What is Works Theology?

[GodsGrace]

If all that is written about is our need to have good works then it is a works theology, period.

OK HR.
Believe what you will.
I'm tired today.

Just remember that I may be in the gospels too much,
but YOU are in Paul's epsitles too much.

Remember that JESUS IS GOD
and that He knew what He was talking about in the gospels....

It's not like He woke up one day and said...
Gosh darn it,,,I preached everything wrong...
Let me knock Paul off his horse and I'll let HIM teach the correct gospel.

I have nothing more to say.

 

[H. Richard]

OK HR.
Believe what you will.
I'm tired today.

Just remember that I may be in the gospels too much,
but YOU are in Paul's epsitles too much.

Remember that JESUS IS GOD
and that He knew what He was talking about in the gospels....

It's not like He woke up one day and said...
Gosh darn it,,,I preached everything wrong...
Let me knock Paul off his horse and I'll let HIM teach the correct gospel.

I have nothing more to say.

Yes, Jesus is God and He met Paul and sent Him to the Gentiles, and the whole world, with a gospel of God's grace and you refuse to accept that gospel.

I believe, and teach, the gospel of grace that Jesus gave to Paul for us and here you are writing that I am in the wrong. To you, and the religious, I am wrong because I don't teach the works of man for salvation.

You say you don't know what works theology is and you teach it If you teach that works are necessary then you are teaching a works theology. You are one of those that totally believe what James said to the Jews under the law is for us, today, then you are teaching a works gospel.

I am faulted for not tooting my horn about works. If I have any good works it is because The Holy Spirit has led me to do them, not because I feel they are necessary for my salvation and certainly not to get brownie points All the religious fault me because I don't side with them saying I have to have works in order to be saved.

Wake up people! That is works theology. But those that say they are not doing it ARE DOING IT.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, Jesus is God and He met Paul and sent Him to the Gentiles, and the whole world, with a gospel of God's grace and you refuse to accept that gospel.

I believe, and teach, the gospel of grace that Jesus gave to Paul for us and here you are writing that I am in the wrong. To you, and the religious, I am wrong because I don't teach the works of man for salvation.

You say you don't know what works theology is and you teach it If you teach that works are necessary then you are teaching a works theology. You are one of those that totally believe what James said to the Jews under the law is for us, today, then you are teaching a works gospel.

I am faulted for not tooting my horn about works. If I have any good works it is because The Holy Spirit has led me to do them, not because I feel they are necessary for my salvation and certainly not to get brownie points All the religious fault me because I don't side with them saying I have to have works in order to be saved.

Wake up people! That is works theology. But those that say they are not doing it ARE DOING IT.

Who told you I'm a religious?
You been peeking through my window?
I've said many times works do not save.
So the Holy Spirit leads you to do good deeds.
Who leads ME to do good deeds?

What did James say that was wrong?
You think you're more right than James?

And YOU teach?
Who do you teach?

You better be careful if you teach.
God will hold you responsible for every word that comes out of your mouth.
Make sure the words are correct and what Jesus would have taught.
He's judging...not Paul.

 

[friend of]

1 Peter 1:16 tells us to be holy as he is Holy

 

[Mal'ak]

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Jesus died on the cross to make it possible that salvation is reserved in Heaven for us, "though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious then gold". It is not about boasting, it is about standing against evil and proving our faith. If God wanted to just "predestinate" us, he just wouldn't give us free will. But did God want a robot worshipping him for all eternity, or a living soul? To have real love, the person must choose you for themselves even when things are bad.

I choose the Holy Father through Jesus Christ, and I will strive to prove my love by my actions so I can be with my Father. I am a weak sinful human that can not do it myself, so I give all glory and credit to the Father for helping me through this life.

Those that are against works and obedience are just spoiled children, "I do not need to prove myself to God, going to Heaven is my birthright and God will give it to me without me doing anything in return!" Time to wake up: the Father does not owe you anything, he does not need to grovel to your demands. You are the servant, the Father is the master. If a servant does not do their work, they are worthless and thrown out on the street. If a servant does not obey the master, they are worthless and thrown out on the street.

Do not put your self above who you are; work and obey...if you are too proud, your delusions of automatic eternity is your only reward.

 

[friend of]

Do you preach Christ crucified or do you preach you can become perfect in the flesh. IMHO It is all about you and your becoming sinless in the flesh isn't it

Galatians 3:3

You are the servant, the Father is the master. If a servant does not do their work, they are worthless and thrown out on the street.

1 Peter 2:16

 

[OzSpen]

Does this theology really exist or am I making it up?

IMHO yes it really does exist. If you ask most people in the Christian religion why they think they are going to heaven the first things out of their mouth will be about what they do, or have done. --- In other words it will be about themselves and their works. -- Very few will “”first”” say it is because Jesus’ work on the cross paid for their sins. If they mention the cross it will have to be coerced. -- Why do they do that? IMHO it is because they feel their works are what really matters. Perhaps that is because that is what they have been taught in a “works theology.”

The most discussed idea on forums is works. To believe works follow faith is find, but to constantly harp on it is to judge other Christians and to make “”works the center of Christianity.”” This is a form of boasting and trying to elevate some people as being closer to God than others. It makes Christianity a class system. IMHO this is what causes the world to turn against Christianity. The world see Christianity as a works based religion just like all the other works based religions and not as a religion in which God has reconciled sinners to God.

Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works? If they are a Christian won’t they have good works? Do they need others to kick them into doing good works? A true child of God does not do good works to be seen by men. They do not do them to prove they have faith. God knows whether they have faith or not. No one needs to prove their faith to any man.

Seems to me that if they are not Christians all the harping about doing good works will not make them a Christian. It also seems to me that all the harping about good works only frustrates a child of God who is living in a body with a sinful nature that will sin.

Where am I wrong?
****

Besides, since a true child of God is NOT doing works to be seen by men how can you tell if they are doing good works. Oh, I get it, they must do their good works so that men can see them and say how wonderful they are. --- Amazing!

Matt 6:1-4 Do Good to Please God

1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. NKJV

I don't think the above tell us to do good works so that men will see them.

Jesus told the world about God. I believe we are to tell the world about Jesus. We are to teach that God was in Jesus reconciling mankind to God. That is how we glorify God and His Son. I believe this to be our primary mission.

I don't see the children of God as being lazy. I see all of mankind living in bodies with a sinful nature needing Jesus' work on the cross. When I start thinking of myself as being better than others then I need to look in a mirror. When I think I am so good it is then that I should compare myself to Jesus and realize how sinful I am.

I think people ought to take another look at the event in the garden. Didn't Satan tell eve that she could be "LIKE GOD?"

I don't approve of Christians going around pretending to be like Jesus when there is no way under the sun that they can be like Jesus. If you want the world to look at you and see Jesus then what you are saying to the world is that Jesus is like you and that is just plain wrong. Jesus is God and we are not like Him in the flesh.

continued

H Richard,

There is a prerequisite question needing an answer before we understand works theology (good works). That is: Are you born again by the Spirit of God (e.g. John 3:1-8 ESV)? Have you confessed your sin to God (1 John 1:8-10), repented (Luke 24:47), and received Jesus as your Lord and Saviour (John 1:12).

If this has happened and the person continues to persevere in the faith, then good works will demonstrate that faith (James 2:14-26 NET).

However, if a person is trying to attain salvation by means of good works, it's a big flop (see Eph 2:8-9). Good works prior to salvation will not cause anyone to enter the kingdom.

Good works after salvation are compulsory to demonstrate one has genuine faith. In fact at the final judgment, believers will have their good works judged. If you don't believe me, take a read of Matt 25:31-46 (NET).

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

H Richard,

There is a prerequisite question needing an answer before we understand works theology (good works). That is: Are you born again by the Spirit of God (e.g. John 3:1-8 ESV)? Have you confessed your sin to God (1 John 1:8-10), repented (Luke 24:47), and received Jesus as your Lord and Saviour (John 1:12).

If this has happened and the person continues to persevere in the faith, then good works will demonstrate that faith (James 2:14-26 NET).

However, if a person is trying to attain salvation by means of good works, it's a big flop (see Eph 2:8-9). Good works prior to salvation will not cause anyone to enter the kingdom.

Good works after salvation are compulsory to demonstrate one has genuine faith. In fact at the final judgment, believers will have their good works judged. If you don't believe me, take a read of Matt 25:31-46 (NET).

Oz

What is your definition of works?

The fallacy in the works gospel is that people do good works that are not children of God. Some Muslims do good works. Are they saved?
The children of God are to bare fruit for Christ. That means they are ambassadors for Christ. Sharing the gospel of grace is the good works the children of God are to do. If all the Christians teach is good works of the flesh then how does the message of Jesus paying for all the sins of the world get through?

You reference James and use his book to help your theology. A book that was clearly written to the Jews who were under the law. You used the words "genuine faith". How can a person see "genuine faith" in another person? Are those Muslims that do good works saved?

Only God can see into the heart and know its faith. There are many that are seen by others to be Christian because of what they do. But, as can be seen they sin just as everyone else does. I see "genuine faith" when a person is not moved by Satan to embrace a false gospel of works. I see them on this forum and I see what the good works crowd does to them.

The gospel of good works is used to get people to believe that good works will save, or keep them saved and that is not true. Many on this forum preach good works and when you see what they write about others it is obvious that they are not Christian. They just can't write a reply stating what they believe without attacking the character of others. This and all along they preach good works. I suppose the Pharisees were doing a good work when they lied about Jesus and sent Him to be crucified.

A person has to either have faith in what Jesus did on the cross for mankind or just think they can be like Jesus and do good works of the flesh to save them. Ask the question as to why they think they are saved and see the answers that they give.

 

[bbyrd009]

still trying, huh HR. Still beating this retarded, broken drum even after the truth was made plain by your own self in another thread, right? So Helen, tell me now, did i make my point or not? See bc after HR made it crystal clear that works definitely were important, paramount even, here he is back doing the same thing see, proudly making himself a hypocrite?

 

[bbyrd009]

so, just like in Ghostbusters ok bro, you have made your choice obvious now, and you are going to be made to experience once again the reaping that comes from that sowing, ok? Bc God will not be mocked, even by you bro, sorry.

Last time you got shown up for a hypocrite--right? Remeber that HR. That post you could not even respond to, even without tagging me?--and maybe got your feelings hurt for a day or two, right? But apparently that was not effective.

And i'm not like inferring some action by me now or anything, ok, i am not going to do a single thing now, to illustrate by your own example once again that you are a hypocrite and are intentionally lying here, bc i dont have to, HR, God does not need my help i guess lol.

So understand what is really going on here, ok, bc i say again that God will not be mocked, amd i will not have to do a single thing here in order that it be revealed once more to you, In Living Color i bet this time, that works are really all you care about too. Only fwiw i would be expecting a little blood prolly this time, ok?

 

[H. Richard]

Galatians 3:3 1 Peter 2:16

I like this one;
Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

 

[bbyrd009]

and the hell of it is, you are going to come here and tell us the story from your own mouth, just like last time, ok, still not even realizing that what you are saying wil be condemning you! I say this with confidence because you did not hear last time, and you are not hearing now ok.

So keep doubling down here, and expecting everything to go on as normal ok.
and May God have mercy on you HR

 

[bbyrd009]

OK HR.
Believe what you will.
I'm tired today.

Just remember that I may be in the gospels too much,
but YOU are in Paul's epsitles too much.

Remember that JESUS IS GOD
and that He knew what He was talking about in the gospels....

It's not like He woke up one day and said...
Gosh darn it,,,I preached everything wrong...
Let me knock Paul off his horse and I'll let HIM teach the correct gospel.

I have nothing more to say.

lol. not like you were actually getting any responses anyway, right? i mean you were getting tagged and all but were any of your posts actually responded to in kind? Any points in your posts addressed? HR does not have any beliefs, as it might be seen, which is why he cannot discuss them i guess, bc see they are actually absolute truths to his mind, and every single one of them must be absolutely true no debate allowed or the whole tower falls into a pile i guess

this is why i am driven to point out ppl and behaviors even, bc beliefs we cannot discuss here, i mean just try and discuss one of HRs "beliefs" and see! You are always, always always going to have to end up at "believe what you will" right?

 

[bbyrd009]

ok HR,best of luck ok? And i'll be following you for that reveal, i'll quote it when you post it ok. Youre gonna like it too i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I like this one;
Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

you like that one bc you are confused as to who another's servant is wadr. We both supposedly serve the some one, yes?

 

[bbyrd009]

see, you want a little peace, just send em back behind their tree i guess lol

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What is your definition of works?

The fallacy in the works gospel is that people do good works that are not children of God. Some Muslims do good works. Are they saved?

Answering this question for myself, I have never argued that doing good works (feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting the sick) will save a lost, unforgiven, alien sinner.

What I have said, and what the Bible teaches, is that OBEDIENCE in doing God's will does saves. God has required of the lost man to be saved that he believe (John 8:24) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Matthew 10:32-33) and be baptized (Mark 16:16). Therefore CONDITIONAL obedience to God's will does save as Paul points out in Romans 6:16 "obedience unto righteousness.


"Obedience UNTO righteousness"
believe UNTO righteousness Romans 10:10
repentance UNTO life Acts 11:18
confession UNTO salvation Romans 10:10
baptism UNTO remission of sins Acts 2:38

Belief, repentance, confession and baptism are all forms of obedience to the will of God and required by God for the lost unforgiven alien sinner to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

lol. not like you were actually getting any responses anyway, right? i mean you were getting tagged and all but were any of your posts actually responded to in kind? Any points in your posts addressed? HR does not have any beliefs, as it might be seen, which is why he cannot discuss them i guess, bc see they are actually absolute truths to his mind, and every single one of them must be absolutely true no debate allowed or the whole tower falls into a pile i guess

this is why i am driven to point out ppl and behaviors even, bc beliefs we cannot discuss here, i mean just try and discuss one of HRs "beliefs" and see! You are always, always always going to have to end up at "believe what you will" right?

When I say believe what you will,,,,I mean it.
Not everything is worth debating...as far as I'm concerned I just will debate soteriology that I think is dangerous to a person's soul.
Otherwise, yeah...everyone could believe what they will if it's not harmful.

 

[bbyrd009]

see, you want a little peace, just send em back behind their tree i guess lol

you get like a half hour of bliss, huh
works every time, does not ever fail btw

which btw do not do this irl right, this is not acceptable behavior, i do not condone calling believers out for their sin. Teachhers are called to a higher standard, which i guess i should go drag here, bc that is...just barely what that v is saying

 

[bbyrd009]

When I say believe what you will,,,,I mean it.
Not everything is worth debating...as far as I'm concerned I just will debate soteriology that I think is dangerous to a person's soul.
Otherwise, yeah...everyone could believe what they will if it's not harmful.

ha well as you can see they can believe what they will if it is harmful too right. beliefs about the past or the future that cannot be verified or even Quoted can be terminal, are very likely terminal, in most cases imo. Roman Centurion's Daugters might still be raised, but i suggest that is rarer than hens teeth, "I have not found so great a faith in anyone" etcetcetc