What is your hope in dark times of your life?

[Amira]

Dear Jackie D,
perhaps a better way of putting it Amira, would have been that there will come a day when family, friends, philosophy won't be enough to get you through a time of need or trouble. I don't discount the need for people and knowledge in our lives regarding the deeper more meaningful things about life. But I do discount being dependant on them. And knowing what I know about relationship with Christ is that even during some of the darkest days, the memory of things known and learned that keep me holding on can be hard to find.
I'd like to point out that I am not dependent on the people in my life, but their legacy and support is always with me, even the ones who are now dead.
Let me put it this way regarding philosophy....philosophy is wisdom of man. Man's minds are in error about God more than they are correct. Philosophy helps man to feel wise or as your quote a sense of some kind of security. These sayings seem to have the answers to many questions or the key to living life, when all they are IMO, are words that show a sense of hyper-spirituality that doesn't quite mesh with the Laws and Nature of God....again my opinion only.
Is religion not also largely wisdom of man? Even if we assume that there is God. Do you not interpret his word with your human capabilities? Do you now experience religion as a human being?But you could also turn this question sort of around and ask: What does religion mean to you apart from its ability to help you through difficult times?

 

[Jackie D]

Amira;41903 Dear Jackie D,
Dear Amira
I'd like to point out that I am not dependent on the people in my life, but their legacy and support is always with me, even the ones who are now dead.
I am not necessarily saying that YOU are dependant on people...I suppose I should have said when people are dependant on people, or better yet it is not wise to be dependant on people to always be there for us....it is not a personal statement in regards to your character.
Is religion not also largely wisdom of man? Even if we assume that there is God. Do you not interpret his word with your human capabilities? Do you now experience religion as a human being?
Yes religion is largely wisdom of man. Had you paid attention to my words you would see that I do not have religion nor do I experience religion. I believe in God, not religion.
But you could also turn this question sort of around and ask: What does religion mean to you apart from its ability to help you through difficult times
religion to me is just another thing to fill peoples minds and time with ritual and nonsense. I do not believe in religion, I believe in God. And it is God who gets me through the difficult times....please read the posts I have put throughout this forum, I am NOT a supporter of religion but a supporter of relationship with Christ...blessings

 

[forgivenWretch]

Is religion not also largely wisdom of man?
Religion is TOTALLY man made and BNM does it define wisdom.

 

[Amira]

Dear Jackie D,
religion to me is just another thing to fill peoples minds and time with ritual and nonsense. I do not believe in religion, I believe in God. And it is God who gets me through the difficult times....please read the posts I have put throughout this forum, I am NOT a supporter of religion but a supporter of relationship with Christ...blessings
I don't know if there is some misunderstanding of terminology here, but I think OED defines what I mean by religion quite well.
OED: 4. a. A particular system of faith and worship. 5. a. Recognition on the part of man of some higher unseen power as having control of his destiny, and as being entitled to obedience, reverence, and worship; the general mental and moral attitude resulting from this belief, with reference to its effect upon the individual or the community; personal or general acceptance of this feeling as a standard of spiritual and practical life.
Therefore, if you believe in God, Christ and the Bible, isn't that a religion?Religion as an institute, such as a church, is a different matter of course.

 

[Jackie D]

(Amira;41925)
Dear Jackie D,I don't know if there is some misunderstanding of terminology here, but I think OED defines what I mean by religion quite well.Therefore, if you believe in God, Christ and the Bible, isn't that a religion?Religion as an institute, such as a church, is a different matter of course.
one example of religion from dictionary.com1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, Religion is defined in dictionary.com as being a two phase thing. According to my understanding there is the belief system which we could say begins with my belief in God, Christ and the Holy Bible. Every difinition that I read regarding religion cannot equal religion unless there are ritualistic activities employed to accompany the belief system. As we have seen in many cases religious activity or ritualistic activities can be seen in the mosques, many churches and I'm sure even cult groups. It is these activities that define religion not the beliefs that are adopted to build a religion. So, I am not involved in any form of institution or church group. I do not pray the same way every time, I do not praise the same way every time nor do I worship the same way every time. I do not adopt man made doctrine nor do I believe in going along with the theologies of religion. So in my mind and in my heart I am not in a religion. I am in a relationship that is entirely independant of any church body or religious sect anywhere. that's all I got to say. This thread is about finding hope in dark times in life...not about religion. I say we start up a different thread if we want to discuss religion -vs- relationship and get this thread back on topic....love and blessings

 

[Richard_oti]

(Jackie D;41939)
discuss religion -vs- relationship
Always a good topic

 

[Jackie D]

(Richard_oti;41942)
Always a good topic

I think so too...

 

[Pildit]

(Jackie D;41898)
no longer carrying around the burdens the world lays on us of how we should or should not be.
Isn't that exactly what God does?
I no longer have to hang my head in shame over sins of the past.
This depends on a lot of things of course but eventually most people stop hanging their heads in shame. Everyone screws up, apologise, sort it out within yourself and move on.
I am able to look at all of creation and know what it's purpose and benefits are.
Me too.
I get to live in peace, joy and hope knowing that in the end all the hardships of my life will be erased in a twinkling of an eye and I will spend eternity in everlasting joy
I don't know how much joy I'd be in, knowing that people I care about are in pain.
....these are the spirit and soul benefits of loving the God who created me.

Alright.
Well, I didn't say that to try to sway you to God through fear as that is not the doorway to heaven, it is through Christ and Christ is not about fear but defeating fear, sadness, regret, anger, pain, scars curse.....

Christ defeated all evil all sin and death...
But you see my point is, there is NO point in me believing just because someone said to me "hey look, if I'm right... you lose a lot here, so just play along anyway" - it's just living a lie, if you don't really believe - all through scare mongering and if infact there turns out not to be a God, well then I lied to myself and wasn't true to myself for most of my life... and then what kind of life did I have?

 

[Jackie D]

Originally Posted by Pildit

This depends on a lot of things of course but eventually most people stop hanging their heads in shame. Everyone screws up, apologise, sort it out within yourself and move on.
unfortunately without taking the doorway to Heaven, which is Christ...all those nice apologies, sorting it out and moving on add up to diddley in the end. There are plenty of people out there that think they deserve heaven because they try to be good people...but without belief they get the same as all those out there who could care less about doing good. It is a fact....sad but true.
I don't know how much joy I'd be in, knowing that people I care about are in pain.
everyone makes their own choices Pildit. And a person is capable of feeling sorrow for others lack of unbelief and still feel joy for the promise to be fulfilled in his/her own life. I sure am not going to let another's lack of belief in God's Glory stop me from living in it myself.
But you see my point is, there is NO point in me believing just because someone said to me "hey look, if I'm right... you lose a lot here, so just play along anyway" - it's just living a lie, if you don't really believe - all through scare mongering and if infact there turns out not to be a God, well then I lied to myself and wasn't true to myself for most of my life... and then what kind of life did I have?
well we agree. I wouldn't make a decision based on that either. It was simply a question. You are an intelligent woman, I am sure that you spend much time contemplating things. But I would never assume in any way shape or form that question as being a testimony of Christ. I don't know what kind of life you had. But I've noticed you spend quite a bit of time here....perhaps you would consider trying again and this time let it be God who leads you instead of people....You've misread me if you think I am trying the "scare mongering" on you. So my apologies if that is what you think I have tried to do because it was the furthest thing from my heart or mind. God is NOT the author of FEAR...

 

[Pildit]

(Jackie D;41964)
unfortunately without taking the doorway to Heaven, which is Christ...all those nice apologies, sorting it out and moving on add up to diddley in the end. There are plenty of people out there that think they deserve heaven because they try to be good people...but without belief they get the same as all those out there who could care less about doing good. It is a fact....sad but true.
What I was talking about here is the fact that you don't need to believe in order to stop hanging your head in shame for things you did in the past.When I was a Christian, I didn't believe it meant NOTHING for you to apologise and sort things out - of course you also need to believe, I do get that but your apologises don't go un-noticed. However I could be wrong, I've been told so many times now that I couldn't have possibly believed or been a Christian before... so yeah... moving on...
everyone makes their own choices Pildit. And a person is capable of feeling sorrow for others lack of unbelief and still feel joy for the promise to be fulfilled in my own life. I sure am not going to let another's lack of belief in God's Glory stop me from living in it myself.
Yes I realise that everyone makes their own choices, but that doesn't necessaily make them bad people and I cannot be happy knowing that people I care about are in pain.
well we agree. I wouldn't make a decision based on that either. It was simply a question. You are an intelligent woman, I am sure that you spend much time contemplating things. But I would never assume in any way shape or form that question as being a testimony of Christ. I don't know what kind of life you had. But I've noticed you spend quite a bit of time here....perhaps you would consider trying again and this time let it be God who leads you instead of people....You've misread me if you think I am trying the "scare mongering" on you. So my apologies if that is what you think I have tried to do because it was the furthest thing from my heart or mind. God is NOT the author of FEAR...

God IS involved in this. I ask him to reveal himself, to talk to me... to something that I know it's unmistakably him.This isn't just a person thing and you people here aren't the only ones I ask for help - although admittedly, I'm not exactly... asking a huge amount of people and bugging every Christian site out there either. Two places online only - one I already knew of from when I was a Christian and this one - which I spend a week looking for the best place to join and ask and this seemed to be it at the time.It's not you personally I think it's trying to scare monger me, it's just I hear that so often, its either that or straight "well if you don't believe, then you're going to hell" and it just really starts to get annoying because I know that, but it isn't a good reason for believing.

 

[Jackie D]

(Pildit;41965)
What I was talking about here is the fact that you don't need to believe in order to stop hanging your head in shame for things you did in the past.When I was a Christian, I didn't believe it meant NOTHING for you to apologise and sort things out - of course you also need to believe, I do get that but your apologises don't go un-noticed. However I could be wrong, I've been told so many times now that I couldn't have possibly believed or been a Christian before... so yeah... moving on...
no one should ever say that too you, for they do not know your heart and are not allowed to judge a persons soul.
Yes I realise that everyone makes their own choices, but that doesn't necessaily make them bad people and I cannot be happy knowing that people I care about are in pain.
you are right it doesn't make them bad people and I have a heart for all...I just can't forsake myself because of their choices...that's all I'm saying
God IS involved in this. I ask him to reveal himself, to talk to me... to something that I know it's unmistakably him.This isn't just a person thing and you people here aren't the only ones I ask for help - although admittedly, I'm not exactly... asking a huge amount of people and bugging every Christian site out there either. Two places online only - one I already knew of from when I was a Christian and this one - which I spend a week looking for the best place to join and ask and this seemed to be it at the time.
all I can do for you at this point Pildit, besides continue to talk to you and offer what I can and know, is keep you in deep prayer that the Lord somehow reveal Himself to you. I believe that it will happen...I have faith it will happen...You are right "God IS involved in this"...and I love Him so much for it...

It's not you personally I think it's trying to scare monger me, it's just I hear that so often, its either that or straight "well if you don't believe, then you're going to hell" and it just really starts to get annoying because I know that, but it isn't a good reason for believing.
I'm sure that it does...it is probably just as annoying for you to hear that as I used to hear for years before I finally was saved from the life of heavy drug addiction that I didn't love anyone because I kept doing drugs. It would be easy if things were that simple, they aren't and I hate when people put others in a box that way, shut the lid and tape it closed...but you know what I've come to believe? As long as there is breath, there is hope....bless you dear sister, in Christ.

 

[Thunder1]

Amiraear Thunder1: I have experienced some very sad and tragic things in my life, so it is not inexperience talking.

[/QUOTE]Thunder1:You are so blessed that you've got friends and family even though they are not next to you all the time, understandably. Take that gift from God, not everyone has those.

 

[Thunder1]

(Pildit;41897)
The vast majority of people in my life have let me down, all but two that I can think of right now and I just came through the worst 1-2 years of my life because of them.Of course when there are TOO many things, I feel REALLY bad. Like everyone else, just as I feel bad when people do let me down.
Thunder1: How do you cope with that? Where do you draw strenght and comfort in those times?

 

[Pildit]

(Thunder1;41970)
Thunder1: How do you cope with that? Where do you draw strenght and comfort in those times?
Depending on the time of course either with great difficulty or in the knowledge that there are a few people that haven't let me down and who I trust won't let me down. Sometimes a mixture of the two.

 

[Pildit]

(Jackie D;41966)
no one should ever say that too you, for they do not know your heart and are not allowed to judge a persons soul.
It happens, people assume things. It's annoying after a while but oh well.
you are right it doesn't make them bad people and I have a heart for all...I just can't forsake myself because of their choices...that's all I'm saying
That's fine, but really I cannot be everlastingly joyful about that. More likely, quite miserable.
all I can do for you at this point Pildit, besides continue to talk to you and offer what I can and know, is keep you in deep prayer that the Lord somehow reveal Himself to you. I believe that it will happen...I have faith it will happen...You are right "God IS involved in this"...and I love Him so much for it...

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me and for your prayers.
I'm sure that it does...it is probably just as annoying for you to hear that as I used to hear for years before I finally was saved from the life of heavy drug addiction that I didn't love anyone because I kept doing drugs. It would be easy if things were that simple, they aren't and I hate when people put others in a box that way, shut the lid and tape it closed...but you know what I've come to believe? As long as there is breath, there is hope....bless you dear sister, in Christ.
Exactly and thank you.

 

[Thunder1]

(Amira;41925)
Dear Jackie D,I don't know if there is some misunderstanding of terminology here, but I think OED defines what I mean by religion quite well.Therefore, if you believe in God, Christ and the Bible, isn't that a religion?Religion as an institute, such as a church, is a different matter of course.
Thunder1: Amira,most of the non believers wonder that,when we say we don't believe in religion. Why we say that... because there are so many 'dead' churches and many people who belong to those churches are not even believers and there are so many. When you are born again from the Spirit as the Bible says you can't even stand those religious rituals anymore. We want to break out of that 'system', Jesus came to set us free and belonging to church does not make you a Christian as you already know. It is personal relationship with Jesus Christ,your saviour that counts. I'm not saying that you are not to go to church, I'm saying find alive,spirit-filled fellowship, Christian church or group ,small or big. I understand the language difference when you say religion, you might think differently or meaning even same thing,some people do,but for us the word religion is something really negative, that's why wording personal relationship with Jesus Christ is the thing for us.

 

[Jackie D]

Quote:you are right it doesn't make them bad people and I have a heart for all...I just can't forsake myself because of their choices...that's all I'm saying That's fine, but really I cannot be everlastingly joyful about that. More likely, quite miserable.
A person is capable of having hope in everlasting joy and still feel sorrow for the lost. In fact having that joy helps to get us through the dark days that are seen and experienced here in this cold, cruel and complicated place.

 

[Richard_oti]

(Pildit)
What I was talking about here is the fact that you don't need to believe in order to stop hanging your head in shame for things you did in the past.
While I agree with you Pildit. I think there are some things that for some of us, we are just completely unable to allow ourselves to forgive ourselves. I know for me, it was within the first hour that I believed, that sweet release came upon me... (Pildit)
When I was a Christian, I didn't believe it meant NOTHING for you to apologise and sort things out - of course you also need to believe, I do get that but your apologises don't go un-noticed. However I could be wrong, I've been told so many times now that I couldn't have possibly believed or been a Christian before... so yeah... moving on...
I know what you mean... only too well. I have been told those same things many times. I also spent some time in a place which sounds not too unlike where you are.(Pildit)
Yes I realise that everyone makes their own choices, but that doesn't necessaily make them bad people and I cannot be happy knowing that people I care about are in pain.
I agree they are not necessarily 'bad', regardless of choices. And I fully understand what you mean with regard to being happy while others are in pain. It is a hard thing. For myself, I have found that I am able to help those I care about, and even those I meet upon the street through being 'happy'. That does not mean that I am not serious when necessary though.(Pildit)
God IS involved in this.
Agreed!(Pildit)
I ask him to reveal himself, to talk to me... to something that I know it's unmistakably him.
If you will allow me, I shall join in prayer to that effect Pildit.(Pildit)
It's not you personally I think it's trying to scare monger me, it's just I hear that so often, its either that or straight "well if you don't believe, then you're going to hell" and it just really starts to get annoying because I know that, but it isn't a good reason for believing.
Yes it does get annoying. And you are right, it isn't a good reason to believe. Almost makes one feel sorry for them though... if that if all they really know.May you be blessed Pilbit.In His love,Richard

 

[arniem]

(Franklin;41746)
Hope. What is hope anyway? If you think about it. I may start a thread on that
Good idea Franklin.We are told often in the Bible to lean heavily on Faith Hope and Love .We tend to give a lot of attention and study to Love and Faith but often leave Hope aside.It would be an interesting thread .Arnie

 

[Amira]

Dear Jackie D,
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, Religion is defined in dictionary.com as being a two phase thing. According to my understanding there is the belief system which we could say begins with my belief in God, Christ and the Holy Bible. Every difinition that I read regarding religion cannot equal religion unless there are ritualistic activities employed to accompany the belief system. As we have seen in many cases religious activity or ritualistic activities can be seen in the mosques, many churches and I'm sure even cult groups. It is these activities that define religion not the beliefs that are adopted to build a religion. So, I am not involved in any form of institution or church group. I do not pray the same way every time, I do not praise the same way every time nor do I worship the same way every time. I do not adopt man made doctrine nor do I believe in going along with the theologies of religion. So in my mind and in my heart I am not in a religion. I am in a relationship that is entirely independant of any church body or religious sect anywhere. that's all I got to say. This thread is about finding hope in dark times in life...not about religion. I say we start up a different thread if we want to discuss religion -vs- relationship and get this thread back on topic....love and blessings
I do not think you have to be a member of a church to have religion (in your case some form of Christianity). Secondly, if you pray, praise and worship is that not devotional?Anyway, the point was that I meant any such belief system by religion. I agree, the differences of interpretation are very relevant to this discussion. Only to clarify what I meant.