genesis 1:2; Jeremiah 4)

    • Lucifer’s rebellion led to Earth's destruction before Adam.
    • Earth was flooded, cities collapsed, birds fled—no humans yet existed.
    • Hebrews 12:25–27 refers to a previous “shaking” of the earth, distinct from Noah's flood.

    ☁️ Reshaping of Earth Post-Rebellion (Genesis 1:6–10)

    • God separated waters to create sky and land.
    • This reshaped world was different from the perfect original creation.

    Creation in Bondage (Romans 8; Jeremiah 4)

    • After rebellion, creation was subject to vanity and corruption.
    • Storms and uneven climate hint at a broken state compared to the original “greenhouse” perfection.

    Fall of Humanity & Spiritual Battle (Genesis 3; 2 Peter 3)

    • Adam and Eve's sin deepened the divide: Satan vs. Christ.
    • Jesus came to redeem humanity and lead believers into the coming renewed world—the “third earth age.”

    Satan’s Goal to Restore His Kingdom (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28, 31)

    • Satan works through earthly kings, seeking a one-world rule.
    • These kingdoms fail repeatedly (Daniel 2 outlines this cycle).

    Final Beast Kingdom & Christ’s Victory (Daniel 2; Revelation)

    • End-time beast kingdom will emerge with ten kings.
    • Jesus, the “stone,” will crush it and establish God's everlasting kingdom.

    ⚔️ Satan’s Final Deception & Judgment

    • Satan will appear on earth claiming to be God, performing false miracles.
    • He’ll occupy a temple in Jerusalem until Jesus returns to destroy him.
    • Christ will reign for 1,000 years with His faithful, who resisted the final deception.
 

Zao is life

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(Continued...)

5. Per Revelation 12:3-4, Lucifer as that "red dragon" is revealed having drawn one third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him. And at that same time, a beast kingdom was manifested upon the earth back then when Lucifer rebelled; it had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. The beast system of Revelation 13 in contrast, which is for the end of this world, is to have ten crowns instead of seven. And since Jesus showed in Revelation 17:15 that the "waters" linked to the Rev.13 beast system is about nations and peoples, that must also be applied to that beast system of old in Revelation 12:3-4 which Lucifer originally rebelled with. This is a confirmation the Ezekiel 31 parable that under Lucifer's shadow dwelt "all great nations", and is not just a label applied to the "king of Assyria" only, but the king of Assyria being used as a type for Lucifer of old.

It IS interesting but I question how much knowledge about these things is based on suppositions, which in turn are based on scant biblical records + archeology.

And I question what God wants us to concern ourselves with for now. IMO a more important question is: What does the Bible teach us about the purpose of God for creating mankind?

It teaches us that God had (and still has) a purpose for creating mankind (Genesis 1:26-28 and Psalm 8:3-8).

The knowledge that God is interested in us having is what He inspired the apostles to tell us about:

1 Timothy 2
4 God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God's purpose at his appointed time.

1 Thessalonians 4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour.

Philippians 1
Confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians
13 But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 He called you to this salvation through our gospel, so that you may possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions that we taught you, whether by speech or by letter. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by grace gave us eternal comfort and good hope, 17 encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good thing you do or say.

WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT KNOWLEDGE

1 Corinthians 8:1b
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.

1 Corinthians 13
8 Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease;

if there is knowledge, it will be set aside.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, 10 but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I don't believe Jesus had the same things in mind when He spoke about new wine and old wine-skins that your post implies He did.​
 

Davy

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These things from God's Word I have covered in this thread Christ's Apostles knew about. The reason that much of it sounds foreign to many is because of man's Social Religious practices that are outside of God's Word. Like Hebrews 5 revealed, many brethren in Apostle Paul's time had been Christians long enough to have become teachers, but they instead were like those who had need for the 'milk' of God's Word, and not the "strong meat". They lacked discernment by The Holy Spirit. That is what playing Social Religion will do to a believer. They become like Jesus said, old bottles (wine skins) that won't hold the New Wine full strength of God's written Word. And those instead become doubting of the "strong meat" of God's Word.

That is the condition which Satan desires for the believer on Lord Jesus Christ, because it does not heed many warnings written in God's Word, nor much of the history of the "mystery of iniquity" so as to be aware of it. Apostle Paul knew about, which is why he mentioned about the "mystery of iniquity" in 2 Thessalonians 2. Apostle John knew about it which is why he made a distinction between the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist compared to the "many antichrists" servants of the Antichrist that were already at work. Jude obviously knew about it too, which is why he mentioned about the "crept in unawares" that were ordained to the condemnation of being against Christ. Apostle Peter knew about it as he warned of the "natural brute beasts" that were created to be destroyed (2 Peter 2:12). King David knew about it also, as he often had rebuke for the wicked, the "workers of iniquity" specifically that he mentioned in the Psalms.

Therefore, MARK those "serpents" and "vipers" of Matthew 23:29 who try to take this Biblical understanding away from you brethren in Christ. That is what they are wanting to do, to replace it with Social Religion instead, getting you away from God's Word as written as much as their deceptions will take you.


Why Are We Here Then?

Something I get asked is why did God bring this present world time when He could have simply destroyed Lucifer and those who rebelled with him in that old world? Then we would not have to go through all these trials and tribulations of this present world.

It's about Free Will. For those of you who have children, do you Force... them to love you? Or do you want that they love you by their own choice? The latter of course; we want their love that comes from their own free will. Otherwise they would only be like robots if we forced them to love us. Same with our Heavenly Father, He does not force us to love Him and His Son. He desires our love, for He is our true Father, The Father of our souls. This is why He created us with free will. He created us and all things for His pleasure (Rev.4:11).

We are here then, to make a choice who we want to follow and either live with Him and His Son for the Eternity, or... the other choice of not wanting to follow Him or anyone, but be like our own god, those who reject Him would rather perish instead of loving Him. Thus those who go into the future "lake of fire" actually choose... to perish. God does not make them perish, for like Peter said, God is long suffering in not wishing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
 
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pandaflower

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We ,this world,is precisely as God intends.

We are the equivalent of God's ant farm.

"For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen."


" Whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen."


teamwork-ant-teamwork.gif

 

ScottA

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Why Are We Here Then?

Something I get asked is why did God bring this present world time when He could have simply destroyed Lucifer and those who rebelled with him in that old world? Then we would not have to go through all these trials and tribulations of this present world.

It's about Free Will. For those of you who have children, do you Force... them to love you? Or do you want that they love you by their own choice? The latter of course; we want their love that comes from their own free will. Otherwise they would only be like robots if we forced them to love us. Same with our Heavenly Father, He does not force us to love Him and His Son. He desires our love, for He is our true Father, The Father of our souls. This is why He created us with free will. He created us and all things for His pleasure (Rev.4:11).

We are here then, to make a choice who we want to follow and either live with Him and His Son for the Eternity, or... the other choice of not wanting to follow Him or anyone, but be like our own god, those who reject Him would rather perish instead of loving Him. Thus those who go into the future "lake of fire" actually choose... to perish. God does not make them perish, for like Peter said, God is long suffering in not wishing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
So it may seem.

However, all this world, even the world before, is rather made manifest in this place and time for the first and only time--not for freewill, but because of it. After the fact.

In other words, this world is uniquely the physical manifestation (by creation) and "image" brought forth by the power of God--putting on display all that was (past tense) before the foundation of the world was brought into form--as a witness of what was, after which would come the Judgement. This is the evidence and the charge brought before a jury of our peers, and the last will and testament of those who are perishing, not having before turned from their rejection of God by their own freewill. These are the pages of a book that was written before, and only now read. Wherein our stories are a part of His story (history), in which we all are doing what we are doing according to what we were before the world began.

Meaning, if in that former freewill we did change/repent of our actions against God, we will walk it out accordingly in this lifetime; likewise, if we did not. This is who we are made manifest, in a world created by God apart from Himself, for just such a purpose. Then comes the end.
 
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soberxp

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In my personal opinion, the world of Earth was split from the Garden of Eden, much like cell division. God did indeed create the world, but not directly the one we live in now. This world bears traces of Eden, yet it is not the perfect world originally created by God.

The Garden of Eden was a world founded upon the Tree of Life,
whereas our present world is built upon another tree.the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"
 

Taken

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Did you know there was a previous world earth age PRIOR to this present one we are in now?
…an angelic existence living upon this earth.

Disagree.

God Created the Heaven(S) and the Earth (Not Earth(S)

There is This World “Earth”, Created Perfect
… And For Gods Pleasure He Created and Made ManKIND to inhabit the Earth.

There are the Worlds of “ Heaven’S”, Created Perfect.
…And for Gods Desire for Helpers / Ministers He Created and Made Spirits He called Angels and Created and Made the Heavens for their Habitat.

There is the World Above the Heaven(S)…
(To which Jesus said He was From ABOVE.)
That is Gods “Estate”, where no man can go, and ( indication seems angels are not allowed there as well ).

Paul revealed that the creation was made subject to "vanity" by God, and placed in "bondage of corruption",

The Earth was created and made Perfect.
The humans are created and made Perfect…
But Not Naturally Born in perfection.

Man was Given dominion over the Earth…and Some take care of the Earth, Some Do Not…and Governments compel the People through Threat, Corruption, to continuously Labor to PAY the Government coffers, as a Privilege to have, use, the land the people labor, buy, maintain.

In the "beginning", God had originally made a PERFECT creation, one that was NOT made subject to "vanity", and not in "bondage of corruption".

Yes.

This is a matter of Apostle Paul's idea "strong meat" of The Word, and not the "milk" (Heb.5).

Disagree.
Milk and Meat has to do with individual men and the extent of their Effort to HEAR the Word of God.

It isn't taught in most Churches,

I would disagree regarding Milk and Meat…

But would agree what you purpose is likely Never taught in Churches..
Nothing in Scripture speaks of a Former Earth.

we are left on our own to understand through disciplined Bible study.

Disagree.
Scripture is to read, learn, study KNOWLEDGE… and To Verify what they Do Hear is Scripturally True.

Understanding of the Knowledge ALWAYS comes from the Lord God.

1 Chr 22:
[12a]Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding,

Job 32:
[8b]But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

I was told by a couple of preachers that went to Bible seminary that they were told to keep the congregation away from any controversial issue, and stay with the milk.

A church congregation is Mixed..
Members, visitors, very young children, adults, believers, non-believers…
A preachers Job (very difficult)is to select a topic and Conduct a Sermon that captures the interest of Every one in the congregation.
* Sunday School, Bible Study groups, works well for divisional, young, old, male, female, newbie, seasoned, study and discussion topics.

The Book of Genesis only gives a subtle hint of that old world.

Disagree with that teaching.

This World (Earth) was created perfect.
The creature / “man”…made a choice God warned Against…
The Earth… habitat created for man Became Cursed.



Interesting take, but not Scripturally taught or verified.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Davy

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Just so brethren know, I am not an evolutionist. I in no way believe in Darwin's theories of the evolution of species, nor do I believe in later attempts to apply Darwin's evolution theories to small changes in nature. I believe in God's Creation per His Word as written.

There is much propaganda pushed by pseudo-science, and especially in Hollywood movies that claim to portray true science. In the movie Inherit The Wind, which was about the Scopes so-called Monkey Trial in Dayton, Tenn. A school teacher had violated the Butler Act which at that time prevented the theory of evolution from being taught in the Tennessee public schools. The prosecuting attorney, a Fundamentalist preacher, was asked about the creation and how old he thought the earth was. The preacher said he didn't know how old the earth was, but that it was obviously very ancient.

In other words, the Fundamentalist preacher did not hold to the religious theory that came from 17th century bishop Ussher's chronology of Bible history, that God created the earth the same time He created Adam. That is where the old 6,000 years old earth theory was derived from, part of New Creationist belief.

I'm an Old Creationist, which still does not include any theory of evolution.


I believe like Apostle Paul did.

Rom 8:18-23
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

This word "vanity" in the Greek is the same... idea as the Hebrew word 'tohuw' translated to "without form" in Genesis 1:2, and as "in vain" in Isaiah 45:18...

Gen 1:2
2 And the earth was
without form (tohu), and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV

Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not
in vain (tohu), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV


Genesis 1:2 says the earth had become in that state of vanity (Hebrew tohuw). Isaiah 45:18 God said He did NOT CREATE THE EARTH tohuw, in vain, Apostle Paul's idea of the earth being made subject to "vanity".

It's simple math little children (for those who refuse to heed that written Scripture). Hebrew tohu, or Greek mataiotes which Paul used, is the same idea, God's creation was PLACED INTO that state of VANITY, or WITHOUT FORM.

Could that mean then, that God had a PREVIOUS ORIGINAL PERFECT CREATION that was NOT in that vanity or without form state?? YES! YES!

Every time I hear some Biblically illiterate preacher at the pulpit claim that the earth being "without form" means the earth didn't yet exist, and was in some outer space vacuum nebulae state, I have to laugh! That idea actually comes from the materialist science crowd, and is more allied with man's false theory evolution than with what is actually written there in the Hebrew!

So here's the simple math problem:
1. not in vanity
2. made subject to vanity

Those who make the claim that God's creation has always been Perfect, and is so even now, are not really following God's Word as written. They instead are following a tradition of man.

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from
the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


So God's creation today is perfect eh? Why does God's creation "groaneth and travaileth in pain" then? Who in their right mind would claim the creation is in a perfect good state while travailing and groaning in pain?? A religious nut would, who doesn't really stay in God's Word for themselves, but instead heeds men's pop traditions outside God's Word. For those, it's not really about God's Truth as written, but about what is Popular, and what the majority think and believe, and particularly what their illiterate preachers tell them to think that actually are following others from other old pop traditions, like a vicious circle.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
KJV


I'll not go into that above verse, which Paul goes too deep there for the majority on a forum like this one.

In all of the Romans 8 KJV verses above, the words "creature" and "creation" are the same Greek word ktisis which means the creation.

God HAD made a Perfect Creation in the "beginning", at Genesis 1:1. That was the time PRIOR to Lucifer's rebellion against Him. But at Genesis 1:2, God had then ended that previous Perfect creation state, and instead placed His creation in "bondage of corruption", and "made subject to vanity".

This is how in the future new heavens and a new earth, there will be no more sea. That means no more oceans, no more the earth covered with about 70% water. It means EARTH CHANGES.

What many brethren fail to understand in God's Word is how the future new heavens and a new earth changes relate to how God's original PERFECT creation was prior to Lucifer's rebellion. Many just do not understand the scope of our Heavenly Father's Power.