What is your take? Satan was the Religious Zealots of that time.

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MatthewG

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I just don’t trust people.

So why bother? Are you wanting to reconcile now?

I don’t know I havent even heard a sorry.

This is why I don’t trust people on the internet especially when they try to gaslight me like I’m some stupid person.

I rather just ignore you. It’s much better than being tricked or lied to or mocked again.
 
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Muna

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I just don’t trust people.

So why bother? Are you wanting to reconcile now?

I don’t know I have even heard a sorry.

This is why I don’t trust people on the internet especially when they try to gaslight me like I’m some stupid person.

I rather just ignore you. It’s much better than being tricked or lied to or mocked again.
I don't even know what I did to you.
 
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MatthewG

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That’s alright I don’t need to explain.

I just want you to know that you are ignore and so are many other people.

I hope the best for you but I just am gonna leave my decisions as they are.
 
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Muna

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That’s alright I don’t need to explain.

I just want you to know that you are ignore and so are many other people.

I hope the best for you but I just am gonna leave my decisions as they are.

I know you are ignoring me, and thats fine if you so choose.

Typo
 

MatthewG

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Topic:

Satan offers all the kingdoms to Yeshua.

(Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees, that would have given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them.)


The biblical verses that describe Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world are found in Matthew 4:8-10 and Luke 4:5-7. In these passages, Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, offering them to Jesus if he will worship Satan.
 

David Lamb

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Topic:

Satan offers all the kingdoms to Yeshua.

(Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees, that would have given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them.)


The biblical verses that describe Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world are found in Matthew 4:8-10 and Luke 4:5-7. In these passages, Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, offering them to Jesus if he will worship Satan.
So are you saying that the religious Jewish Pharisees were with Jesus in the wilderness and tempted Him there? How did they manage to take Him up a mountain so high that it gave a view of all the kingdoms of the world? And what do you make of a verse like this from Revelation, which equates the devil, Satan and the serpent?:

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Re 12:9 NKJV)

The serpent was the guise Satan used in the Garden of Eden, long before there were such people as Pharisees, or even Jews.
 

MatthewG

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So are you saying that the religious Jewish Pharisees were with Jesus in the wilderness and tempted Him there? How did they manage to take Him up a mountain so high that it gave a view of all the kingdoms of the world? And what do you make of a verse like this from Revelation, which equates the devil, Satan and the serpent?:

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Re 12:9 NKJV)

The serpent was the guise Satan used in the Garden of Eden, long before there were such people as Pharisees, or even Jews.
Hello David Lamb,

Just musings. Here are some of the comments I’ve already made.


Hi Bdavidc,

I'm simply exploring conceptual possibilities. For instance, Ozzy Osbourne was once regarded as the "God of Rock and Roll"—a title that reflected the cultural reverence surrounding his influence.

Similarly, the Pharisees could be seen as emblematic of spiritual authority (god of this world (their land in that time) in their era. Over time, their devotion appeared to shift from the divine to the Law itself, which became the central focus of their worship.

Given these historical examples of symbolic deification, it's worth asking: why shouldn't such a possibility be considered?

Hello VIJ,

You know, I think a lot of the confusion comes from how people picture Satan—as this cartoonish guy with horns and a pitchfork, running around trying to steal souls from God. But I see it differently.

To me, the bigger issue was how far Israel had drifted from God’s heart. They lost sight of key things like mercy, justice, and faithfulness. It’s almost like they ended up worshiping the Mosaic Law itself rather than the God behind it—which is pretty wild when you really think about it.

So when Jesus encountered “Satan,” whether it was a spiritual moment or something more visible, I tend to think He was being confronted with the religious leaders of His day. They were kind of seen as the “gods” of that world, especially after that 400-year gap between Malachi and the birth of Jesus, when the Word of God finally came through again.

And the part about offering Jesus all the “kingdoms of the world”? I’ve always found that fascinating. Even though the 12 tribes were still showing up once a year for sacrifices, the kingdom was divided in two—so there’s a lot to consider in that, too.

Honestly, it’s kind of mind-blowing to think about how it all fits together. So many layers, right?

He could have become their king, if Jesus would have just bowed and did what they had said.
 

MatthewG

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NIS = Not In Scripture :crossword:
Hello Stumpmaster,

May I pose a question: While Scripture speaks clearly of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ, is it accurate to say that these are not confined solely to the text itself?

In my view, the Spirit of Christ is something one embodies and lives by—it’s a living, active presence not limited to the written word. Though the Bible offers guidance and insight, the Spirit transcends its pages.

Do you believe it’s meaningful to engage both the Spirit and Scripture together?
 
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David Lamb

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Hello David Lamb,

Just musings. Here are some of the comments I’ve already made.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post , particularly the words, "Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees," as stating things you believed to be true. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
 

MatthewG

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Sorry, I misunderstood your post , particularly the words, "Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees," as stating things you believed to be true. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
David Lamb,

Hope my comments made some sense and added something helpful.

You know, just like Peter was called “Satan” when he had his mind set on human concerns instead of God's, I think the religious leaders who handed Jesus over could also be viewed in a similar light.

Personally, I believe Satan was dealt with in the book of Revelation. So in my understanding, that era has ended—and I don’t think Satan is actively around today.

Of course, I’ve shared that view before and some folks say I sound like a kook—and hey, maybe I am! But I’m okay with that.
 

MatthewG

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2 Corinthians 11:14 reminds us, “But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”

This passage can be reflected upon in the context of the religious leadership of Jesus' time. These leaders, perceived as spiritual authorities, often presented themselves as beacons of truth—yet, in practice, some acted more as gatekeepers than guides, ultimately positioning themselves as if they were equal with God.

It’s sobering to consider that they handed over the very Light of all mankind—Jesus—and continued on with their way of life, seemingly unmoved. Jesus alluded to this reality in the Parable of the Evil Farmers, foretelling the judgment that awaited those who rejected and mistreated God’s messengers.

Revelation speaks of the final defeat of Satan and the end of Hades, marking the culmination of divine justice. Still, even after Christ's ascension, many continued traditional temple practices, including annual sacrifices. Paul, recognizing the tension between the old and new covenant, adapted his approach—becoming “as one under the law” when ministering to those still bound to it, and “as one not under the law” with those who embraced freedom through Christ.

All of these events and teachings—woven together throughout Scripture—offer us a divinely inspired narrative. The Bible remains a gift, given to guide, challenge, and draw us closer to God’s heart.
 

Brakelite

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Hello VIJ,

You know, I think a lot of the confusion comes from how people picture Satan—as this cartoonish guy with horns and a pitchfork, running around trying to steal souls from God. But I see it differently.

To me, the bigger issue was how far Israel had drifted from God’s heart. They lost sight of key things like mercy, justice, and faithfulness. It’s almost like they ended up worshiping the Mosaic Law itself rather than the God behind it—which is pretty wild when you really think about it.

So when Jesus encountered “Satan,” whether it was a spiritual moment or something more visible, I tend to think He was being confronted with the religious leaders of His day. They were kind of seen as the “gods” of that world, especially after that 400-year gap between Malachi and the birth of Jesus, when the Word of God finally came through again.

And the part about offering Jesus all the “kingdoms of the world”? I’ve always found that fascinating. Even though the 12 tribes were still showing up once a year for sacrifices, the kingdom was divided in two—so there’s a lot to consider in that, too.

Honestly, it’s kind of mind-blowing to think about how it all fits together. So many layers, right?

He could have become their king, if Jesus would have just bowed and did what they had said.
Jesus did not see Pharisees and scribes falling like lightening from heaven.
 
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MatthewG

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Because it's a blatant expression of textual criticism and unbelief.

Jesus did not see Pharisees and scribes falling like lightening from heaven.


Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, @Brakelite! I really appreciate the time you put into it. Totally get that not everyone will see the connection right away—and that’s okay too.

Is there anything wrong with exploring these things though? Are they really a danger?

What is Textual criticism? And are we suppose to try to go by the Spirit and see what the scripture is saying sometimes?
 

Behold

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2 Corinthians 11:14 reminds us, “But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”

Paul told you that if you dont put on the "Armor of God" that Satan is going to decieve you or worse.

He'll have you believing that he has no power, and in fact, is not any trouble at all.
 

MatthewG

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From Microsoft Co-Pilot, Microsoft Copilot: Your AI companion

What is Textual criticism? And are we suppose to try to go by the Spirit and see what the scripture is saying sometimes?

Great questions—and I love how open-minded and curious you're being here. Exploring these topics isn’t dangerous at all when done with humility and a desire for truth. In fact, asking questions and digging deeper is often how spiritual growth happens.

What is Textual Criticism? Textual criticism is the scholarly process of examining ancient manuscripts to reconstruct the original wording of a text as accurately as possible. Since we don’t have the original autographs of biblical books, scholars compare thousands of copies—some with slight differences—to determine what the original likely said. It’s not about doubting Scripture, but about honoring it by seeking the most faithful version possible2.

Here’s a quick breakdown:

  • It looks at variants (differences) between manuscripts.
  • Uses both external evidence (age, location, manuscript family) and internal evidence (style, grammar, context).
  • Helps ensure that what we read today reflects what the biblical authors originally wrote3.
Going by the Spirit Absolutely—reading Scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit is essential. Textual criticism helps us understand the words, but the Spirit helps us grasp the meaning. The two aren’t in conflict—they complement each other beautifully. The Spirit brings life to the text, helping us discern truth, conviction, and encouragement in ways that go beyond academic study.

So no, exploring these things isn’t dangerous—it’s part of the journey. And when we approach Scripture with both reverence and curiosity, we open ourselves to deeper understanding and transformation.
 

MatthewG

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Paul told you that if you dont put on the "Armor of God" that Satan is going to decieve you or worse.

He'll have you believing that he has no power, and in fact, is not any trouble at all.

Hello Behold,

Paul never told me anything really. He told people he wrote to concerning those things.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Jesus explicitly referred to the Pharisees as "children of the devil" , but this was not because they were Satan himself, but rather because of their hypocrisy, legalism, and rejection of Jesus as the Messiah.
Good point regarding ‘children of the devil” but this was not because they were satan himself…’ yet I don’t think that proves satan or the devil as some red devil with horns and a pitch fork. My husband suggests that Jesus temptation in the wilderness was with his fleshPhilippians 2:7-8 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
…tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. We have to remember when Peter was rebuked and told “get behind me Satan” when Jesus said he (the spirit tempting Peter) desired not the things of God when Peter tried to stop Jesus from going. To me it’s the spirit of the flesh which also includes those children of it, the religious leaders who we can’t lie or deny they did want Jesus to bow and worship them. To bow and submit to their authority. So much so this spirit of antichrist was in them as they mocked Jesus on the cross saying “He saved others let Him come down and save Himself. If He be the King of the Jews.”

I agree with you that Peter was not satan when Jesus said “get behind Me satan” BUT it was the spirit within Peter warring against Christ being formed in where Christ (Life)overcomes the spirit of death. Same as the religious leaders who lusted to have Him killed.



The Pharisees were a Jewish religious group during the time of Jesus, and while they opposed Jesus, they were not Satan
But they did the work of the spirit of the antichrist, the spirit of disobedience that worked in them. If the Holy Spirit is within us and we are the Children of God…no that doesn’t make us God. (Imo). Same as the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience, does not make them satan but those children do pressure and tempt as Jesus was tempted in the wilderness to “bow” “toss yourself down from the greatest height” as they mocked and tempted Him “come down off that crucifix” …prove (show) you are king of the Jews. And He didn’t. His proof was submitting to His Father, knowing all power and authority had been given unto Him of His Father.
The idea that they would have "given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them" is not supported by the biblical accounts, which portray the Pharisees as resistant to Jesus' teachings and unwilling to accept him as the Messiah.
Yes it is….
Genesis 37:5-24 ESV
Now Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers they hated him even more. [6] He said to them, "Hear this dream that I have dreamed: [7] Behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and behold, my sheaf arose and stood upright. And behold, your sheaves gathered around it and bowed down to my sheaf." [8] His brothers said to him, "Are you indeed to reign over us? Or are you indeed to rule over us?" So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words. [9] Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." [10] But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?" [11] And his brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind. [12] Now his brothers went to pasture their father's flock near Shechem. [13] And Israel said to Joseph, "Are not your brothers pasturing the flock at Shechem? Come, I will send you to them." And he said to him, "Here I am." [14] So he said to him, "Go now, see if it is well with your brothers and with the flock, and bring me word." So he sent him from the Valley of Hebron, and he came to Shechem. [15] And a man found him wandering in the fields. And the man asked him, "What are you seeking?" [16] "I am seeking my brothers," he said. "Tell me, please, where they are pasturing the flock." [17] And the man said, "They have gone away, for I heard them say, 'Let us go to Dothan.'" So Joseph went after his brothers and found them at Dothan. [18] They saw him from afar, and before he came near to them they conspired against him to kill him. [19] They said to one another, "Here comes this dreamer. [20] Come now, let us kill him and throw him into one of the pits. Then we will say that a fierce animal has devoured him, and we will see what will become of his dreams." [21] But when Reuben heard it, he rescued him out of their hands, saying, "Let us not take his life." [22] And Reuben said to them, "Shed no blood; throw him into this pit here in the wilderness, but do not lay a hand on him"-that he might rescue him out of their hand to restore him to his father. [23] So when Joseph came to his brothers, they stripped him of his robe, the robe of many colors that he wore. [24] And they took him and threw him into a pit. The pit was empty; there was no water in it.
 
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Behold

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Paul never told me anything really.


Well, when you dont study his Doctrine, He's not going to show you anything, .

See how that works?

You are stuck in various cult theologies, like "no hell" , "no devil", and Preterism... so, its obvious that you are not reading Paul's Epistles.

You are one of those "itching ears"....show me something new...... who is described in Hebrews 13:9