What is your take? Satan was the Religious Zealots of that time.

[MatthewG]

Some critics prefer the incontinence of extrabiblical alignments. That's on them. Of course there are unequally yoked marriages where one partner becomes a believer and the other doesn't, but the point that incompatibilities exist is well made.

Stumpmaster,

Thank you for just ignoring the question all together. Appreciate that.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont get how people can just use the bible without the Spirit...


Many people become so lazy in actually reading their bible but they can remember what they learned from some evangelical person, or tactics.

 

[MatthewG]

Collection of musings all hopefully by the spirit.

Everyone must challenge their own selves concluding them.

If you aren’t looking and reading your Bible then you’re probably not gonna get any of these things or even compare them.

Collection of the thoughts and musings that have come about within this thread.

If anyone is curious to know what they may be here is a collection of them.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Stumpmaster,

Thank you for just ignoring the question all together. Appreciate that.

Notice I don't ignore Scriptural truth when I answer sea lions.

 

[MatthewG]

Notice I don't ignore Scriptural truth when I answer sea lions.

Hello Stumpmaster,

Please do not badger me. Thank you!

 

[soberxp]

Satan offers all the kingdoms to Yeshua.

(Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees, that would have given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them.)


The biblical verses that describe Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world are found in Matthew 4:8-10 and Luke 4:5-7. In these passages, Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, offering them to Jesus if he will worship Satan.


Musings so far: What is your take? Satan was the Religious Zealots of that time. (collection of quotes of musings concerning the topic for your advantage.)

Satan's delusion.

.Only the Kingdom of God can stand, Satan's kingdom will be, the people will attack the people, the kingdom will attack the kingdom, such a kingdom in the eyes of Jesus has no value.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't even know what I did to you.

friend its the victim card at work .
You aint done anything wrong . people know how to manipulate by using emotions and hurt feelings
and play the victim to make the other seem as though they are the oppresor .
We live not by emotions , by feelings
We speak truth and we correct error . We do as we do for the sakes of the others .
And in all that we do Let it HONOR and GLORIFY HE WHO has saved us .
And allowing one to remain in sin and error
Is only a co helper to their destruction
AND it darn sure dont glorify and honor THE HOLY GOD and FATHER of our LORD and SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST .
The victim card was also sold to the churches
under the banner of the judge not correct not . Dont say anything that might offend .
But what they should have said was SHUT UP with correction and truth that exposes our sins and the sins of others .
Because that IS exactly what its all about .
And now it even does all to silence the one true gospel
under the same mindset ,
JUDGE NOT it says , OFFEND not it says
as it even silences NOW the mouths of those who do expose the false religoins
AND DO point ONLY to CHRIST .
WE aint gonna live by the victim card . We gonna live BY and FOR CHRIST JESUS . doing all
that really CAN HELP and not harm the peoples .

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the conversation. I recognize that some of the topics may feel unfamiliar or even unconventional, especially for those rooted in traditional teachings. Still, I believe that engaging with Scripture requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit—it’s not simply about study but about spiritual discernment and relationship.

For those interested in deeper exploration, the Thompson Chain-Reference Bible is a valuable resource. It offers an extensive thematic approach to Scripture, connecting passages from the Old Testament through to the Apostolic writings, making it a helpful tool for anyone pursuing a fuller understanding of biblical context.

I also want to thank those who may challenge or question the ideas shared here—true discernment comes through examining the Word directly and allowing the Spirit of Christ to illuminate its meaning. To that end, I encourage others to lay aside the weight of traditions or inherited teachings and approach the Bible with a fresh, honest heart. If you’re searching for truth, I wish you well on your journey.

As Yeshua said, “Seek first the Kingdom of God.” When we place our faith in the risen Lord, the Holy Spirit is given—and it is through that Spirit that we are led into deeper truth, or at least as close to it as we can come this side of heaven.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How it might make that a strawman would be quoting me on one thing I have said, (even if you are in agreement with me on it as you were) but framing your next response as follows

(( YET I DON'T THINK THAT PROVES )) satan or the devil as some red devil with horns and a pitch fork.

See what I mean? I was not attempting to prove such a thing.

Even if you were serious about it (as you said you were) as far as how you might have imagined it, you are answering me (( AS IF )) I too have concluded this. Or what you yourself are describing in the whole red devil with a pitchfork thing. ((AS IF )) I am the one attempting to prove this cartoon charicature (from some sort of Tom and Jerry's episode we might have watched as a children?) which (obviously) you disagree with. Raising an argument thats not there to argue the case to the contrary.

And I can't really argue with you concerning it because I agree that ofcourse, that charicature is untrue.

That sounds complicated to me. To clarify…when someone says that is a strawman to me, then that means they are reply that I have assumed what they believe?

To answer your question, I would call Satan a spirit, he is shown entering a person ( as he entered into Judas) but there are many spirits.

The prince of the power of the air is a spirit

Ephes 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Who is also called the god of this world

2 Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There is children of the devil (and the spirit that works in the same) and the children of God and the Spirit that is from God that works in those that belong to Him.

The Spirit of God works in us

I agree. I’m not sure what you mean by there are many spirits. I do acknowledge there are many spirits but my understanding is they (many spirits) are all of one spirit which is the spirit not given of God, but the spirit the world gives.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

Exactly. That was my point in asking you if the spirit in the children of disobedience is the spirit of the devil. I take that to mean it’s not the person who is the devil, but that spirit that works in them to bring forth sin unto death?

Unlike Gods Spirit which brings forth obedience unto righteousness?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus,

There seems to be some type of spirit, perhaps the Spirit of the Antichrist, but all the while it seems them also being called "children of the devil" would just co-relate as them being Satan.

what does satan mean in greek?


In Greek, the word Satan is transliterated as Σατανᾶς (Satanas), and it carries the meaning of “adversary” or “accuser”2.
Here’s a quick breakdown:

• Origin: Though the Greek term is Satanas, it actually comes from the Hebrew word śāṭān, which also means “adversary” or “one who opposes.”
• Biblical Usage: In the New Testament, Satanas is used to describe a personal, supernatural being who opposes God, tempts believers, and is ultimately defeated in Revelation.
• Associated Terms: The Greek word diabolos (διάβολος), meaning “slanderer” or “accuser,” is often used interchangeably with Satanas and is the root of the English word “devil”3.

So when you see “Satan” in the Greek New Testament, it’s not just a name—it’s a title that reflects his role as the opposer of God’s purposes.

When I think of adversary …the most eye opening verse in my opinion is
2 Timothy 2:25-26 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

It’s a scary thought. I love the passage where Paul writes to the Corinthians whom are accusing Paul of being a reprobate, as one who fails. They seek proof that Christ speaks in Paul. To me Christ speaks plainly in Paul by saying “we will be weak, that you be made strong. This we pray, even for your perfecting …do what is right.”

I do believe it’s a perfect example of opposing yourself. Those brothers and Paul are for them (the Corinthians) and their completion, Christ calling them to acknowledgment of the truth. Paul says 2 Corinthians 13:6-8 But I trust (Him who has promised and will perform it. Giving sight to the blind) that you shall know that we are not reprobates. [7] Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

As in the above passage from Paul’s urging to the Corinthians “if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth”

It’s so significant to me that they don’t acknowledge Paul as a brother but instead as a reprobate. “that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”

How true is 1 John 3:12-18 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. [13] Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. [14] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. [15] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. [16] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 2 Corinthians 13:9-10 For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

[17] But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? [18] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

Point of sharing all that …it’s the corinthians I think that oppose themselves. It’s not Paul they harm by opposing Paul, asking for proof Christ speaks in him. It’s themselves they harm. scary…

I’m sorry for the long post. I don’t know how to reduce it to shorter when it’s significant to me.

 

[MatthewG]

@VictoryinJesus

Key Themes from Your Reflection​

• Spiritual Adversary & Self-Opposition
  • 2 Timothy 2:25–26 shows that those who “oppose themselves” may be trapped by the adversary and only freed through repentance and truth.
  • Paul urges gentle correction and recognizes that true healing comes from acknowledgment, not condemnation.
• Paul & the Corinthians
  • The Corinthians question Paul’s authenticity, labeling him a reprobate. Yet Paul expresses humility: “We are weak, that you be made strong”—revealing Christ working through his vulnerability.
  • Their opposition to Paul harms themselves, not him, because they resist the truth God wants to reveal to them.
• Love vs. Hatred (1 John 3:12–18)
  • Hatred is equated with spiritual death and murder—Cain as an example.
  • True spiritual life is marked by loving our brothers not just in word, but in action.
• Final Encouragement
  • Paul’s longing is for their edification, not destruction. His weakness is for their perfection and strength.
  • The adversary preys on self-deception, but love, humility, and truth are the way out.

I believe it's entirely possible for individuals to be in opposition to themselves. As Scripture reminds us in Romans 8:31, "If God is for us, who can be against us?"—the sobering reality is that sometimes the greatest opposition comes from within.

In the time of Jesus, His ministry took place among a Jewish audience, which holds particular significance. Many of the religious leaders of that era opposed Him, clinging to the Law as their highest authority and, in doing so, effectively placing it above God Himself. This resistance to Christ's message and presence could be considered antithetical to the Spirit He represented.

Freedom of choice has always been foundational—from Adam and Eve in the garden to the twelve tribes, and even to Satan’s rebellion. That same freedom remains today: each person is accountable for how they choose to live—whether by self, by faith in Christ, or in continued unbelief.

In today's world, while some may assume Christians face widespread hostility, I tend to believe most people are simply indifferent. If someone seeks opposition purely for validation or attention, it misses the heart of the Spirit. Sharing faith should never be coercive; it must come from a place of love, and individuals must make their own decisions from the heart.

The religious zealots of Jesus' time didn’t just resist His teachings—they opposed the very presence of God among them in the person of Yeshua. Their opposition was a choice, and in making that choice, they aligned themselves against truth, echoing the adversarial nature of spiritual rebellion.

This perspective wasn’t formed overnight—it comes from prayerful reflection and study. I share it not to debate, but to express what I’ve come to understand over time.

 

[Muna]

That sounds complicated to me. To clarify…when someone says that is a strawman to me, then that means they are reply that I have assumed what they believe?

Its really simple, that second reply makes it appear as if I myself was making the argument that you introduce (when I was not). And so in that way is the "setting up" a stawman/argument created by you in order to blow it down there after. Some people do this dishonestly in attempt to take a kind of victory that lives as much in in their own head as the argument itself. That might be easier to understand. Not that you were doing that dishonestly with an intent, some people just do it without thinking.

Remembering our former discussion and how that sprang out of much the same, I wanted to catch it before it took off in the direction again.

I agree. I’m not sure what you mean by there are many spirits. I do acknowledge there are many spirits but my understanding is they (many spirits) are all of one spirit which is the spirit not given of God, but the spirit the world gives.

The flesh has a spirit

Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

The physical body itself without the spirit is dead (physically so) and the living man (with his own spirit) who is without the Spirit of Christ is both spiritually dead (and none of his).

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

And here

In 1Kings 22:23 when the LORD put a lying spirit (singular) in the mouth of these thy prophets (plural) shows us that a single lying spirit can reside in many prophets (which each have their own spirits).

And so there can be many false prophets (operating as one under the influence of a lying spirit) and so as John could also say,

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

On the otherhand scripture also shows us Mary called Magdalene in whom were evil spirits, also called devils

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils.

As with Legion

Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

Exactly. That was my point in asking you if the spirit in the children of disobedience is the spirit of the devil. I take that to mean it’s not the person who is the devil, but that spirit that works in them to bring forth sin unto death?

Unlike Gods Spirit which brings forth obedience unto righteousness?

John puts it this way

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


I think you are referring to Romans 7:5

It says,

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (See Romans 8:9 in contrast)

And in contrast to the above it says here

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?
God forbid.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Edit: typo, simple, not simply

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hello Stumpmaster,

Please do not badger me. Thank you!

Not my style, but using the Sword of the Spirit is 24/7

 

[MatthewG]

Not my style, but using the Sword of the Spirit is 24/7

View attachment 66768

Thank you for sharing, Stumpmaster.

 

[MatthewG]

Still looking for others who may have anything to say concerning this topic. It may be played out to this point either way thank you to everyone who has decided to take time and share.

What is your take? Satan was the Religious Zealots of that time.

Hello @Behold, The Bible clearly tells us that Hades and Satan are ultimately done away with, so I’m honestly not sure why there’s still such a big fuss over it. I personally believe that part of the story has already been wrapped up—so why keep stressing about it? It seems like you're making...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its really simple, that second reply makes it appear as if I myself was making the argument that you introduce (when I was not). And so in that way is the "setting up" a stawman/argument created by you in order to blow it down there after. Some people do this dishonestly in attempt to take a kind of victory that lives as much in in their own head as the argument itself. That might be easier to understand. Not that you were doing that dishonestly with an intent, some people just do it without thinking.

Remembering our former discussion and how that sprang out of much the same, I wanted to catch it before it took off in the direction again.

Thank you for clarifying. I’ll still probably do it again if we have more conversations. Remind me when I do start to go there again. I’m moving on from it because it’s still not clear to me. I think in terms of when we use deflection. That I understand better.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The flesh has a spirit

Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

The physical body itself without the spirit is dead (physically so) and the living man (with his own spirit) who is without the Spirit of Christ is both spiritually dead (and none of his).

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

And here

In 1Kings 22:23 when the LORD put a lying spirit (singular) in the mouth of these thy prophets (plural) shows us that a single lying spirit can reside in many prophets (which each have their own spirits).

And so there can be many false prophets (operating as one under the influence of a lying spirit) and so as John could also say,

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

On the otherhand scripture also shows us Mary called Magdalene in whom were evil spirits, also called devils

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils.

As with Legion

Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

That is all helpful. I do have question(s). You said the flesh has a spirit. I agree. But now I’m considering not all flesh is the same. There is the glory of one, and Glory of the other. There is terrestrial and celestial. This is the way my mind works, which people have warned takes verses out of context and attribute them to areas they have nothing to do with. So here we go, When all flesh is not the same the earthly flesh’s glory (Imo) is that which has no glory in respect of that which exceeds in Glory (the celestial). For example the first man Adam(earthly), the last Man Christ (heavenly) exceeds in Glory being not from beneath as Adam (earthly) but the last man Christ (heavenly) is from above. Same with if Moses had glory, which glory was to be done away with …so much more that which remains (Christ) exceeds in Glory.

Points is…you don’t have to respond to each one. The point is I’m wondering when you quoted all flesh has a spirit ….with the verse regarding the Father of spirits …what of “Your father is the devil?” Or the spirit the world gave unto you of fear unto bondage again…the spirit God did not give unto you but the World gave unto you which is bondage. God gives unto you the spirit of peace, of love and a sound mind. So it is God is the father of all (flesh) spirits? Or the living God is the father of that spirit of (His Son) which He gave unto you, which is Life.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Love this verse. No doubt I can look back and see the fruit I had in those things I am now ashamed of. For the end of those things proved to be death. As a mother of two daughters, and five grandchildren I have seen a distressing harvest of death sown. The only Hope is let God be true. I sure Hope with God I’m sowing better things, which ends(continues) with Life.

 

[Augustin56]

Silly.

 

[Muna]

That is all helpful. I do have question(s). You said the flesh has a spirit. I agree. But now I’m considering not all flesh is the same. There is the glory of one, and Glory of the other. There is terrestrial and celestial. This is the way my mind works, which people have warned takes verses out of context and attribute them to areas they have nothing to do with. So here we go, When all flesh is not the same the earthly flesh’s glory (Imo) is that which has no glory in respect of that which exceeds in Glory (the celestial). For example the first man Adam(earthly), the last Man Christ (heavenly) exceeds in Glory being not from beneath as Adam (earthly) but the last man Christ (heavenly) is from above. Same with if Moses had glory, which glory was to be done away with …so much more that which remains (Christ) exceeds in Glory.

Points is…you don’t have to respond to each one. The point is I’m wondering when you quoted all flesh has a spirit ….with the verse regarding the Father of spirits …what of “Your father is the devil?” Or the spirit the world gave unto you of fear unto bondage again…the spirit God did not give unto you but the World gave unto you which is bondage. God gives unto you the spirit of peace, of love and a sound mind. So it is God is the father of all (flesh) spirits? Or the living God is the father of that spirit of (His Son) which He gave unto you, which is Life.

Love this verse. No doubt I can look back and see the fruit I had in those things I am now ashamed of. For the end of those things proved to be death. As a mother of two daughters, and five grandchildren I have seen a distressing harvest of death sown. The only Hope is let God be true. I sure Hope with God I’m sowing better things, which ends(continues) with Life.

You asked me to clarify many spirits and I simply provided you some examples from the scriptures. Certainly not all of them. And you probably have alot of other questions that will spring up from every answer provided to us out of the scriptures, but I would encourage you to search those out for yourself.

 

[MatthewG]

Silly.

Is it though? Why?

The Religious Zealots were actively opposed to God, especially even Jesus.

What's so wrong with seeing them as Satan, and in revelation Satan had become done away with.