What makes any given branch of Christianity an authority over my life?

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StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
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KingJ said:
Barrd and Stan calm down please. This thread was a good read until the last two pages. Stan your replies here are pushing the envelope.

@StanJ you said 'apostles' is mentioned 8 times. Can you provide these scriptures where the context is not as Marksman proposed. Paul the apostle vs Apsotle Paul.

Marksman is making a valid point with titles. I don't believe it is a major issue all the time. As scripture does say study to show yourself approved.
Why do you think I'm NOT calm KJ? If you have a problem with my replies then report them, but as far as I'm concerned they are justified given the nature of the posts themselves. If you're expecting perfection you've come to the wrong place, and I don't claim to be perfect as some do.

I think it is up to you to search out what I say and refute it if you feel I was wrong. I'm not about to help you make an argument against myself. :huh:

Then I suggest you show HOW he is, or did you actually read all his posts in THAT regard? He does tend to equivocate about details IMO.
 

StanJ

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KingJ said:
All the titles today are a new age thing. Prophets and doctors. Its good to study and get a phd. But if any profession requires you to keep that from your name its this. It should go without mentioning. Vanity is satanism not Christianity.

A prophet' who gets ONE prophecy wrong is a false prophet. So many prophets today should take a vow of silence.
That's pretty broad and general. Got any specific titles in mind? Vanity is an every day human emotion/problem and needs to be dealt with in ALL our lives. It has nothing to do with Satanism, and THAT is a purely exaggerated assertion.

You have to actually identify where prophecies are false and not just broadly assert it.
 

StanJ

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brakelite said:
I see Barrd that the only point you had doubts over was the trinity. Did you know that the primitive apostolic church, that is the one that existed before the inroads of papal error were generally consistent in their agreement that Jesus was a literal Son of His Father as attested to in scripture? Even Ulfilas, who evangelised the entire Gothic nation believed this, and believed also that because Jesus was God's Son, therefore He inherited the same nature as His Father, thus making Him divine...deity...God. The epithet "Aryan", foisted upon those true Christian believers by the papal power, and destroyed by them also, was a disparaging term suggesting they did not believe in the divinity of Christ. This was a lie. Ulfilas' teachings are still with us, unlike those of the original Arius (we have to take the papacy at their word concerning what Arius believed precisely because they destroyed all records of his teachings...can we really rely on someones enemy to tell us the truth about whom they condemned) ? So we know what Ulfilas taught...he taught apostolic Christianity, and that is what he passed on to the Goths. One must question why the Goths became such bitter enemies of Rome, and why the other "Arian" powers , the Vandals or Carthaginians of North Africa and the Heruli, were also vanquished and destroyed by secular forces in league with the Roman bishop.
Not trying to change the subject, but the trinity, and sunday sacredness, came about within 3 years of one another...both by Roman infuence, and all opposition to both teachings were labelled heretic. This to my mind is simply another very good reason to reject the idea of submission to any human authority in matters of conscience.
So do you NOT accept the Triune nature of God?

This should be a very simple one word answer, so please don't go getting all onerous on us.
 
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brakelite

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StanJ said:
Why bring up the RCC? You seem to have problem with them, and we are not discussing them?
The discussion topic as per the headline was 'what gives any branch of Christianity an authority over my life"...I appreciate this isn't exclusively about the RCC, however, history and RCC dogma and doctrine overwhelmingly reveals Rome as the epitome of a church which claims that all ought to submit to her authority. But it is true Stan that the principles why we ought not to submit to Rome, apply to any church 'authority'. At least from my perspective anyway.
However, desiring to be a member (as I am) of a particular communion of believers on account of shared beliefs, does require a certain amount of willingness to adhere to that group's ummm, how shall I say...'disciplinary procedures' should I not live according to that group's norm of lifestyle. Bringing disrepute to that group who you may believe to be God's (not necessarily sole) representative for sharing the gospel hurts not just their cause, but God's also. For example, living in an adulterous relationship and preaching or teaching the word does not mix. The church must have the right to discipline or remove one from certainly ministry, and if refusing to submit to the counsel as per Biblical procedure, disfellowshiped. All churches of course have different ways of handling this...some being more lenient or tolerant while others far more strict and severe. I agree with this sphere of church authority. It is vital to keep church members on the same page.
But the spiritual authority that Rome claims is far more advanced and all-encompassing than the above.
 
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brakelite

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StanJ said:
So do you NOT accept the Triune nature of God?

This should be a very simple one word answer, so please don't go getting all onerous on us.
Not in the traditional sense of three co-equal co-eternal con-substantial persons, no, I do not.
 
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brakelite

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The Barrd said:
I'm sorry I was unclear, then, Brakelite.
I believe that Jesus is God made manifest in the flesh. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter sent to us...as Jesus said, He would not leave us comfortless...He would come to us.
This is going off topic Barrd, mind if I pursue this in another thread?
 

StanJ

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May 13, 2014
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The discussion topic as per the headline was 'what gives any branch of Christianity an authority over my life"...I appreciate this isn't exclusively about the RCC, however, history and RCC dogma and doctrine overwhelmingly reveals Rome as the epitome of a church which claims that all ought to submit to her authority. But it is true Stan that the principles why we ought not to submit to Rome, apply to any church 'authority'. At least from my perspective anyway.
However, desiring to be a member (as I am) of a particular communion of believers on account of shared beliefs, does require a certain amount of willingness to adhere to that group's ummm, how shall I say...'disciplinary procedures' should I not live according to that group's norm of lifestyle. Bringing disrepute to that group who you may believe to be God's (not necessarily sole) representative for sharing the gospel hurts not just their cause, but God's also. For example, living in an adulterous relationship and preaching or teaching the word does not mix. The church must have the right to discipline or remove one from certainly ministry, and if refusing to submit to the counsel as per Biblical procedure, disfellowshiped. All churches of course have different ways of handling this...some being more lenient or tolerant while others far more strict and severe. I agree with this sphere of church authority. It is vital to keep church members on the same page.
But the spiritual authority that Rome claims is far more advanced and all-encompassing than the above.
I get all that, but as you are NOT RCC, and they weren't really being discussed, I fail to see any reason for posting the way you have, except to vent against them. You may find kepha31 a more suitable person to debate with, given her inculcation into the RCC.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Not in the traditional sense of three co-equal co-eternal con-substantial persons, no, I do not.
That's what I thought, so maybe you should post that POV also on another more applicable thread, although I'm pretty sure this is not an acceptable topic on CB.
 

heretoeternity

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brakelite said:
Not in the traditional sense of three co-equal co-eternal con-substantial persons, no, I do no


Right on Brakelite...you got it...
The Roman church/religious system is relevant because the vast majority of todays "christianity" is based on the Romans system...(without the statues)...the change of the seventh day sabbath to sunday, the introduction of pagan based non Biblical days such as dec 25th,easter are all established based on "papal decree"..the majority of "christians" embrace this even though is is clearly sin, and defies the instructions of God to neither add or subtract to the words of God in the Bible..Revelation 22 and Deut 4....
In summary, it is not a good idea to give any branch of "christianity" the authority over our spiritual life for this reason...it is up to the individual to follow the word of God for himself, and quit trying to mold the Bible into one's false preconceived ideas which follow the false based teachings of mainstream "christianity".
 
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brakelite

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heretoeternity said:
Right on Brakelite...you got it...
The Roman church/religious system is relevant because the vast majority of todays "christianity" is based on the Romans system...(without the statues)...the change of the seventh day sabbath to sunday, the introduction of pagan based non Biblical days such as dec 25th,easter are all established based on "papal decree"..the majority of "christians" embrace this even though is is clearly sin, and defies the instructions of God to neither add or subtract to the words of God in the Bible..Revelation 22 and Deut 4....
In summary, it is not a good idea to give any branch of "christianity" the authority over our spiritual life for this reason...it is up to the individual to follow the word of God for himself, and quit trying to mold the Bible into one's false preconceived ideas which follow the false based teachings of mainstream "christianity".
The RCC claims the trinity as being the foundational doctrine for all of Rome's beliefs. That all other doctrines derive from the doctrine of the trinity. It worries me that the vast majority of Christendom accepts a foundational doctrine of the Antichrist as the basis for their understanding of the nature of God. When you get the foundations wrong, how can the building hold together?

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

A belief in the traditional trinity where all three are co-equal co-eternal con-substantial beings MUST BY DEFINITION be a denial of the Father and Son relationship. No Son, begotten as He was, can be co-eternal, nor can He be co-equal in the same essence of the Father from whom He derived all things. And certainly belief in a metaphorical Father/Son relationship equates to a denial of the Father and Son.

This is an important doctrine to get right. We cannot rely on the church traditional teaching when our eternal destiny depends on it.
 

Barrd

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StanJ said:
I get all that, but as you are NOT RCC, and they weren't really being discussed, I fail to see any reason for posting the way you have, except to vent against them. You may find kepha31 a more suitable person to debate with, given her inculcation into the RCC.
I believe Kepha is a him, not a her.
 

marksman

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The Barrd said:
So, you really aren't interested in helping anyone else to learn?
That doesn't sound much like a Christian attitude.
More like a dog in the manger...
I don't waste my time with people who don't want to learn.
 

marksman

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KingJ said:
Barrd and Stan calm down please. This thread was a good read until the last two pages. Stan your replies here are pushing the envelope.

@StanJ you said 'apostles' is mentioned 8 times. Can you provide these scriptures where the context is not as Marksman proposed. Paul the apostle vs Apsotle Paul.

Marksman is making a valid point with titles. I don't believe it is a major issue all the time. As scripture does say study to show yourself approved.

@Marksman I am just curious. Why does the title 'pastor' bother you? I feel pastor is fine. I believe there were many years in many churches where a ministering pastor was appointed by the elders. Perhaps title vs office?
At last a question without a snide comment or accusation. Praise the Lord!

In the original Greek there is no such word as pastor in the scriptures. In Ephesians 4:11 the word is shepherd. In Timothy the Elders who were the leaders of the local church, had a role that includes shepherding. The local church included the other four ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11.

Generally speaking the church has ignored the teaching of Ephesians 4 and Timothy and have invoked the title of pastor for the person who leads the church. Nine times out of ten he is no more a pastor (shepherd) that the man in the moon. Most of the time he is the CEO of an organisation.

​As a result, the members are left to fend for themselves as neither do they have a shepherd or any of the other four ministries. When that happens, the church becomes organisation oriented not people oriented and when that happens research shows the church will not grow.

​If Jesus gave us five ministries to grow the flock and lead them into maturity, it is obvious that this is not going to happen when you only have one and he is not doing a very good job because he is not allowed to.

​The church needs to ditch its one man paid pastor (CEO) methodology and start implementing a five fold ministry and let the Elders run the church on a day to day basis.
 
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marksman

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The Barrd said:
The post was in the thread "Slain in the Spirit". I can't find the original, but here is where someone else quoted him.
#268886 SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?

It's been an ongoing battle that has encompassed at least three different threads, King.
Frankly, I'm thinking that Stan and I would both be wiser not to respond to him any more.
Can't help yourself can you because you always like to have the last word.