What makes a doctrine false?

[quietthinker]

For example:

Imagine someone is deceived into believing that universalism is true. Instead of taking seriously the many warnings about making their calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10), they live however they want, assuming they will still be saved when Christ returns.

This false doctrine has deceived them and robbed them of salvation, for they do not truly know God or His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, what does Jesus say about those who lead others away from the truth?

View attachment 75324
Powerful imagery!

To be clear, God has reconciled all mankind to himself (forgiven all their sins) but not all want reconciliation with God.
God has removed any and all condemnation humanity has been saddled with through Adam but many do not care for the company of God, his character or his methods... or his declared view of them as forgiven....the Good News.
They justify themselves and their ideas....having believed and embraced The Lie. They too will perish along with the Devil and his angels

 

[Hiddenthings]

To be clear, God has reconciled all mankind to himself (forgiven all their sins) but not all want reconciliation with God.
God has removed any and all condemnation humanity has been saddled with through Adam but many do not care for the company of God, his character or his methods... or his declared view of them as forgiven....the Good News.
They justify themselves and their ideas....having believed and embraced The Lie. They too will perish along with the Devil and his angels

I’m glad you used the word perish, it highlights an important truth that Christianity has yet to embrace

 

[rvmb]

Well, if you didn’t address the actual topic and instead introduced something outside the context of this discussion, I can only conclude that you are talking to yourself.

#555 gives the answer, and both Peter and Paul (and I) are in agreement on it.

It seems you cannot be persuaded by either of them.

Please advise how to bring up #555

 

[complete]

Good post, thanks.

The bad works (wood, hay, stubble) will burn up; but the good works will be rewarded.
And even those with no good works will be saved. (1 Corinthians 3:12-15)

'But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies
by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.'
(Rom 8:11)

Hello @St. SteVen.

We know from Romans chapter eight, that the believer does not come into condemnation, for his sins have been forgiven him, and that he has passed from death into life, in Christ Jesus, His risen and glorified, Saviour, Lord and Head. What will be judged is his manner of life and witness, and in regard to that there is either reward or loss, as your reference to 1 Corinthians 3 shows. The gift of life is not earned but received with grateful thanks by the believer in Christ Jesus.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe i

'As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus,
when I went into Macedonia,
that thou mightest charge some
that they teach no other doctrine,
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies,
which minister questions,
rather than godly edifying which is in faith:
so do.'
(1Tim. 1:3-4)

Hello @St. SteVen,

Paul told Timothy to abide at Ephesus, while he went into Macedonia, in order that He may ensure that no other doctrine, other than that preached by Paul, was taught: and in 2 Timothy 1:13, he urged to, 'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.' Paul was chosen by the risen Christ as the Apostle to the Gentiles, and he therefore taught what the risen Lord had sent him to teach. No other doctrine was to be given other than that which Paul had received by divine authority.

2 Timothy was written while Paul was, 'The Lord's Prisoner', following the revelation God had given to him concerning the church which is the Body of Christ. This doctrine was given exclusively to Paul, and is made known in the letters to the Ephesians and Colossians, Philippians, 2 Timothy and Titus. These contain the form of sound words which Paul himself had received from the risen Christ, and administered faithfully. This is the doctrine of God that is applicable to us in this day who have received the truth concerning The Church which is The Body of Christ, of which He is the Head.

May His Name be praised!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[St. SteVen]

Paul was chosen by the risen Christ as the Apostle to the Gentiles, and he therefore taught what the risen Lord had sent him to teach. No other doctrine was to be given other than that which Paul had received by divine authority.

I imagine the same was true of each of the Apostles.
Each one taught the doctrine that they had received.
The Apostle Peter recognized that what Paul was teaching differed from others.
Thus confirming the fact.

2 Peter 3:16 NIV
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Little know fact about Apollos.

Some quick Wiki research indicates that he knew only of the Baptism of John. (initially) Acts 18:24-26 NIV Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Hiddenthings]

2 Peter 3:16 NIV
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Great verse!

‘Things hard to be understood’ This reminds me of all the times I've ask you and @quietthinker to study and analyze Scripture carefully so that its true meaning can be discerned. Likewise, Paul urged Timothy to ‘rightly divide the word of truth’ (2 Tim. 2:15), because sound doctrine shapes sound thinking, and sound thinking leads to right action (1 Tim. 4:15–16).

Peter & Paul again agree.

 

[Hiddenthings]

God has removed any and all condemnation humanity has been saddled with through Adam but many do not care for the company of God, his character or his methods... or his declared view of them as forgiven....the Good News.

I find your teaching almost admirable, as if you’re taking some kind of high moral ground, but we both know that God’s righteousness is not the same as human morality.

Paul teaches you that only those in Christ are no longer condemned.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:1.

The point he is making is simply spelled out in Romans 6 & 7 and the means by which a person enters Christ is clearly stated.

But what happens to those who are not in Christ Jesus?

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him Ro 8:8–9.

Quiet, if a person is in the flesh and does not belong to God & Christ what is their end?

Answer: They are subject to the condemnation of death and decay no different to the animals that perish.

 

[quietthinker]

I find your teaching almost admirable, as if you’re taking some kind of high moral ground, but we both know that God’s righteousness is not the same as human morality.

Paul teaches you that only those in Christ are no longer condemned.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:1.

The point he is making is simply spelled out in Romans 6 & 7 and the means by which a person enters Christ is clearly stated.

But what happens to those who are not in Christ Jesus?

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him Ro 8:8–9.

Quiet, if a person is in the flesh and does not belong to God & Christ what is their end?

Answer: They are subject to the condemnation of death and decay no different to the animals that perish.

How God perceives people and how people perceive themselves are two different things.

A varnish peeling, abandoned, cracked and broken stringed Stradivarius is still a Stradivarius with great value.
A fallen, broken, rebellious human being is still of great value even when that person sees themselves as useless, hopeless and stuffed.
God sees us as his precious children even when we don't. He came and sojourned as one of us so we could understand this value. Even when we murdered him in our holier-than-thou rage he had no scathing rebuke.

A spiritual man recognises this, a fleshly man doesn't
A fleshly man's focus is his piety, ie what he must do and not do, living in that space with plenty of advice re what others must do. A spiritual man's focus is on God's kindness and lives in that space. He has good news to share and advice is reserved for when it is solicited.

 

[rockytopva]

What makes a doctrine false? How about when the Christ is obviously not formed in the spirit....

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. - Galatians 4:19

Especially when its all about... Titles... Name tags... Book sales... Positions... Million dollar homes... Private jets... Luxury lots...

Example... I am the great profit (oops! I meant prophet) Rockytopva! I heal the sick! Raise the dead! And cast out evil spirits! Get into the $1,000 a month club so you can help me along!

 

[rockytopva]

What makes a doctrine false? How about when the Christ is obviously not formed in the spirit....

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. - Galatians 4:19

Especially when its all about... Titles... Name tags... Book sales... Positions... Million dollar homes... Private jets... Luxury lots...

Example... I am the great profit (oops! I meant prophet) Rockytopva! I heal the sick! Raise the dead! And cast out evil spirits! Get into the $1,000 a month club so you can help me along!

Christianity these days... My gosh beware of the personal pronouns!

 

[Hiddenthings]

How God perceives people and how people perceive themselves are two different things.

A varnish peeling, abandoned, cracked and broken stringed Stradivarius is still a Stradivarius with great value.
A fallen, broken, rebellious human being is still of great value even when that person sees themselves as useless, hopeless and stuffed.
God sees us as his precious children even when we don't. He came and sojourned as one of us so we could understand this value. Even when we murdered him in our holier-than-thou rage he had no scathing rebuke.

A spiritual man recognises this, a fleshly man doesn't
A fleshly man's focus is his piety, ie what he must do and not do, living in that space with plenty of advice re what others must do. A spiritual man's focus is on God's kindness and lives in that space. He has good news to share and advice is reserved for when it is solicited.

Despite all that pontificating, you failed to understand or apply Romans 8:1–4 in your reasoning. What is standing between you and Apostolic truth?

I put to you it isn't the Word of God which is at fault.

 

[Hiddenthings]

If Hymenaeus and Alexander were members of this forum, I suggest they too would respond to their false teachings with ‘loving eyes'.​

 

[quietthinker]

Despite all that pontificating, you failed to understand or apply Romans 8:1–4 in your reasoning. What is standing between you and Apostolic truth?

I put to you it isn't the Word of God which is at fault.

I put to you your love of debate in favour of understanding!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I put to you your love of debate in favour of understanding!

‘Loving truth more than indulging in your foolishness'

You show no shame in ignoring the actual text in favor of your own imagination. It's so blatant, I wonder if you can see it.

 

[quietthinker]

View attachment 75371

If Hymenaeus and Alexander were members of this forum, I suggest they too would respond to their false teachings with ‘loving eyes'.​

Criticism of the best intentions appears to be your go to. Responses of this nature determines for me the spirit operative.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Criticism of the best intentions appears to be your go to. Responses of this nature determines for me the spirit operative.

You each have a partner in error, or perhaps you take turns leading one another into it. You both revel in the same mistakes, and when pressed to engage with the actual Word, you retreat into your own musings.

We have a Scriptural precedent of two individuals being handed over to the flesh so they could be rebuked and come to understand the truth.

Enough people here now recognize your error, so you are speaking into a vacuum, admired only by those who are inclined to see your wisdom.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Criticism of the best intentions appears to be your go to. Responses of this nature determines for me the spirit operative.

Paul exhorts us to ‘prove all things,’ and truly, it is a noble pursuit to undertake.

If you would like to try it let me know...I'm always keen to allow the Light to shine!

 

[quietthinker]

You each have a partner in error, or perhaps you take turns leading one another into it. You both revel in the same mistakes, and when pressed to engage with the actual Word, you retreat into your own musings.

We have a Scriptural precedent of two individuals being handed over to the flesh so they could be rebuked and come to understand the truth.

Enough people here now recognize your error, so you are speaking into a vacuum, admired only by those who are inclined to see your wisdom.

You appeal to the majority as if it were a measure of accuracy. Will it work for you is the question?
Your confidence in your unashamed judgement is the pointer to self righteousness; it draws no admiration or resonance from this brown duck.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You appeal to the majority as if it were a measure of accuracy.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed Quiet - I'm a Christadelphian and have almost nothing in common with traditional Christians.

Will it work for you is the question?

On this topic I am in agreement with every Apostle and the Lord Jesus himself.

Your confidence in your unashamed judgement is the pointer to self righteousness; it draws no admiration or resonance from this brown duck.

If that is your perception, you have failed to understand my motives clearly. Yet your refusal to engage with Romans 8:1 after being shown your error speaks volumes about your pride.